Was M*A*S*H Too Preachy About Anti-War? - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Brian Damage · 12-27-2010, 08:15 PM

As good as Alan Alda And Mike Farrell were on the show, they had a certain stance on the Vietnam war and used their beliefs to change scripts and direct episodes. Do you think *Perhaps* M*A*S*H became a bit too preachy by the end of the series?

Marvo301 · 12-27-2010, 10:28 PM

In the latter seasons after Alan Alda became more involved behind the camera the show definitely got a lot more preachy!

Retro4Life · 12-27-2010, 10:33 PM

It never bothered me when the show was on, mostly because I always associated the show with Vietnam (as we were supposed to, I believe) and that was such an unpopular war. But as I look back...yeah, it got pretty slanted (though it was never very balanced to begin with).

Too much so? Maybe. It might have been interesting to have had a more pro military character that wasn't a total moron/cretin like Burns or a repressed control freak like Margaret (though she did evolve), just to give the show balance and Hawk and B.J. more of a challenge.

Miss Lisa · 12-28-2010, 05:15 PM

Well, if any of you have ever read anything I had to say about MASH I think you already know what my answer is, and that is a yes. It wasn't bad until the last few seasons when the show stopped being funny and started focusing more on the bad parts of war. I mean, there are a few things that I agree with Alan Alda about, but he made Hawkeye out to be more whiny than anything, and I would rather not sit there for a half hour to hear someone whine about something and then have them come out to be the hero in the end.

They did convey the same message through out the entire show, it was shown in different formats. The first part of the show was through making fun of people in charge and showing how ridculous everything was but then when Alan Alda and Mike Farrell took charge it was through Hawkeye's morals and ideals and how he was right when everyone else was wrong.

treky · 12-29-2010, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Lisa

Well, if any of you have ever read anything I had to say about MASH I think you already know what my answer is, and that is a yes. It wasn't bad until the last few seasons when the show stopped being funny and started focusing more on the bad parts of war. I mean, there are a few things that I agree with Alan Alda about, but he made Hawkeye out to be more whiny than anything, and I would rather not sit there for a half hour to hear someone whine about something and then have them come out to be the hero in the end.

They did convey the same message through out the entire show, it was shown in different formats. The first part of the show was through making fun of people in charge and showing how ridculous everything was but then when Alan Alda and Mike Farrell took charge it was through Hawkeye's morals and ideals and how he was right when everyone else was wrong.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: someone made a HUUUGE mistake when they let Alan Alda take over the writing & directing!!!

catlover79 · 12-29-2010, 05:00 AM

Once Wayne Rogers was out and Alan Alda took more and more control of the show, then it became WAY too preachy!!

biffbronson · 12-29-2010, 09:14 AM

One thing that kind of bugged me, and seemed to be more prevalent in the later seasons, was when everyone seemed to forget that the show was set in the early 1950s. Were there actually officers who looked like B.J. (wild moustache) or Margaret (late '70s - early '80s hairstyle) back then? I doubt it.

My point is that as the writers and cast felt more and more removed from the early '50s setting, it seems like they felt more free to interject later ideologies and more modern ways of looking at things into the series -- costing M*A*S*H a sense of authenticity it should have had.

When you see plastic talcum containers (they were steel back then) or a visible bar code on a Hershey bar (not in use until the '70s) in the Swamp, it's an indicator to me that some just didn't care about keeping the setting back where it was supposed to be.

Dr. Thong · 12-29-2010, 10:56 AM

Or how about Radar reading Avengers comic books when the Avengers didn't come out until the 1960s?

In the episode "Peace On Us," when Hawkeye commandeers a jeep and goes to the peace talks, offering his commentary about the war and how they need to stop it, it's unreleastic to me. Because he would have been arrested on the spot for invading a meeting and editiorializing in such a manner.

Indeed, Hawkeye (as well as Trapper and B.J.) made comments to and in front of generals and military brass that would have gotten them at the very least reprimanded, if not thrown in a military prison.

And yes, the long haircuts would not have been allowed in the army. They all would have had crew cuts and not been allowed to wear civilian clothes. I love the show, but I do agree it got too preachy. I think it went on a couple of seasons too long, IMO.

catlover79 · 12-29-2010, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biffbronson

When you see plastic talcum containers (they were steel back then) or a visible bar code on a Hershey bar (not in use until the '70s) in the Swamp, it's an indicator to me that some just didn't care about keeping the setting back where it was supposed to be.

I call that the Happy Days Syndrome (and sheer laziness)!

Miss Lisa · 12-29-2010, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Thong

Or how about Radar reading Avengers comic books when the Avengers didn't come out until the 1960s?

In the episode "Peace On Us," when Hawkeye commandeers a jeep and goes to the peace talks, offering his commentary about the war and how they need to stop it, it's unreleastic to me. Because he would have been arrested on the spot for invading a meeting and editiorializing in such a manner.

Indeed, Hawkeye (as well as Trapper and B.J.) made comments to and in front of generals and military brass that would have gotten them at the very least reprimanded, if not thrown in a military prison.

