Was Elizabeth Montgomery Really REPLACEABLE on 'Bewitched?' - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Brian Damage · 08-17-2010, 12:13 AM

I read an article where the writer slams Bewitched on other 60's sitcoms. Saying they were so "High concept" that really anybody could've played the roles. Agree? Disagree?

Here is a portion of that article...

In looking back at the rest of the sitcoms from the 1960s, especially the ‘high concept’ sort- like The Addams Family, The Munsters, My Mother The Car, Bewitched, I Dream Of Jeannie, My Favorite Martian, Green Acres, The Beverly Hillbillies, etc.- they all depended upon, well, the highness, so to speak, of their concept. I mean, were Barbara Eden or Elizabeth Montgomery really indispensable in their roles as a genie and witch? Could not either of them have been paired up with their male mates and basically have had the show’s premises been the same? Was Uncle Fester the reason anyone watched The Addams Family? No. All of the actors were replaceable.

catlover79 · 08-17-2010, 01:22 AM

If you look at the roles on paper, it may have seemed like anyone could've played the roles of the beautiful witch and genie. But Elizabeth Montgomery was the rock of Bewitched - as was Barbara Eden on "Jeannie". I can't imagine anyone else in the roles, but do wonder what Elizabeth would've been like as Jeannie and Barbara as Samantha.

I know that MickeyMac would love nothing more than to see Liz in a pink harem outfit!!!

Arfies · 08-17-2010, 05:23 AM

"I mean, were Barbara Eden or Elizabeth Montgomery really indispensable in their roles as a genie and witch?"

Frankly, yes. I can't speak for "I Dream of Jeannie," but I can for "Bewitched"- Elizabeth Montgomery was married to director Bill Asher (both came on as a package deal), and the two made a lot of changes to the pilot script and created the show as we know it today (including the "twitch.")

Even Dick York was, in hindsight, irreplaceable as Darrin. Heck, as soon as he left, the ratings dropped 13 places. There's the answer.

comedyfreak · 08-17-2010, 05:33 AM

We really can't say as they never were replaced and as some evidence suggested during the Darrin switch, Bewitched droped 13 places in ratings. The writer of the article doesn't know what he's talking about.

catlover79 · 08-17-2010, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arfies

"I mean, were Barbara Eden or Elizabeth Montgomery really indispensable in their roles as a genie and witch?"

Frankly, yes. I can't speak for "I Dream of Jeannie," but I can for "Bewitched"- Elizabeth Montgomery was married to director Bill Asher (both came on as a package deal), and the two made a lot of changes to the pilot script and created the show as we know it today (including the "twitch.")

Even Dick York was, in hindsight, irreplaceable as Darrin. Heck, as soon as he left, the ratings dropped 13 places. There's the answer.

I agree about Dick York 100%. No offense to Dick Sargent, who was a good actor in his own right, but he wasn't Darrin. Only Dick York was the real, true Darrin. Of course, that's MY opinion - your mileage may vary.

Torgo · 08-17-2010, 12:19 PM

All these shows worked because of the actors and their chemistry with one another. Granted with a show like Bewitched the chemistry with Liz and Sargent wasn't as strong as her and York, there was still enough there that worked. Also, all of these were great ensemble shows- did people watch Addams Family for Uncle Fester? No of course not they watched it for the entire cast. This is true for almost all sitcoms, even the so-called ones of today.

ansara1 · 08-17-2010, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arfies

"I mean, were Barbara Eden or Elizabeth Montgomery really indispensable in their roles as a genie and witch?"

Frankly, yes. I can't speak for "I Dream of Jeannie," but I can for "Bewitched"- Elizabeth Montgomery was married to director Bill Asher (both came on as a package deal), and the two made a lot of changes to the pilot script and created the show as we know it today (including the "twitch.")

Even Dick York was, in hindsight, irreplaceable as Darrin. Heck, as soon as he left, the ratings dropped 13 places. There's the answer.

No. They were NOT dispensable. Dick York is a good example. ...and even Nicole Kidman couldn't replace Elizabeth as Samantha (or in the case of the movie another witch playing Samantha). Just look at how that film bombed! And I CAN speak for Jeannie. Bill Daily put it best when he stated on Barbara Eden's A& E Biography, "Without Barbara that show could never have gone on the air. That 'note' she does is innocent, it's charming. To play clean, wholesome, sexy is a tough one." Sidney Sheldon tried out many brunette middle eastern types for the lead but could not find the unique qualities he was looking for but when he saw Barbara he knew he had found his genie. You can't just put a pretty face in a harem outfit. There is a unique quality that these SEASONED actors brought to these roles (not like many on TV today). Luckily for us loyal fans shows like Bewitched and I Dream of Jeannie to name two gave us such talented and seasoned actors. People such as the author of the article in question on this topic make the mistake so many do. They see a 'high concept' show and see it as fluff but in reality so many elements have to be done EXTREMELY professionally (acting, special effects, props, costumes, etc.) or it just can't be pulled off right. Anyone who has seen the 1980s update of "The Munsters" and how cheaply the acting, makeup, etc. was done in comparison to the original knows what I mean. Really these so called 'fluff' shows need the best in order to be done right and be received well by audiences. I think it's much easier to have a dramatic role on CSI or Law and Order (both good shows) than it is to be in a comedy like "Gilligan's Island" or "The Adams Family" and have people want to tune in week after week. The actors have to make it believable and make the characters ones that you care about and want to tune in to see. ...and that's NOT nearly as easy as they make it look!

