Dorothy Allison: True Psychic or Not?

[JackKerouac1989]

She was the housewife from New Jersey who was a psychic that helped the police and family members in several unsolved cases.
I know there is alot of skepticism concerning psychics and I don't blame people for being that way, but I actually do feel this woman was genuine.
There are so many people that claim to be psychics in an attempt to gain either attention or money.
Dorothy never profitted from her abilities or ever charged anyone for help.
She was also a quiet unassuming person and not someone who was fame hungry or selfish.
I actually remember in the UM segment that the mother who came to her concerning her missing daughter was suprised at how normal Dorothy was because she didn't act weird or anything.
I do believe there are psychics who are genuine and do have special abilities that are difficult to comprehend.
Anyone else have any opinions on her?

[egswanso]

Dorothy Allison was certainly more reputable then most of the self-proclaimed "psychic" con artists, but, like all the rest, nothing suggests she had any actual abilities.

I do believe she meant well, however, her use of psychics by L/E does come at a cost, of manpower, time, and money spent going down blind alleys. She failed at many of the "cases" she "consulted" on (most of which she just showed up on, not having been requested), including such notable failures as Patty Hearst, JonBenet Ramsey, Son of Sam, and the Atlanta child murderer. Her "successes" are generally vague and retrofitted.

And while she didn't charge the families, she did benefit from the exposure and publicity, which helped sell her books and make her money.

In the end, I see her as generally honest, but misguided. Given most of the field, that's fairly unique, but it doesn't make her psychic.

[Janel "Jaycee" Miller]

Here is an article about the case in Maryland that Dorothy Allison was asked to investigate:


http://www.herald-mail.com/?cmd=disp...21&format=html

There is also a thread on this message board called (I think) "Laurie Zimmerman" that backs up a lot of the points in this article.

On a somewhat similar note, I remember watching the Dorothy Allison case as a little girl when it originally aired. Growing up in central NJ, I had a lot of friends whose parents took the same trains to and from NYC as the NYC banker. I remember being scared one of them would fall asleep and fall off the train into the river too.

Wasn't there a much later episode of UM where the editor of "Skeptic" magazine totally trashed psychics? The psychic profiled was a male, who told the parents of a murder victim he saw the letter K and was talking to their dead son. However, the skeptic pointed out, one of the parents was wearing a K charm. If I remember right this same psychic was the inspiration for the CBS show "Ghost Whisperer"? Psychic's name was Eric Von Praaugh, something like that ????

[TracyLynnS]

Originally Posted by Love A Good Mystery

Wasn't there a much later episode of UM where the editor of "Skeptic" magazine totally trashed psychics? The psychic profiled was a male, who told the parents of a murder victim he saw the letter K and was talking to their dead son. However, the skeptic pointed out, one of the parents was wearing a K charm. If I remember right this same psychic was the inspiration for the CBS show "Ghost Whisperer"? Psychic's name was Eric Von Praaugh, something like that ????

I remember a bit about this one. The skeptic guy (michael shermer, I think) is the editor or publisher of skeptic.com. I believe some of his theories and disagree with others.

As for his stance on this particular psychic, I think he's completely right. IIRC, he said something about the family member wearing a "K" necklace and the psychic guy just started guessing what the popular "K" names were for young men, Ken, Kevin, etc, until he got it right. IMO, he's a conman (and worse) who makes his fame and fortune off of the desperation, misery, and grief of other people.

[Eire]

Originally Posted by Love A Good Mystery

Here is an article about the case in Maryland that Dorothy Allison was asked to investigate:


http://www.herald-mail.com/?cmd=disp...21&format=html

There is also a thread on this message board called (I think) "Laurie Zimmerman" that backs up a lot of the points in this article.

On a somewhat similar note, I remember watching the Dorothy Allison case as a little girl when it originally aired. Growing up in central NJ, I had a lot of friends whose parents took the same trains to and from NYC as the NYC banker. I remember being scared one of them would fall asleep and fall off the train into the river too.

Wasn't there a much later episode of UM where the editor of "Skeptic" magazine totally trashed psychics? The psychic profiled was a male, who told the parents of a murder victim he saw the letter K and was talking to their dead son. However, the skeptic pointed out, one of the parents was wearing a K charm. If I remember right this same psychic was the inspiration for the CBS show "Ghost Whisperer"? Psychic's name was Eric Von Praaugh, something like that ????

What you have there is your basic "cold reading." That's conman speak for throwing stuff against the wall and seeing what sticks. They start off vague like that "I'm talking to someone with a K in their name" hoping to get a hit. He noticed the charm and that was all she wrote.

