“All in the Family” Doesn't Hold Up For Today Because.....It is Poorly Written??? - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Brian Damage · 06-11-2010, 02:23 AM

I saw “All in the Family” on rerun on the Nickelodeon channel wondering why a show that was No. 1 for 6 consecutive years in the Nielsen’s fares so poorly in reruns.

Then I started watching it

I could see why.

The show is poorly written. Although well played by its cast (Carroll O’Connor, Jean Stapleton, Sally Struthers and Rob Reiner), the show was a product of its time that ended with the election of Jimmy Carter.

Other shows that drew as high ratings still draw crowds. I laughed very hard a few months ago at an “I Love Lucy” episode that I had never seen before.

“All in the Family” just isn’t “Andy Griffith” or “Bill Cosby.” It isn’t even “Three’s Company.”

It is not that the lead character is such a buffoon and a conveniently unread conservative, but it was simply that Archie Bunker was a character that deserves no sympathy. He is a mean-spirited, hateful and unintelligent man. He is as unlovable as Homer Simpson or even Peter Griffin are lovable. He is pathetically possessive. Consider his beloved chair. A more uncomfortable easy chair does not exist. It looks like an extra chair that is dragged into the room when there are too many people to be seated. Only a fool would want it. And that is perhaps why he wanted it.

The saving grace was that Carroll O’Connor was smart enough to save the character by giving him a sad face that elicited some sympathy that his lines did not deserve. After a while, the punching bag’s stamina draws admiration. Hey, even the Harlem Globetrotters let the Washington Generals win a game or two. Not this show.

The two women — Edith and Gloria — are simps who eventually latch on to some sort of second-hand feminism not because they feel the desire to do more than live outside of their sad little home, but because it is fashionable. Feminism as a hairdo. Edith sort of found a voice toward the end of the series — and so they killed her off, replacing her as she lay dying with a bar and a female Cousin Oliver.

The shelf-life on Gloria’s good looks was painfully small and looking at her mother, one can see she will need something more going for her. Alas, her character had buffoons for parents. She fell close to that tree.

The plots were conveniently the same, but then most TV shows are. Every week someone barges into Archie Bunker’s home, accuses him of some sort of bigotry for which he is guilty and then stomps back out triumphantly. We have outsmarted the Village Idiot.

The writers, directors and actors never quite saw how rude this formula is — or how rude the running gag is of guests taking the man’s chair.

Which brings us to the guy who I really dislike, Michael Stivic, a professional student who beds a counter girl from the department store, weds and then spends the next 6 years mooching off her and her parents. He is a loathsome critter who is an odd choice for an alter ego for the show’s producer, Norman Lear, who should have by the time he was approaching 50 (he was 48 when it premiered) gotten over any issues he had with his father.

Instead we get a look at how Norman Lear would have re-written his family life, with him — the smarter and educated Lear — besting the Old Man night after night.

In real life, Reiner had no such issues. Liberalism aside, he got along with his Old Man and followed him into the industry, first as an actor. He actually believes in the character and plays Michael Stivic with an innocence that is convincing. In reality, the character is just using his wife and in-laws. The moment he was through with college, he left for the West Coast and while the divorce was mutual, all the Bunkers have for their trouble is a grandson and a bummed out daughter.

But Michael Stivic is a hero to the Lear liberals. He is smarter and better educated. That somehow entitles Michael Stivic to abusing his wife’s family for 6 years. In one episode, his Uncle Casmir Stivic arrives and naturally, like any other guest of the Bunkers, confronts Archie Bunker and lectures him on Polish-American civil rights. Why Archie Bunker put up with this week after week was as illogical as his lust for that damned chair. But as I watched this Uncle Casmir, my questions was why don’t you take Michael and Gloria home and care and feed for them?

My only conclusion is that Uncle Casmir Stivic is smart. Archie Bunker dumb.

http://blogs.dailymail.com/donsurber/archives/14106

OH Nuts! · 06-24-2010, 04:11 PM

The show never struck me as poorly written...but that's just me. I loved the show when it came in in the 70s. And what a treat it was to see it as a young teenager in its first showing - it was a mind blowing experience - so unlike the pablum that tended to grace the tubes in this era.