MickeyMac · 08-17-2010, 03:21 PM

Whoever wrote that is an idiot, someone under 40, and someone who probably likes all this modern day garbage (like reality shows).

Larry Tate · 08-19-2010, 04:30 PM

Elizabeth Montgomery was utterly irreplaceable on Bewitched, without her the show could not have even approached what it became because of her.

She was not merely playing a role, rather she infused so much of the fundamental essence of herself into Samantha that the two were so intertwined to never allow anyone to be able to attempt the role much less achieve it.

Good point by Woof Woof about Liz as well being indispensable what with her & Bill Asher having created the premise that was used in Bewitched that was a unique & new creative entity in of itself.

In most cases the basic premise of these shows were so superb and well thought out that other top notch experienced & highly trained actors could have made the show fly as high in both success and quality as the actually cast actor or actress did.

So he was right in that sense that the premise trumped the casting in general.
Barbara Eden could have been recast with another actress and she would not have been missed and the show being just as good and popular.

Liz Montgomery was one of the exception's to this rule that makes a rule a rule.

Aggie & Marion Lorne were as well irreplaceable in a sense as they were so good, but Venessa Redgrave for example if the same age as AM could have played Endora every bit as well, other actresses likewise could have done so re Aunt Clara, but it would have taken Brilliant Hall of Fame caliber Actors or Actresses like VR to be able to accomplish this.

Larry Tate

Larry Tate · 08-19-2010, 04:35 PM

Paul Lynde now there was a unique entity but even he could have been recast with the guy from Laugh in.

Larry Tate

catlover79 · 08-19-2010, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Tate

Paul Lynde now there was a unique entity but even he could have been recast with the guy from Laugh in.

Larry Tate

I could also see Charles Nelson Reilly as Uncle Arthur. They both had that snarky humor going on.

Mr. Television · 08-19-2010, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MickeyMac

Whoever wrote that is an idiot, someone under 40, and someone who probably likes all this modern day garbage (like reality shows).

My thoughts exactly. This guy probably hates all 1960's tv shows.

And Barbara Eden was Jeannie. She couldn't have been replaced and neither could Liz.

Rezny@gmail.com · 08-22-2010, 11:08 PM

Oh ,Larry Tate.That "guy from Laugh-in"if you are referring to the guy who played "the dirty old man"in the sketches with Ruth Buzzi,was none other than Arte Johnson,who played Samantha's cousin Edgar.

Larry Tate · 08-23-2010, 12:14 AM

No Alan Sues from Laugh In was the one i was referring too, he would have been a great Uncle Arthur if they had cast him then, he was a Paul Lynde Clone.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0837297/

Larry Tate

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrezny@usnetizen

Oh ,Larry Tate.That "guy from Laugh-in"if you are referring to the guy who played "the dirty old man"in the sketches with Ruth Buzzi,was none other than Arte Johnson,who played Samantha's cousin Edgar.

Arfies · 08-23-2010, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuck In The '70's

My thoughts exactly. This guy probably hates all 1960's tv shows.

And Barbara Eden was Jeannie. She couldn't have been replaced and neither could Liz.

Well, apparently he likes "Get Smart."

I still obviously disagree with him about BW and IDOJ.

08-17-2010, 12:13 AM	#1
Brian Damage I'm Rich Bitch Forum Icon Join Date: Feb 03, 2002 Location: What Ain't No Country I Ever Heard Of...They Speak English in What? Posts: 63,107	Was Elizabeth Montgomery Really REPLACEABLE on 'Bewitched?' I read an article where the writer slams Bewitched on other 60's sitcoms. Saying they were so "High concept" that really anybody could've played the roles. Agree? Disagree? Here is a portion of that article... In looking back at the rest of the sitcoms from the 1960s, especially the ‘high concept’ sort- like The Addams Family, The Munsters, My Mother The Car, Bewitched, I Dream Of Jeannie, My Favorite Martian, Green Acres, The Beverly Hillbillies, etc.- they all depended upon, well, the highness, so to speak, of their concept. I mean, were Barbara Eden or Elizabeth Montgomery really indispensable in their roles as a genie and witch? Could not either of them have been paired up with their male mates and basically have had the show’s premises been the same? Was Uncle Fester the reason anyone watched The Addams Family? No. All of the actors were replaceable.
	__________________ The Key to the Kingdom of Heaven: John 3:3 *Money Doesn't Buy Happiness...But I'd Rather Cry in My Private Jet*

