Who Really RUINED 'Good Times?' - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Brian Damage · 05-22-2010, 02:00 PM

Was it Jimmie Walker? Esther Rolle? John Amos? Janet Jackson? CBS? Who do you think was most responsible for this once great sitcoms quality and ultimate demise?

Retro4Life · 05-22-2010, 02:12 PM

I disagree with the question's premise.

I don't think Good Times was 'ruined'. Sure it wasn't the same show at the end, and I really wish that Amos hadn't left so early, but there were still some laughs to be found and it didn't really go much further than it should have, IMHO.

I think Walker's breakout status kind of skewed the story away from the family a bit, and the character of Keith was kind of ill-conceived. But despite all this, the show started and ended being about a family struggling to get by in 1970's Chicago, so on that basis is didn't change enough for me to say it was "ruined".

robyrob · 05-22-2010, 02:17 PM

Jimmy Carter

caladon · 05-22-2010, 02:46 PM

I'd say taking the show in the direction they did was a bad decision. I believe that the powers that be should've listened to John Amos and Esther Rolle when it came to story content and character development.

MickeyMac · 05-22-2010, 02:47 PM

I think John Amos's departure was the beginning of the end of the show. The last few seasons seemed to lack something. Also Jimmie Walker's goofyness got pretty tiresome, and I think people wanted him to grow up some.

Brian Damage · 05-22-2010, 03:22 PM

I loved this show and no doubt it would've stayed a hit if Amos stayed. I respectfully disagree with you Retro4Life, because too many backstage fights and egos led to its demise.

catlover79 · 05-22-2010, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Damage

I loved this show and no doubt it would've stayed a hit if Amos stayed. I respectfully disagree with you Retro4Life, because too many backstage fights and egos led to its demise.

Agreed.

Retro4Life · 05-22-2010, 04:33 PM

I agree the last couple seasons weren't nearly as strong, no argument there. I just think "ruined" is a bit strong a word for it.

On another level, one could argue that by killing off Amos (which as I said, I didn't support) the show COULD have focused on how the family was to survive without the patriarch and for a while they did that. But I would have liked to have seen more shows revolve around J.J.'s attempts to take his father's mantle and the pressure he felt, etc. Instead they chose to make him more and more buffoonish, which in retrospect was a mistake.

But I do think the opportunity for something greater was there, even after Amos left.

Pitooey · 05-23-2010, 12:50 AM

I stopped watching when Thelma married the dummy.

catlover79 · 05-23-2010, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pitooey

I stopped watching when Thelma married the dummy.

Lamont Sanford?? (KIDDING!!!)

Marvo301 · 05-23-2010, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catlover79

Lamont Sanford?? (KIDDING!!!)

She said dummy not big dummy!

catlover79 · 05-23-2010, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marvo301

She said dummy not big dummy!

Well, OK!

Rezny@gmail.com · 05-23-2010, 01:22 AM

I personally think that the powers that be at CBS ruined it.If they had just left it the way it was first season(they all had equal star billing-)they'd have been better off,but in second and third (especially third)season,they tried to capitalize on the popularity of The Fonz on "Happy Days",and make "Good Times" the"J.J."show.Because in the credits for first season of "Good Times",they said "Starring Esther Rolle,John Amos,with Bernadette Stanis,Ralph Carter,Jimmie Walker".HOWEVER,the credits for second (and as I said,)and especially third,the credits read "Starring Esther Rolle,John Amos,with Bernadette Stanis,Ralph Carter"AND "Jimmie Walker as "J.J".No wonder John Amos and (later on,but briefly)the late Esther Rolle quit.

TV Knowledge Fan · 05-23-2010, 01:22 AM

Jimmie Walker.

When the producers and writers began throwing the focus of the series towards "J.J." around 1975, that's when it started to slowly "unravel". He may have become the most popular reason to watch the show, but it came at the expense of everyone else in the cast. John Amos was disgusted enough with "The J.J. Show" to leave in '76, followed by Esther Rolle in '77. She only returned in 1978 when promised that "J.J."- and Jimmie- would be "toned down", and that the scripts would focus more on her (and the rest of the cast). By then, it was too late. Ratings had deteriorated to the point where the series barely managed to survive the season before its cancellation in 1979.

Incidentally, the "dummy" 'Pitooey' is referring to, is Ben Powers as "Keith Anderson" during the final season- the aspiring football player whom J.J. unintentionally injures shortly after his wedding to Thelma, but recovers in time to be accepted by the Chicago Bears in the final episode.

catlover79 · 05-23-2010, 01:36 AM

^ Yeah, I know the "dummy" she meant was Keith. I actually kind of liked him (except when he was drunk and slapped Thelma - but it did lead to Bern Nadette Stanis' finest moment of the whole series where Thelma lets Keith have it). Plus I thought that Ben Powers was cute.

