NYT Article: David Berkowitz

[nohwheregirl]

The New York Times has an article on the "image makeover" of the convicted Son of Sam killer David Berkowitz.

From the article:

But some of those connected to the Son of Sam case express deep doubt about whether Mr. Berkowitz is truly a born-again Christian or whether he is just using religion to present himself as a changed man.

Joseph Coffey, the police sergeant who took Mr. Berkowitz’s initial confession, said his statements about his religious convictions were as believable as his amended claim that members of a satanic cult to which he belonged were responsible for some of the shootings.

“It’s a total charade to promote himself,” said Mr. Coffey, who retired from the Police Department in 1985. “I have had people who I sent to prison or put in the witness protection program find religion because it suits them by providing them access to the outside world.”

I thought it was interesting that the detective brought up the claim that Berkowitz did not act alone as evidence that he is lying about his religious conversion, especially since so many of us believe there is good evidence that Berkowitz was not acting alone.

As someone who has volunteered with prisoners before, I do believe criminals can redeem themselves, but I also take the religious conversion stuff with a grain of salt. If he has truly found religion, I think it's great, but I also think Berkowitz is right where he belongs.

[Apostapler]

Agreed. Finding religion doesn't erase past deeds. Just makes you act a little better (sometimes). It didn't help Lemuel Smith much, for example.

[soilentgreen]

I never bought into the whole satanism schtick, although I am curious about how well Berkowitz was acquainted with the Carr brothers.

His current behavior is either a sincere change of perspective or another means of garnering attention. If he wants to assist other inmates and actually have a positive focus in prison, that's better than proclaiming his innocence or soliciting for donations or letters from groupies who want to lap up every detail of his crimes.

It should have no bearing on Berkowitz's legal punishment, but apparently he doesn't want parole anyway.

[Wamisto]

Yes, soilentgreen, that is my understanding too - he does not want to be paroled, because he agrees with nowheregirl - he is right where he belongs and deserves to die in prison for what he did, and he says so himself.

[kadrmas15]

I agree with many people here that I frequently disagree with, there is a shock. On Berkowitz, yes he is where he belongs but to me anyway, I tend to lean towards the fact that his religious conversion is overall genuine. Berkowitz frequently does not show up to his parole hearings, has asked the governor to cancel his parole hearings and has even told the board he does not want to be paroled and does not deserve to be paroled. That is something that is highly unusual for an inmate to do regardless if they have changed for the better in prison or not. I have wondered though if Berkowitz does not want to be paroled because he is afraid if he were somehow paroled that he would be killed if released? Supposedly that is why John Lennon's killer, Mark David Chapman has not been paroled, it is because the board is afraid for his safety that he would be killed if he was ever released.

[MegtheEgg86]

Originally Posted by nohwheregirl

I do believe criminals can redeem themselves, but I also take the religious conversion stuff with a grain of salt. If he has truly found religion, I think it's great, but I also think Berkowitz is right where he belongs.

That very well sums up my thoughts on the matter, too.


Like solientgreen, I don't accept that the shootings were part and parcel of a widespread Satanic conspiracy. I do definitely believe the extent of Berkowitz's association with the Carr brothers is as great as Maury Terry asserted in The Ultimate Evil, and I believe they were involved in exactly what the author claimed they were involved in. I just find it hard to believe that "Satanism" as described in the book:

A) is as organized as asserted

B) is as structured as asserted

C) has strong communal ties the nation over

D) is that organized religion specifically dedicated to the the worship of Satan


I think Terry was on the right track in a number of different areas, but the overall claim of the book I took with a large grain of salt.

[Corky Kneivel]

My thing is so what?

I believe its possible Berkowitz could be genuine in his conversion. I also believe, as Joe Coffey asserts, its a convenient way to get people from the outside to spend time with you, and that could be just as important as any religious conversion. Like Dennis Miller says "Noone finds God on prom night. Its always when they've so completely ****ed up their lives so bad noone down here will talk to them any more".

But ultimately, so what? Real or not...so what? If he assists these christian organizations with there works that is indeed good for them, however I'd hate to be a member of Stacey Moskowitz's family for example and have to see people celebrate this man's come to Jesus at the expense of her death as well as the deaths of the others.

[alfiechat]

I would agree with the assessment that both Berkowitz and Chapman would be in grave danger of being killed should they be released.