Von Praug or however you spell his name has been debunked many times over. Same with Sylvia Brown. I know people love her,but her track record is horrible. She pulls the same type of scam and charges outrageous fees for her "gift."

As you can tell, I am not a huge fan of psychic media-grabbers. They only want one thing and that's to feather their own nests.

[TracyLynnS]

Originally Posted by JackKerouac1989

I know there is alot of skepticism concerning psychics and I don't blame people for being that way, but I actually do feel this woman was genuine. Anyone else have any opinions on her?

I watched this segment today. I don't think the copy I have is in it's original entirety, but based on what was presented, it's my opinion that Dorothy Alison actually had some kind of psychic ability. (And I tend to not believe "psychics", especially since IMO so many of them like James Van Praagh and Sylvia Browne are frauds.)

It doesn't seem that Dorothy Alison was really of too much help in solving crimes or disappearances. As with many psychics, her info was usually verified after the fact. In one case, she said that a school and the number 8 factored into a child's disappearance. The child's body was eventually found by public school #8. But other stuff, such as the color of his clothing and the fact that his shoes were on the wrong feet were a bit surprising.

It's very possible that she could have read in the paper about what the missing boy was wearing, and just repeated this info as her "psychic vision", but his shoes being on the wrong feet seems like a pretty difficult thing to come up with out of nowhere.

I suppose she could have guessed that info, considering the boy was about 5 years old, and kids that age often put their shoes on the wrong feet, but that part of her prediction struck me as real, as did some of her other info on the rest of the cases profiled in the segment.

[Apostapler]

Originally Posted by TracyLynnS

I watched this segment today. I don't think the copy I have is in it's original entirety, but based on what was presented, it's my opinion that Dorothy Alison actually had some kind of psychic ability. (And I tend to not believe "psychics", especially since IMO so many of them like James Van Praagh and Sylvia Browne are frauds.)

It doesn't seem that Dorothy Alison was really of too much help in solving crimes or disappearances. As with many psychics, her info was usually verified after the fact. In one case, she said that a school and the number 8 factored into a child's disappearance. The child's body was eventually found by public school #8. But other stuff, such as the color of his clothing and the fact that his shoes were on the wrong feet were a bit surprising.

It's very possible that she could have read in the paper about what the missing boy was wearing, and just repeated this info as her "psychic vision", but his shoes being on the wrong feet seems like a pretty difficult thing to come up with out of nowhere.

I suppose she could have guessed that info, considering the boy was about 5 years old, and kids that age often put their shoes on the wrong feet, but that part of her prediction struck me as real, as did some of her other info on the rest of the cases profiled in the segment.

I agree with your opinion. Instead of making wild claims, she had miniscule details and never claimed she would solve the cases or that she had all the answers. But the things she did come up with were so weird and yet verifiable. It made her seem more genuine to me.

[Smokescreen]

Hey gang,

Been away for awhile but thought I'd check out the boards

Anyway,

Yeah the Dorothy Allison segment I just never bought into

Although, I would like to figure out the missing shoes deal - there's gotta be some reason to that claim. That's really interesting

I'm not a fan of "psychics" -I understand how some people want to help and think they're helping but really, they're not and so far, to date it's all just made up

Don't get me wrong, I want to believe -but I need facts based in reality


Plus, Michael Shermer's kind of a personal hero of mine, lol

Anyhoo, just my two cents

[sdb4884]

Her preminitions were certainly amazing. More belivable than the other psychics

[cocytus]

Originally Posted by sdb4884

Her preminitions were certainly amazing. More belivable than the other psychics

Actually, a "premonition" would be a viewing of something that has yet to happen. Dorothy Allison only claims to "view" what has already happened.

Having said all of that, I don't believe in psychics as they have yet to prove that they have their "abilities" in a controlled, scientific environment.

[TracyLynnS]

Originally Posted by cocytus

Actually, a "premonition" would be a viewing of something that has yet to happen. Dorothy Allison only claims to "view" what has already happened.

In the case of the 5 year old boy who drowned, she claimed to have a premonition of what would happen two hours before it actually did happen. IIRC, in the other cases shown her information only came after the event took place.

[cocytus]

Originally Posted by TracyLynnS

In the case of the 5 year old boy who drowned, she claimed to have a premonition of what would happen two hours before it actually did happen. IIRC, in the other cases shown her information only came after the event took place.

I wasn't aware of that. But where's the record (other than her word) that this really occurred? And if she "knew" that this was going to happen, why didn't she tell someone and prevent it?

Not wanting to sound ghoulish, but anybody can claim a child is going to die on a certain day and in a certain manner and be mostly correct about it. Enough children (unfortunately) die each day to make even a random guess possible.

