Cindy James Segment

[lauracrook]

Ok so I know that UM has to try to get heaps of information into one little segment but in the case of Cindy James when I finished watching the segment it left me asking questions about the investigation undertaken.

- Cindy's husband- they separated in 1984 and three months later the harrassing phonecalls started. Maybe, Cindy made up these phone call stories because she couldn't handle breaking up with her husband....but did the police investigate the husband at all? Why did they separate? Did he have violent tendencies. He could have been the one making the calls. Just a thought
- Maybe Cindy had a disagreement with someone that was associated with her through her work with children with emotional/behavioural issues- not a child but maybe a parent or a co-worker- does anyone know if the police investigated this angle?

Does anyone known if these angles were investigated? These seem like the first areas I would search. Did anyone else think that the police were hiding something- maybe they screwed up and then covered up. Any thoughts?

[Mastermind]

- Cindy's husband- they separated in 1984 and three months later the harrassing phonecalls started. Maybe, Cindy made up these phone call stories because she couldn't handle breaking up with her husband....but did the police investigate the husband at all? Why did they separate? Did he have violent tendencies. He could have been the one making the calls. Just a thought

Don''t hold me to this, but I believe the police and Ozzie Kaban looked into the ex-husband.

How could he not be the first suspect?

- Maybe Cindy had a disagreement with someone that was associated with her through her work with children with emotional/behavioural issues- not a child but maybe a parent or a co-worker- does anyone know if the police investigated this angle?

1.Keep in mind that it isn;t just the police at this point. It's also the PI Ozzie Kaban. Did Ozzie Kaban investigate these angles as well?

2. I could buy that if the harassment was for a shorter period of time. But this lasted way too long for it to be a random co-worker with a grudge.

3. I believe Cindy changed her name and address. So this co-worker would have to have gone to some great lengths to find her new name and address.

4. I question whether one person could have kept up a campaign like this all on his own. There would need to be at least one other person.

[Mastermind]

Does anyone known if these angles were investigated? These seem like the first areas I would search

Considering how long the investigation was and the fact that there were police rollers posted...i would have to imagine that all persons romantically connected to Cindy were looked at and their alibis were checked.

Did anyone else think that the police were hiding something- maybe they screwed up and then covered up. Any thoughts?

1. What would they have to cover up? What was covered up? The suicide?

2. With all respect to the family and to Cindy James...Cindy wouldn't talk!!
If you think about it....Cindy was the one covering up facts.

The police needed Cindy to tell them what she knew about the killer...Cindy didn;t. He refusal to talk is what hindered this case.

3. The police seemed pretty forthright in giving information to the press. That reporter seemed to have a pretty good beat on the case.

4. Any coverup would have to happen ...AFTER Cindy's death.

5. Usually when there's a cover up, you have people refusing to talk, information missing, conflicting evidence. I don;t think any of these things occured in this case.

6. Do the police really need to cover up anything? I have to imagine that the consensus among the public was split on whether the attacks were real or not.

The police already have a pretty good cover story that Cindy herself provided. That she committed suicide due to insanity.

What else do they really need to do?

[Prodigy]

this segment always made me think...

I find myself split between being able to decide whether i think for sure that she some how did all of this herself or in fact some one was doing all of this to her and finally did murder her.

In the segnment they say that she had her hands and feet tied together behind her back and was overdosed on morphine and other drugs, I don't know about most people but I think I would struggle to tie my hands and feet together behind my back even without morphine..

What makes me tick even more is the mention that she always seemed to be with holding information about the attacks, leading one to believe that there was something A LOT bigger to the story..

There's a site on the site http://melaniehack.com/index.html which i believe was set up by Cindy's sister.

On the site there's an audio file down the bottom of the first page which is an actual recording of one of the threatening calls she supposedly received. I don't know if its just me, but after listening to the audio file a few times, I can't help but to be almost certain that the voice is a female's voice speaking in a slow and low, husky voice.. I suppose that just adds more question marks for me..

[Mastermind]

What makes me tick even more is the mention that she always seemed to be with holding information about the attacks, leading one to believe that there was something A LOT bigger to the story..