08-17-2010, 01:22 AM	#2
catlover79 God Bless Val Forum Addict Join Date: May 29, 2006 Location: Bewitched in Ohio Posts: 70,382	If you look at the roles on paper, it may have seemed like anyone could've played the roles of the beautiful witch and genie. But Elizabeth Montgomery was the rock of Bewitched - as was Barbara Eden on "Jeannie". I can't imagine anyone else in the roles, but do wonder what Elizabeth would've been like as Jeannie and Barbara as Samantha. I know that MickeyMac would love nothing more than to see Liz in a pink harem outfit!!! Attached Images
	__________________ "Jesus loves you and He approves this message." "I'm alive. I'm feeling good. I'm trying to live every moment as much as I can." - Valerie Harper, March 2013

08-17-2010, 05:33 AM	#4
comedyfreak Cheers! Forum Fanatic Join Date: Dec 14, 2005 Location: Sunny California Posts: 11,060	We really can't say as they never were replaced and as some evidence suggested during the Darrin switch, Bewitched droped 13 places in ratings. The writer of the article doesn't know what he's talking about.
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08-17-2010, 12:19 PM	#6
Torgo Omaha & Fritz Forum Star Join Date: Mar 06, 2004 Location: Oregon Posts: 19,036	All these shows worked because of the actors and their chemistry with one another. Granted with a show like Bewitched the chemistry with Liz and Sargent wasn't as strong as her and York, there was still enough there that worked. Also, all of these were great ensemble shows- did people watch Addams Family for Uncle Fester? No of course not they watched it for the entire cast. This is true for almost all sitcoms, even the so-called ones of today.
	__________________ "I'm going to go do something productive. I'm gonna go watch television." - Ray Peterson, The 'burbs "I am the literary equivalent of a Big Mac and Fries." - Stephen King "There's nothing wrong with G-rated movies, as long as there's lots of sex and violence." - Elvira

08-17-2010, 05:23 AM	#3
Arfies Memberific Frequent Poster Join Date: Dec 29, 2001 Location: There beneath the blue suburban skies, in summer, meanwhile back.... Posts: 481	"I mean, were Barbara Eden or Elizabeth Montgomery really indispensable in their roles as a genie and witch?" Frankly, yes. I can't speak for "I Dream of Jeannie," but I can for "Bewitched"- Elizabeth Montgomery was married to director Bill Asher (both came on as a package deal), and the two made a lot of changes to the pilot script and created the show as we know it today (including the "twitch.") Even Dick York was, in hindsight, irreplaceable as Darrin. Heck, as soon as he left, the ratings dropped 13 places. There's the answer.

08-17-2010, 03:21 PM	#8
MickeyMac Member Forum Star Join Date: Jun 18, 2008 Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan Posts: 19,006	Whoever wrote that is an idiot, someone under 40, and someone who probably likes all this modern day garbage (like reality shows).

08-19-2010, 04:30 PM	#9
Larry Tate Member Senior Member Join Date: Dec 26, 2001 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 1,569	Elizabeth Montgomery was utterly irreplaceable on Bewitched, without her the show could not have even approached what it became because of her. She was not merely playing a role, rather she infused so much of the fundamental essence of herself into Samantha that the two were so intertwined to never allow anyone to be able to attempt the role much less achieve it. Good point by Woof Woof about Liz as well being indispensable what with her & Bill Asher having created the premise that was used in Bewitched that was a unique & new creative entity in of itself. In most cases the basic premise of these shows were so superb and well thought out that other top notch experienced & highly trained actors could have made the show fly as high in both success and quality as the actually cast actor or actress did. So he was right in that sense that the premise trumped the casting in general. Barbara Eden could have been recast with another actress and she would not have been missed and the show being just as good and popular. Liz Montgomery was one of the exception's to this rule that makes a rule a rule. Aggie & Marion Lorne were as well irreplaceable in a sense as they were so good, but Venessa Redgrave for example if the same age as AM could have played Endora every bit as well, other actresses likewise could have done so re Aunt Clara, but it would have taken Brilliant Hall of Fame caliber Actors or Actresses like VR to be able to accomplish this. Larry Tate

08-19-2010, 04:35 PM	#10
Larry Tate Member Senior Member Join Date: Dec 26, 2001 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 1,569	Paul Lynde now there was a unique entity but even he could have been recast with the guy from Laugh in. Larry Tate

08-22-2010, 11:08 PM	#13
Rezny@gmail.com Member Senior Member Join Date: Jul 20, 2007 Location: Nebraska Posts: 2,675	Oh ,Larry Tate.That "guy from Laugh-in"if you are referring to the guy who played "the dirty old man"in the sketches with Ruth Buzzi,was none other than Arte Johnson,who played Samantha's cousin Edgar.