Would it hold up today? No. Because now we freely discuss so many of the controversial issues the show carted out. But to do what it did in the 70s was really quite amazing. And that's why I adore this show. Truly one of TVs masterpieces.

Marvo301 · 06-24-2010, 04:35 PM

My experience with this show is quite the opposite. One of my local channels has recently been rerunning this show and I find I am enjoying it more than ever. Perhaps its because this is the first time I've watched it as an adult and I understand the dialogue in a deeper way. But for me this show has only gotten better with age.

Retro4Life · 06-24-2010, 06:58 PM

Sigh.

This is still more proof that the world is full of people with opinions and that the Internet somehow makes all of those opinions seem equally valid. Unfortunately the total inability of the author of this blog to understand subtlety and conflict, not to mention nuanced, layered and historically as well as emotionally accurate writing, proves that some opinions are just plain wrong.

Dozens of Emmy awards and nominations, critical accolades, generations of fans and year after year of Top Ten Nielsen ratings are what this classic, unforgettable and revolutionary show have going for it. This "blogger", who fails to understand just about everything about this series, and comedy and drama in general, will, I would imagine, have a much less rich legacy to leave the world.

70s show watcher · 06-26-2010, 05:48 AM

ive been watching it for 35 out of my almost 39 years of living and its still one of the best shows ever written and the the writer of the piece mentioned i love lucy well all in the family and lucy had some of the same writers

70s show watcher · 06-26-2010, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marvo301

My experience with this show is quite the opposite. One of my local channels has recently been rerunning this show and I find I am enjoying it more than ever. Perhaps its because this is the first time I've watched it as an adult and I understand the dialogue in a deeper way. But for me this show has only gotten better with age.

i feel the same way word for word

MickeyMac · 06-27-2010, 04:42 PM

I disagree, I think this show was well written. It wouldnt hold up today because everybody has gone P.C.

rcbrad · 06-29-2010, 12:14 PM

I never read such a harsh review of this show. The reviewer almost seems irritated or annoyed when discussing his/her dislike for the show. It is dated to the extent that it often included issues that were relevant at the time. (and some still are) I do not think that the show was poorly written at all.

You left out that this show was a tremendous breakthrough for television. It certainly changed television to a great extent. There are many, many shows that were huge hits on first run network tv, but could have done better in syndication.

It sounds like it's just not your kind of show.. which is ok, we all have our own opinions.

It looks like the remaining seasons are now finally being released on DVD!

OH Nuts! · 06-30-2010, 06:31 PM

[QUOTE=rcbrad]I never read such a harsh review of this show. The reviewer almost seems irritated or annoyed when discussing his/her dislike for the show. It is dated to the extent that it often included issues that were relevant at the time. (and some still are) I do not think that the show was poorly written at all.

[QUOTE]

To each their own I suppose. But I'm with you, I think the writing is just fine and I adore the show!

Mr. Television · 06-30-2010, 06:38 PM

All in the Family may be the greatest sitcom of all time. Since most of today's sitcoms suck, of course it doesn't hold up.

JAlanRuss72 · 07-03-2010, 11:27 PM

You have to take television shows (and movies) in consideration to the time period that surrounded them. For 1971, All In The Family tackled issues that had rarely been mentioned before and was enormously groundbreaking. While some issues of the day might seem dated because of the period, there are things that still holdup quite well, and probably always will: family bonds, disagreements, laughter, tears, love, hate- these things are eternal and part of the human condition. The show, at its heart, was about family- not so much about bigotry or sexism or watergate- but about living and learning from those you disagree with. These things will never go out of date.

MOWERDAN · 07-19-2010, 10:57 AM

I've always loved this show. I watched it as a preteen/teen in the '70s, and I have enjoyed it more and more as I've aged. It has been in reruns ever since.

Some of the issues that were topical for the day (Vietnam, Watergate, Women's Lib, etc) may seem either irrelevant or confusing to younger viewers who don't know or care, but the cast and writing was so good enough that you can still put yourself in that time period. The show was very passionate about these issues, which makes a contemporary viewer actually care about the issues even though they're over 30 years old.

In a strange and unplanned way, this show has managed to still be controversial. Back in it's day the controversy was due to the frank discussions on many taboo topics. But nowadays, the controvery is due to it's un-PC nature. When my teenage kids watch this, they can't believe the blunt discussions on racism, the spousal verbal & emotional abuse, etc. There are tons of words (like the N word) that would never in a million years be used in even the edgiest sitcom today. This is why this show is still given a PG DL rating. It's not a South Park by any means, but it's no Friends.