Like what? What else was there to this story?

In the segnment they say that she had her hands and feet tied together behind her back and was overdosed on morphine and other drugs, I don't know about most people but I think I would struggle to tie my hands and feet together behind my back even without morphine..

There have been people who have managed to tie themselves and bound themselves for the purpose of faking.

You don't need to be a contortionist or escape artist to do so.

[bbaver]

Originally Posted by lauracrook

- Cindy's husband- they separated in 1984 and three months later the harrassing phonecalls started. Maybe, Cindy made up these phone call stories because she couldn't handle breaking up with her husband....but did the police investigate the husband at all? Why did they separate? Did he have violent tendencies. He could have been the one making the calls. Just a thought

Does anyone known if these angles were investigated? These seem like the first areas I would search. Did anyone else think that the police were hiding something- maybe they screwed up and then covered up. Any thoughts?

Makepeace (the ex-husband) was definitely investigated. At one point, the police interrogated him for 5+ hours and said they had the evidence to prove it was him, but it was a bluff - they had basically nothing except for the fact that he was the ex-husband, which made him #1 on a suspect list that really had no other suspects. Makepeace didn't break during the interrogation. The harassment went on for years after this interrogation, but Makepeace was not considered much of a suspect; again, no evidence to support it. And later when one of the attacks occured, Makepeace was out of the country with supporting documentation to prove it. So, if it was him, you are talking about quite the conspiracy with him hiring or simply having others harass her.

[Prodigy]

Originally Posted by Mastermind

Like what? What else was there to this story?



There have been people who have managed to tie themselves and bound themselves for the purpose of faking.

You don't need to be a contortionist or escape artist to do so.

Don't think there was anything else to the story... it's just how adamant she was with keeping the person's identity a secret without ever telling anyone, just makes me think that either way, whether ultimately she did fake everything or indeed if some one had "got to her" there is more to the story than what aired on UM..

In terms of people managing to tie their hand's and feet together behind their back.. I don't know still seems too tricky too me.. I don't think any of them that have managed that could do so with a lethal dose of morphine in their bloodstream.

I'm still interested to get people's thoughts on the audio.. I'm convinced that it sounds like a woman..

[Prodigy]

Further to my message above, after doing a bit more looking around.. there appears to be a lot more to this story..

[Mastermind]

indeed if some one had "got to her" there is more to the story than what aired on UM..

I'm not clear on what you mean "got to her"

You mean silence her?

Why now after all those years of attacks?

It's not like she didn't call the police before. The police were called much early in the game and were involved in the case. I personally think that would be worth killing someone to silence them.

I don't think any of them that have managed that could do so with a lethal dose of morphine in their bloodstream.

There's some time before the effects of morphine take place.
Enough to tie one's self up.

In terms of people managing to tie their hand's and feet together behind their back.. I don't know still seems too tricky too me

It's an easy enough experiment to replicate.
Get some rope, a friend, a stopwatch.

See if it's possible.

[Mastermind]

Further to my message above, after doing a bit more looking around.. there appears to be a lot more to this story..

such as....

[bbaver]

I thought the two calls that Makepeace kept from his answering machine sounded more like a woman than a man.

There were at least two times Cindy went through testing (regarding her mental state) where the tests showed her to be highly intelligent.

I've read both books twice. I'm not 100% convinced, but tend to think that she probably staged her death (and most of the harassment, although I do believe at least some of it, possibly just some of the calls, were real).

[Guardian]

The voice in the recording does sound like a muffled woman's voice. However this doesn't mean that it was Cindy. There are too many factors here to just dismiss this case entirely. Cindy may well have been doing this to herself, but that raises the most important question if true, Why? I understand that someone with mental issues may beat themselves up and make it look like they are being harrassed repeatedly to get attention, but you can't get attention if you go so far as to kill yourself in the process. That will of course bring up the point that "maybe she didn't intend to kill herself but just over dosed by accident while staging the scene." Ok, if you are staging the scen without intent to kill yourself, why bother with morphine at all?

i don't claim to even have a working theory of what happened to Cindy, but I just can't by that she staged all this. Maybe I am wrong but someone being found at the side of a road with hands tied behind their back after a lethal overdose, just doesn't sound like suicide. Jumping out a window? yeah. shot in the head? sure. wrists slashed? ok. lethal injection overdose? fine. But hands tied behind back and lethal overdose and doing all this at the side of the road? BS. There has to be more to this. As to what that is, I have no idea.