[soilentgreen]

I think Berkowitz has already been attacked in prison. People like him, Chapman and Manson are targets for any prisoner who wants to establish a reputation.

Originally Posted by Corky Kneivel

If he assists these christian organizations with there works that is indeed good for them, however I'd hate to be a member of Stacey Moskowitz's family for example and have to see people celebrate this man's come to Jesus at the expense of her death as well as the deaths of the others.

That's really my only issue with it; Berkowitz's church calls his site "Forgiven for life". That comes across as extremely tacky...not so much due to my own bias about the nature of forgiveness (the only people who can truly forgive him are his victims and their families, not members of a church in a god's name) but that the victims' families are still impacted by the publicity that's generated by his supporters.

Possibly to their minds, whether it's true or not, he's profiting as much from his new reputation as when he attempted to sell his story of the crimes for money. I can't blame them for questioning his motives.

[MegtheEgg86]

Originally Posted by soilentgreen

I think Berkowitz has already been attacked in prison. People like him, Chapman and Manson are targets for any prisoner who wants to establish a reputation.

He has been. Early in his incarceration--1979 or somewhere about--another inmate approached him from behind and attempted to cut his throat with a shank-like device of some sort.

[TheCafeDisco]

I can't really judge if David has found faith or not. That is only for God to judge. However I can say that after what he did he does deserve to be in jail and like another member said on this thread, he seems to know believe that too. He frequently says he doesn't derserves to be paroled and does deserve to be in jail for what he's done.
However, I am still not convinced he acted alone. Someone really needs to go back through this case again and find out if more members where involved. I think david knows more than what he is telling everyone.

[greatgarrett2]

Originally Posted by TheCafeDisco

I can't really judge if David has found faith or not. That is only for God to judge. However I can say that after what he did he does deserve to be in jail and like another member said on this thread, he seems to know believe that too. He frequently says he doesn't derserves to be paroled and does deserve to be in jail for what he's done.
However, I am still not convinced he acted alone. Someone really needs to go back through this case again and find out if more members where involved. I think david knows more than what he is telling everyone.

I too think there was more to this case than met the eye. Hence, I don't think he acted alone.

I often wondered, if his religion is just for publicity, if he did get out, would he keep te religin up? Or, would he drop it? He han't showed up for his parole hearings though and says himself he deserves not to get out of jail. So, maybe he is genuine. I believe that he was into Satanism and he simply came to terms with the enormity of what he did and converted. In a deposition interview or two he stated 'Yes' he did know the Carr brothers and he stated he knew who or what engineered their deaths. The so-called Twenty-Two Desciples of Hell. Correct me if I'm wrong but in the Som of Sam UM segment, it stated this I believe. Just watched a biography program on him not too long ago and again he says himself on that program he used to pray and chant 'Lucifer, son of the morning' and what not.

So, I believe there is definately more to this case than lonely old 'Berkie' stalking couples in lovers lanes alone to relieve some angst. He was a fall guy and he took the fall...

[TheCafeDisco]

Originally Posted by greatgarrett2

I too think there was more to this case than met the eye. Hence, I don't think he acted alone.

I often wondered, if his religion is just for publicity, if he did get out, would he keep te religin up? Or, would he drop it? He han't showed up for his parole hearings though and says himself he deserves not to get out of jail. So, maybe he is genuine. I believe that he was into Satanism and he simply came to terms with the enormity of what he did and converted. In a deposition interview or two he stated 'Yes' he did know the Carr brothers and he stated he knew who or what engineered their deaths. The so-called Twenty-Two Desciples of Hell. Correct me if I'm wrong but in the Som of Sam UM segment, it stated this I believe. Just watched a biography program on him not too long ago and again he says himself on that program he used to pray and chant 'Lucifer, son of the morning' and what not.

So, I believe there is definately more to this case than lonely old 'Berkie' stalking couples in lovers lanes alone to relieve some angst. He was a fall guy and he took the fall...

agree completely

[LaurierCrimmajor]

Anthropologist Eliot Leyton wrote a pretty fascinating study of Berkowitz and his crimes and compulsions in the book "Hunting Humans". I found it to be a very insightful and articulate analysis.

[bugnpinky]

I've always belived that he was very deeply intro drugs during this time.....and his brain heavily scrambled. If he was set up, I can easily see the brothers messing with him, doing fake rituals and such, and thoroughly convincing him of all that. Or they all did stuff like that high as kites....dunno, just a thought.