Hughsgirl · 07-20-2010, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MickeyMac

I disagree, I think this show was well written. It wouldnt hold up today because everybody has gone P.C.

Amen Mickey! That's the problem.....it's all "oh my Gosh we can't think or say that! It's too offensive!"
Guess what? I DON'T CARE WHO I OFFEND!! I'm one of the most "politically incorrect" people you will find because if I want to spout off about something that I don't like I will tell the world and nuts to who don't like it....they can still lump it! These liberals can push their BS on us but we can't? I DON'T THINK SO!! They shove me, I shove harder! Oh and if no one has figured it out I loved and still love AITF!!

Benno123 · 07-20-2010, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hughsgirl

Amen Mickey! That's the problem.....it's all "oh my Gosh we can't think or say that! It's too offensive!"
Guess what? I DON'T CARE WHO I OFFEND!! I'm one of the most "politically incorrect" people you will find because if I want to spout off about something that I don't like I will tell the world and nuts to who don't like it....they can still lump it! These liberals can push their BS on us but we can't? I DON'T THINK SO!! They shove me, I shove harder! Oh and if no one has figured it out I loved and still love AITF!!

You are my new hero! As Archie once said, "You can go and lump it, take it down the road and dump it!"

I once read an article where Norman Lear gave a lecture or something at a college, probably UCLA but I'm not sure, where episodes of AITF were shown. The students were shocked, and then thrilled because no where now is anything like that shown on TV.

This "PC" country we have become has caused us not to take a look at ourselves and laugh. AITF did that, it gave the viewers a chance to look at themselves and just laugh. But not now because everyone is too busy not being able to laugh at themselves. Such a shame.

OH Nuts! · 07-20-2010, 10:25 PM

Its so easy to come up with reasons this show is so great!!!!! And what a treat it was to see it fresh and firsthand as a teenager. It is still powerful - even 30 yrs down the road. But then classics always are. Everything abt the show was great - but Carroll and Jean added even more greatness with their magnificent acting -whatta show!