[Mastermind]

However this doesn't mean that it was Cindy

Are you suggesting Cindy's attacker was a woman?

or that another party was involved in this case?

Maybe I am wrong but someone being found at the side of a road with hands tied behind their back after a lethal overdose, just doesn't sound like suicide. Jumping out a window? yeah. shot in the head? sure. wrists slashed? ok. lethal injection overdose? fine. But hands tied behind back and lethal overdose and doing all this at the side of the road? BS. There has to be more to this. As to what that is, I have no idea.

1. I would argue that Cindy James death is not that bizzare. In fact it's a basically an overdose suicide. Overdose suicide is a popular method of suicide amongst women. The only bizarre part was the attempt to tie herself up. That;s it.

I would actually be a little more skeptical if Cindy shot herself rather than drug herself.

2. You have to keep in mind that suicide is only part of Cindy's plan. She also has to make it seem like her "attacker" caused the murder.

3. Cindy may have had help in staging her own suicide..... Perhaps via a private detective.

Ok, if you are staging the scen without intent to kill yourself, why bother with morphine at all?

What else was she going to use?

Cindy may well have been doing this to herself, but that raises the most important question if true, Why? I understand that someone with mental issues may beat themselves up and make it look like they are being harrassed repeatedly to get attention, but you can't get attention if you go so far as to kill yourself in the process.

I think a big reason some people committ suicide is to imagine what it would be like for all their friends, family members, enemies, crying and feeling sorry for her. You sort of imagine all your friends talking about you and saying "we should have listened to her. We should have treated her better".

I know this from experience, because I had the same thoughts when I considered suicide.

You start to wallowing in the idea of people feeling sorry or you and spending time talking about you. It;s really the idea of getting other people to share the same pain your going through.

It's a big reason why a lot of people committ suicide....
1. to gain sympathy
2. to have other people share and understand the pain your suffering
3. To get back at people in a twisted type of revenge.

There are too many factors here to just dismiss this case entirely.

What real evidence proves that there is an attacker? Other than Cindy's own claims.

How is this case any different from the Wackers?

[Mastermind]

That will of course bring up the point that "maybe she didn't intend to kill herself but just over dosed by accident while staging the scene." Ok, if you are staging the scen without intent to kill yourself, why bother with morphine at all?

1. Why after all these attacks would a killer(s) just suddenly decide know is the time to off Cindy James? The only real change that occured in Cindy's life was that she was under suicide watch.

2. In both scenarios, there is staging,

If Cindy James was killed, then her killers were trying to make it seem like a suicide by using the morphine. After all, why not just shoot her.

If Cindy committed suicide, she was trying to make it seem like murder.

Why?

[Guardian]

All very good points indeed. And I will agree that much of the evidence really could go either way. I do find it interesting that the police were never able to ever find anything substancial to support anything.

I am curious as to what, if anything, Cindy was going to finally tell her mother when all was said and done. That of course could be entirely made up but who knows?

My gut has always told me there was much more to this case than a suicide.

As far as the attacker being a woman, I have no idea. I am simply saying that the voice on her sister's website sounds like that of a womans. What I would like to see in this case is for that recording to be looked at by audio specialists. Voice recordings are as unique as fingerprints. If that could be cross referenced against any existing recordings of Cindy's voice, it could lay the matter to rest completely if it were to turn out to match her voice. If it didn't match, that opens up a whole new playing field.

It would be interesting to know how exactly cindy felt about her parents. Even if she was thinking of suicide, I cant believe that unless she had some deep anger toward her parents that she would put them through this whole situation by going through with it in this manner.