And yes, the long haircuts would not have been allowed in the army. They all would have had crew cuts and not been allowed to wear civilian clothes. I love the show, but I do agree it got too preachy. I think it went on a couple of seasons too long, IMO.

I agree. That's what turned my Dad off from the show, he told me that there is no way anyone would ever get away with pulling any stunts like that, and then come back to a party. If anything Potter should have been pissed at him. Either way though, all it became was Alan Alda's half hour to show you what he thought the world should be like. I think he stopped caring as to whether or not it was realistic, or simply lost touch with reality.

Dr. Thong · 12-30-2010, 09:54 AM

Don't get me wrong -- I love the show. It's my all-time favorite. But sometimes the lapses of reality make me go "Um, riiiight."

The disrespect they showed to visiting generals and brass would have gotten their asses kicked. They probably would have done time in the stockade at the very least.

We all knew the show was about war and that war was not pretty or fun. But we don't need 30 minutes of preaching about it, either.

biffbronson · 12-30-2010, 10:13 AM

I'm a big fan as well -- maybe it's because I've watched most episodes many multiples of times that I'm on the lookout for anachronisms, or whatever you call inconsistencies with the time period being portrayed. Thanks for the ones you've added.

I just think its odd sometimes that a red flag didn't go up when props made of plastic were introduced -- so much was still common in glass and metal in the '50s. One that I've noticed on other series: Ordinary prescription bottles, sometimes seen in modern plastic packaging. Even later series like That '70s Show used syrup and mustard bottles that were not period. I have stuff out in my garage that is appropriate for those years, like the old glass French's pump-top mustard jar...!

Getting back on topic, I think Dr. Thong's statement is well-said regarding 30 mins. of propaganda-type approach -- not appropriate for dramedy even, IMO, let alone comedy series.

treky · 12-30-2010, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biffbronson

One thing that kind of bugged me, and seemed to be more prevalent in the later seasons, was when everyone seemed to forget that the show was set in the early 1950s. Were there actually officers who looked like B.J. (wild moustache) or Margaret (late '70s - early '80s hairstyle) back then? I doubt it.

My point is that as the writers and cast felt more and more removed from the early '50s setting, it seems like they felt more free to interject later ideologies and more modern ways of looking at things into the series -- costing M*A*S*H a sense of authenticity it should have had.

When you see plastic talcum containers (they were steel back then) or a visible bar code on a Hershey bar (not in use until the '70s) in the Swamp, it's an indicator to me that some just didn't care about keeping the setting back where it was supposed to be.

how about the time Radar did an impression of John Watne in a scene from the movie "McCLINTOCK" which didn't come out until the early 60s????

LUNCH · 01-02-2011, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treky

I've said it before and I'll say it again: someone made a HUUUGE mistake when they let Alan Alda take over the writing & directing!!!

I basically agree.And also the funny part is Alan Alda and especially Mike Farrell were the weakest actors on the show too.They were not bad,but the other members of the cast were better.MASH still managed to be a great show during all it's seasons.However the later episodes, especially the last 3 seasons while they were good when the show originally ran ,for various reasons don't hold up as well as the earlier episodes in re-runs.

Sitcom Collector · 01-11-2011, 08:04 AM

When I was younger I liked the show, but as I got older I began to see the basic flaws that brought it to an end.
The best anti-war tv sitcom, IMHO, is Blackadder Goes Forth. Up to the final five minutes of that series it was pure comedy. Only in the last few minutes of the series did it become suddenly and without warning, dramatic. THAT is what made the final scene in BAG4 so powerful.
MASH sort of did that with the first three years ending with Henry's death. If they had ended the show after that, it would have had a far greater impact.
But they chose instead to go on for another eight years into a preachy pit that actually grew UNINTENTIONALLY funny in its later years.
Apologies to fans of those years, but the final years of MASH, including the final episode, are almost physical torture to watch.