06-11-2010, 02:23 AM	#1
Brian Damage I'm Rich Bitch Forum Icon Join Date: Feb 03, 2002 Location: What Ain't No Country I Ever Heard Of...They Speak English in What? Posts: 63,107	“All in the Family” Doesn't Hold Up For Today Because.....It is Poorly Written??? I saw “All in the Family” on rerun on the Nickelodeon channel wondering why a show that was No. 1 for 6 consecutive years in the Nielsen’s fares so poorly in reruns. Then I started watching it I could see why. The show is poorly written. Although well played by its cast (Carroll O’Connor, Jean Stapleton, Sally Struthers and Rob Reiner), the show was a product of its time that ended with the election of Jimmy Carter. Other shows that drew as high ratings still draw crowds. I laughed very hard a few months ago at an “I Love Lucy” episode that I had never seen before. “All in the Family” just isn’t “Andy Griffith” or “Bill Cosby.” It isn’t even “Three’s Company.” It is not that the lead character is such a buffoon and a conveniently unread conservative, but it was simply that Archie Bunker was a character that deserves no sympathy. He is a mean-spirited, hateful and unintelligent man. He is as unlovable as Homer Simpson or even Peter Griffin are lovable. He is pathetically possessive. Consider his beloved chair. A more uncomfortable easy chair does not exist. It looks like an extra chair that is dragged into the room when there are too many people to be seated. Only a fool would want it. And that is perhaps why he wanted it. The saving grace was that Carroll O’Connor was smart enough to save the character by giving him a sad face that elicited some sympathy that his lines did not deserve. After a while, the punching bag’s stamina draws admiration. Hey, even the Harlem Globetrotters let the Washington Generals win a game or two. Not this show. The two women — Edith and Gloria — are simps who eventually latch on to some sort of second-hand feminism not because they feel the desire to do more than live outside of their sad little home, but because it is fashionable. Feminism as a hairdo. Edith sort of found a voice toward the end of the series — and so they killed her off, replacing her as she lay dying with a bar and a female Cousin Oliver. The shelf-life on Gloria’s good looks was painfully small and looking at her mother, one can see she will need something more going for her. Alas, her character had buffoons for parents. She fell close to that tree. The plots were conveniently the same, but then most TV shows are. Every week someone barges into Archie Bunker’s home, accuses him of some sort of bigotry for which he is guilty and then stomps back out triumphantly. We have outsmarted the Village Idiot. The writers, directors and actors never quite saw how rude this formula is — or how rude the running gag is of guests taking the man’s chair. Which brings us to the guy who I really dislike, Michael Stivic, a professional student who beds a counter girl from the department store, weds and then spends the next 6 years mooching off her and her parents. He is a loathsome critter who is an odd choice for an alter ego for the show’s producer, Norman Lear, who should have by the time he was approaching 50 (he was 48 when it premiered) gotten over any issues he had with his father. Instead we get a look at how Norman Lear would have re-written his family life, with him — the smarter and educated Lear — besting the Old Man night after night. In real life, Reiner had no such issues. Liberalism aside, he got along with his Old Man and followed him into the industry, first as an actor. He actually believes in the character and plays Michael Stivic with an innocence that is convincing. In reality, the character is just using his wife and in-laws. The moment he was through with college, he left for the West Coast and while the divorce was mutual, all the Bunkers have for their trouble is a grandson and a bummed out daughter. But Michael Stivic is a hero to the Lear liberals. He is smarter and better educated. That somehow entitles Michael Stivic to abusing his wife’s family for 6 years. In one episode, his Uncle Casmir Stivic arrives and naturally, like any other guest of the Bunkers, confronts Archie Bunker and lectures him on Polish-American civil rights. Why Archie Bunker put up with this week after week was as illogical as his lust for that damned chair. But as I watched this Uncle Casmir, my questions was why don’t you take Michael and Gloria home and care and feed for them? My only conclusion is that Uncle Casmir Stivic is smart. Archie Bunker dumb. http://blogs.dailymail.com/donsurber/archives/14106
	__________________ The Key to the Kingdom of Heaven: John 3:3 *Money Doesn't Buy Happiness...But I'd Rather Cry in My Private Jet*

06-24-2010, 04:35 PM	#3
Marvo301 I'm NOT a Blockhead! Forum Celebrity Join Date: May 17, 2002 Location: The Great White North Posts: 21,460	My experience with this show is quite the opposite. One of my local channels has recently been rerunning this show and I find I am enjoying it more than ever. Perhaps its because this is the first time I've watched it as an adult and I understand the dialogue in a deeper way. But for me this show has only gotten better with age.
	__________________ Only a life lived for others is worth living. Albert Einstein A life isn't worth living unless it has impact on other lives. Jackie Robinson Be always at war with your vices, at peace with your neighbors, and let each new year find you a better man. Benjamin Franklin

06-24-2010, 06:58 PM	#4
Retro4Life Accept No Substitutes Forum Veteran Join Date: Feb 04, 2009 Location: IL Posts: 6,708	Sigh. This is still more proof that the world is full of people with opinions and that the Internet somehow makes all of those opinions seem equally valid. Unfortunately the total inability of the author of this blog to understand subtlety and conflict, not to mention nuanced, layered and historically as well as emotionally accurate writing, proves that some opinions are just plain wrong. Dozens of Emmy awards and nominations, critical accolades, generations of fans and year after year of Top Ten Nielsen ratings are what this classic, unforgettable and revolutionary show have going for it. This "blogger", who fails to understand just about everything about this series, and comedy and drama in general, will, I would imagine, have a much less rich legacy to leave the world.
	__________________ Alex Reiger :[Trying to convince Louie not to antagonize Bobby] "It's not hard to make people feel bad about their lives. What's hard is making people feel good about their lives."