[TracyLynnS]

Originally Posted by cocytus

I wasn't aware of that. But where's the record (other than her word) that this really occurred? And if she "knew" that this was going to happen, why didn't she tell someone and prevent it?

Yep... that's what makes it so hard to prove her claims. IIRC, she only knew that a little boy was going to drown but didn't have enough information to know where, when, or who.

I don't know if she told anyone about her premonition at the time or if she told them after she got involved with the case.

I actually have this segment queued up next on my DVD. When I go to do my uspstairs chores today, I'll review the segment and see what she says about her premonition part of the little boy's death.

And just my own little rant, and I realize that this was 1967 and a whole different time, but what was that mom thinking? She sent her 5 year old and 7 year old outside in the winter, to play near a river that had recently become "rain swollen", unsupervised at about 7:30 in the morning. Were the kids supposed to be walking to school alone? Was it a day off of school, maybe a weekend or a holiday? I wonder what was going on with that.

And a sorta unrelated rant... the school the boy's body was found near, PS8, was built on the river front! Who could think it would be a good idea to build an elementary school right on the water? With so many kids milling around the schoolyard, it's just asking for one of them to run down to the river and drown. I'm surprised they had no tragedies related to that foolishness.

[cocytus]

Originally Posted by TracyLynnS

Yep... that's what makes it so hard to prove her claims. IIRC, she only knew that a little boy was going to drown but didn't have enough information to know where, when, or who.

I don't know if she told anyone about her premonition at the time or if she told them after she got involved with the case.

I actually have this segment queued up next on my DVD. When I go to do my uspstairs chores today, I'll review the segment and see what she says about her premonition part of the little boy's death.

And just my own little rant, and I realize that this was 1967 and a whole different time, but what was that mom thinking? She sent her 5 year old and 7 year old outside in the winter, to play near a river that had recently become "rain swollen", unsupervised at about 7:30 in the morning. Were the kids supposed to be walking to school alone? Was it a day off of school, maybe a weekend or a holiday? I wonder what was going on with that.

And a sorta unrelated rant... the school the boy's body was found near, PS8, was built on the river front! Who could think it would be a good idea to build an elementary school right on the water? With so many kids milling around the schoolyard, it's just asking for one of them to run down to the river and drown. I'm surprised they had no tragedies related to that foolishness.

Actually, there are three elementary schools in my area built on or across the street from some fairly deep rivers. Most places built schools where the land was cheap and thoughts of safety were secondary or even tertiary concerns.

My thing is this: what use is telling about a premonition AFTER the fact? In fact, anybody can say that they had a premonition after the event occurs; there would simply be no way to judge it accuracy or truthfulness.

Given that there are numerous means to test psychic "abilities", yet no psychics are willing to undergo these tests pretty much tells me that they either know they are frauds or strongly suspect it.

[TracyLynnS]

Okie dokie, I watched a bit of the segment.

The boys were playing by a rain swollen creek in early December 1967, I think they said 12/3, at 8:15am, when the boy fell in.

Dorothy claims to have had a dream more than two hours before, that foretold the death and included some details. The segment does not say if she told anyone about her dream so there's no proof (or even 2nd hand info) of the time she had her premonition.

She read in the newspaper about the boy going missing. One month after her premonition/his disappearance, she went to the police and told them her story, which included what the child was wearing, that his shoes were on the wrong feet, that he would be found on February 7th, and that somehow the numbers 8 and 120 figured into the case.

The segment mentions that even though the newspaper article did not contain a photo of the child, Dorothy was able to correctly tell the police what the child was wearing. This is where I'm getting suspicious.

If the article contained a photo of the child, it's very unlikely that he would be wearing the exact same clothing that he wore on the day he went missing so that would not have been any kind of clue to Dorothy.

The purpose of it being printed in the paper must have been to alert the public that there was a missing child. Because of that, it must have included a description of what the child was last seen wearing. This could be the source for Dorothy knowing that he was wearing a polo shirt, what color it was, the fact that he was wearing a lapel pin, etc.

What she got right, apparently without knowing ahead of time, was that 120 figured into the case (he was found at 1:20pm), that the number 8 was involved (he was found by PS#8), and that he would be found on February 7th, which he was.

She also got a few other small things right, like there was gold lettering on a building near where he would be found, and that his shoes were on the wrong feet. I think that one is pretty interesting, if it wasn't mentioned in the article. Especially because he was wearing galoshes, that were on the correct feet, over his regular shoes, which were on the wrong feet, so a casual observer would not notice the mix up.