12-27-2010, 08:15 PM	#1
Brian Damage I'm Rich Bitch Forum Icon Join Date: Feb 03, 2002 Location: What Ain't No Country I Ever Heard Of...They Speak English in What? Posts: 63,107	*Was MASH Too Preachy About Anti-War?** As good as Alan Alda And Mike Farrell were on the show, they had a certain stance on the Vietnam war and used their beliefs to change scripts and direct episodes. Do you think Perhaps MAS*H became a bit too preachy by the end of the series?
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12-27-2010, 10:28 PM	#2
Marvo301 I'm NOT a Blockhead! Forum Celebrity Join Date: May 17, 2002 Location: The Great White North Posts: 21,460	In the latter seasons after Alan Alda became more involved behind the camera the show definitely got a lot more preachy!
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12-27-2010, 10:33 PM	#3
Retro4Life Accept No Substitutes Forum Veteran Join Date: Feb 04, 2009 Location: IL Posts: 6,708	It never bothered me when the show was on, mostly because I always associated the show with Vietnam (as we were supposed to, I believe) and that was such an unpopular war. But as I look back...yeah, it got pretty slanted (though it was never very balanced to begin with). Too much so? Maybe. It might have been interesting to have had a more pro military character that wasn't a total moron/cretin like Burns or a repressed control freak like Margaret (though she did evolve), just to give the show balance and Hawk and B.J. more of a challenge.
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12-28-2010, 05:15 PM	#4
Miss Lisa Member Senior Member Join Date: Jan 08, 2005 Location: My very own Green Acres Posts: 1,113	Well, if any of you have ever read anything I had to say about MASH I think you already know what my answer is, and that is a yes. It wasn't bad until the last few seasons when the show stopped being funny and started focusing more on the bad parts of war. I mean, there are a few things that I agree with Alan Alda about, but he made Hawkeye out to be more whiny than anything, and I would rather not sit there for a half hour to hear someone whine about something and then have them come out to be the hero in the end. They did convey the same message through out the entire show, it was shown in different formats. The first part of the show was through making fun of people in charge and showing how ridculous everything was but then when Alan Alda and Mike Farrell took charge it was through Hawkeye's morals and ideals and how he was right when everyone else was wrong.
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12-29-2010, 05:00 AM	#6
catlover79 God Bless Val Forum Addict Join Date: May 29, 2006 Location: Bewitched in Ohio Posts: 70,392	Once Wayne Rogers was out and Alan Alda took more and more control of the show, then it became WAY too preachy!!
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12-29-2010, 09:14 AM	#7
biffbronson Sentimental Fool Forum Star Join Date: Aug 22, 2009 Location: Near Notre Dame Posts: 10,510	One thing that kind of bugged me, and seemed to be more prevalent in the later seasons, was when everyone seemed to forget that the show was set in the early 1950s. Were there actually officers who looked like B.J. (wild moustache) or Margaret (late '70s - early '80s hairstyle) back then? I doubt it. My point is that as the writers and cast felt more and more removed from the early '50s setting, it seems like they felt more free to interject later ideologies and more modern ways of looking at things into the series -- costing MAS*H a sense of authenticity it should have had. When you see plastic talcum containers (they were steel back then) or a visible bar code on a Hershey bar (not in use until the '70s) in the Swamp, it's an indicator to me that some just didn't care about keeping the setting back where it was supposed to be.
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12-29-2010, 10:56 AM	#8
Dr. Thong a/k/a "ACK!" Forum Veteran Join Date: Jul 10, 2001 Location: New Hampshire, USA Posts: 5,546	Or how about Radar reading Avengers comic books when the Avengers didn't come out until the 1960s? In the episode "Peace On Us," when Hawkeye commandeers a jeep and goes to the peace talks, offering his commentary about the war and how they need to stop it, it's unreleastic to me. Because he would have been arrested on the spot for invading a meeting and editiorializing in such a manner. Indeed, Hawkeye (as well as Trapper and B.J.) made comments to and in front of generals and military brass that would have gotten them at the very least reprimanded, if not thrown in a military prison. And yes, the long haircuts would not have been allowed in the army. They all would have had crew cuts and not been allowed to wear civilian clothes. I love the show, but I do agree it got too preachy. I think it went on a couple of seasons too long, IMO.
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12-30-2010, 09:54 AM	#11
Dr. Thong a/k/a "ACK!" Forum Veteran Join Date: Jul 10, 2001 Location: New Hampshire, USA Posts: 5,546	Don't get me wrong -- I love the show. It's my all-time favorite. But sometimes the lapses of reality make me go "Um, riiiight." The disrespect they showed to visiting generals and brass would have gotten their asses kicked. They probably would have done time in the stockade at the very least. We all knew the show was about war and that war was not pretty or fun. But we don't need 30 minutes of preaching about it, either.

12-30-2010, 10:13 AM	#12
biffbronson Sentimental Fool Forum Star Join Date: Aug 22, 2009 Location: Near Notre Dame Posts: 10,510	I'm a big fan as well -- maybe it's because I've watched most episodes many multiples of times that I'm on the lookout for anachronisms, or whatever you call inconsistencies with the time period being portrayed. Thanks for the ones you've added. I just think its odd sometimes that a red flag didn't go up when props made of plastic were introduced -- so much was still common in glass and metal in the '50s. One that I've noticed on other series: Ordinary prescription bottles, sometimes seen in modern plastic packaging. Even later series like That '70s Show used syrup and mustard bottles that were not period. I have stuff out in my garage that is appropriate for those years, like the old glass French's pump-top mustard jar...! Getting back on topic, I think Dr. Thong's statement is well-said regarding 30 mins. of propaganda-type approach -- not appropriate for dramedy even, IMO, let alone comedy series.

01-11-2011, 08:04 AM	#15
Sitcom Collector Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Nov 12, 2010 Posts: 31	When I was younger I liked the show, but as I got older I began to see the basic flaws that brought it to an end. The best anti-war tv sitcom, IMHO, is Blackadder Goes Forth. Up to the final five minutes of that series it was pure comedy. Only in the last few minutes of the series did it become suddenly and without warning, dramatic. THAT is what made the final scene in BAG4 so powerful. MASH sort of did that with the first three years ending with Henry's death. If they had ended the show after that, it would have had a far greater impact. But they chose instead to go on for another eight years into a preachy pit that actually grew UNINTENTIONALLY funny in its later years. Apologies to fans of those years, but the final years of MASH, including the final episode, are almost physical torture to watch.