06-30-2010, 06:38 PM	#10
Mr. Television 23 Years at Sitcoms Online Forum Icon Join Date: Jun 06, 2003 Location: Somewhere you're Not Posts: 62,132	All in the Family may be the greatest sitcom of all time. Since most of today's sitcoms suck, of course it doesn't hold up.
	__________________ Sonny

07-03-2010, 11:27 PM	#11
JAlanRuss72 Eternal Member Eternal Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Nov 22, 2006 Location: Cookeville, TN Posts: 488	You have to take television shows (and movies) in consideration to the time period that surrounded them. For 1971, All In The Family tackled issues that had rarely been mentioned before and was enormously groundbreaking. While some issues of the day might seem dated because of the period, there are things that still holdup quite well, and probably always will: family bonds, disagreements, laughter, tears, love, hate- these things are eternal and part of the human condition. The show, at its heart, was about family- not so much about bigotry or sexism or watergate- but about living and learning from those you disagree with. These things will never go out of date.
	__________________ Jeff Russell Facebook Page: http://facebook.com/Jrussell1972

06-24-2010, 04:11 PM	#2
OH Nuts! Member Forum King Join Date: Feb 15, 2005 Posts: 133,383	The show never struck me as poorly written...but that's just me. I loved the show when it came in in the 70s. And what a treat it was to see it as a young teenager in its first showing - it was a mind blowing experience - so unlike the pablum that tended to grace the tubes in this era. Would it hold up today? No. Because now we freely discuss so many of the controversial issues the show carted out. But to do what it did in the 70s was really quite amazing. And that's why I adore this show. Truly one of TVs masterpieces.

06-26-2010, 05:48 AM	#5
70s show watcher Member Forum 4000 Club Member Join Date: May 20, 2008 Location: between point place and studio 8 h Posts: 4,549	ive been watching it for 35 out of my almost 39 years of living and its still one of the best shows ever written and the the writer of the piece mentioned i love lucy well all in the family and lucy had some of the same writers

06-27-2010, 04:42 PM	#7
MickeyMac Member Forum Star Join Date: Jun 18, 2008 Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan Posts: 19,008	I disagree, I think this show was well written. It wouldnt hold up today because everybody has gone P.C.

06-29-2010, 12:14 PM	#8
rcbrad Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Jan 21, 2007 Posts: 479	I never read such a harsh review of this show. The reviewer almost seems irritated or annoyed when discussing his/her dislike for the show. It is dated to the extent that it often included issues that were relevant at the time. (and some still are) I do not think that the show was poorly written at all. You left out that this show was a tremendous breakthrough for television. It certainly changed television to a great extent. There are many, many shows that were huge hits on first run network tv, but could have done better in syndication. It sounds like it's just not your kind of show.. which is ok, we all have our own opinions. It looks like the remaining seasons are now finally being released on DVD!

06-30-2010, 06:31 PM	#9
OH Nuts! Member Forum King Join Date: Feb 15, 2005 Posts: 133,383	[QUOTE=rcbrad]I never read such a harsh review of this show. The reviewer almost seems irritated or annoyed when discussing his/her dislike for the show. It is dated to the extent that it often included issues that were relevant at the time. (and some still are) I do not think that the show was poorly written at all. [QUOTE] To each their own I suppose. But I'm with you, I think the writing is just fine and I adore the show!

07-19-2010, 10:57 AM	#12
MOWERDAN Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Jan 04, 2002 Location: NEW JERSEY Posts: 64	I've always loved this show. I watched it as a preteen/teen in the '70s, and I have enjoyed it more and more as I've aged. It has been in reruns ever since. Some of the issues that were topical for the day (Vietnam, Watergate, Women's Lib, etc) may seem either irrelevant or confusing to younger viewers who don't know or care, but the cast and writing was so good enough that you can still put yourself in that time period. The show was very passionate about these issues, which makes a contemporary viewer actually care about the issues even though they're over 30 years old. In a strange and unplanned way, this show has managed to still be controversial. Back in it's day the controversy was due to the frank discussions on many taboo topics. But nowadays, the controvery is due to it's un-PC nature. When my teenage kids watch this, they can't believe the blunt discussions on racism, the spousal verbal & emotional abuse, etc. There are tons of words (like the N word) that would never in a million years be used in even the edgiest sitcom today. This is why this show is still given a PG DL rating. It's not a South Park by any means, but it's no Friends.

07-20-2010, 10:25 PM	#15
OH Nuts! Member Forum King Join Date: Feb 15, 2005 Posts: 133,383	Its so easy to come up with reasons this show is so great!!!!! And what a treat it was to see it fresh and firsthand as a teenager. It is still powerful - even 30 yrs down the road. But then classics always are. Everything abt the show was great - but Carroll and Jean added even more greatness with their magnificent acting -whatta show!