I think there were about 3 episodes from the last season that didn't even make it to air on CBS. They were only seen once the show went into syndication and DVDs.

05-22-2010, 02:00 PM	#1
Brian Damage I'm Rich Bitch Forum Icon Join Date: Feb 03, 2002 Location: What Ain't No Country I Ever Heard Of...They Speak English in What? Posts: 63,107	Who Really RUINED 'Good Times?' Was it Jimmie Walker? Esther Rolle? John Amos? Janet Jackson? CBS? Who do you think was most responsible for this once great sitcoms quality and ultimate demise?
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05-22-2010, 02:12 PM	#2
Retro4Life Accept No Substitutes Forum Veteran Join Date: Feb 04, 2009 Location: IL Posts: 6,708	I disagree with the question's premise. I don't think Good Times was 'ruined'. Sure it wasn't the same show at the end, and I really wish that Amos hadn't left so early, but there were still some laughs to be found and it didn't really go much further than it should have, IMHO. I think Walker's breakout status kind of skewed the story away from the family a bit, and the character of Keith was kind of ill-conceived. But despite all this, the show started and ended being about a family struggling to get by in 1970's Chicago, so on that basis is didn't change enough for me to say it was "ruined".
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05-22-2010, 02:17 PM	#3
robyrob certified wackball#3 Moderator Forum Icon Join Date: Aug 03, 2003 Location: hiding under the third booth at Arnold's Posts: 58,194	Jimmy Carter
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05-23-2010, 12:50 AM	#9
Pitooey Member Forum Star Join Date: Feb 15, 2001 Location: Rocking in Transylvania. Posts: 15,042	I stopped watching when Thelma married the dummy.
	__________________ Pitooey... AKA JennyLee - I love the Monkees all over again! *SAY NO TO DRUGS* Jesus saves...

05-23-2010, 01:22 AM	#14
TV Knowledge Fan Member Senior Member Join Date: Mar 29, 2006 Location: Long Branch, N.J. Posts: 2,577	Only one reason: Jimmie Walker. When the producers and writers began throwing the focus of the series towards "J.J." around 1975, that's when it started to slowly "unravel". He may have become the most popular reason to watch the show, but it came at the expense of everyone else in the cast. John Amos was disgusted enough with "The J.J. Show" to leave in '76, followed by Esther Rolle in '77. She only returned in 1978 when promised that "J.J."- and Jimmie- would be "toned down", and that the scripts would focus more on her (and the rest of the cast). By then, it was too late. Ratings had deteriorated to the point where the series barely managed to survive the season before its cancellation in 1979. Incidentally, the "dummy" 'Pitooey' is referring to, is Ben Powers as "Keith Anderson" during the final season- the aspiring football player whom J.J. unintentionally injures shortly after his wedding to Thelma, but recovers in time to be accepted by the Chicago Bears in the final episode.

05-22-2010, 02:46 PM	#4
caladon Member Senior Member Join Date: Jun 30, 2001 Location: Massachusetts state home for the bewildered Posts: 1,151	I'd say taking the show in the direction they did was a bad decision. I believe that the powers that be should've listened to John Amos and Esther Rolle when it came to story content and character development.

05-22-2010, 02:47 PM	#5
MickeyMac Member Forum Star Join Date: Jun 18, 2008 Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan Posts: 19,006	I think John Amos's departure was the beginning of the end of the show. The last few seasons seemed to lack something. Also Jimmie Walker's goofyness got pretty tiresome, and I think people wanted him to grow up some.

05-22-2010, 03:22 PM	#6
Brian Damage I'm Rich Bitch Forum Icon Join Date: Feb 03, 2002 Location: What Ain't No Country I Ever Heard Of...They Speak English in What? Posts: 63,107	I loved this show and no doubt it would've stayed a hit if Amos stayed. I respectfully disagree with you Retro4Life, because too many backstage fights and egos led to its demise.

05-22-2010, 04:33 PM	#8
Retro4Life Accept No Substitutes Forum Veteran Join Date: Feb 04, 2009 Location: IL Posts: 6,708	I agree the last couple seasons weren't nearly as strong, no argument there. I just think "ruined" is a bit strong a word for it. On another level, one could argue that by killing off Amos (which as I said, I didn't support) the show COULD have focused on how the family was to survive without the patriarch and for a while they did that. But I would have liked to have seen more shows revolve around J.J.'s attempts to take his father's mantle and the pressure he felt, etc. Instead they chose to make him more and more buffoonish, which in retrospect was a mistake. But I do think the opportunity for something greater was there, even after Amos left.

05-23-2010, 01:22 AM	#13
Rezny@gmail.com Member Senior Member Join Date: Jul 20, 2007 Location: Nebraska Posts: 2,675	I personally think that the powers that be at CBS ruined it.If they had just left it the way it was first season(they all had equal star billing-)they'd have been better off,but in second and third (especially third)season,they tried to capitalize on the popularity of The Fonz on "Happy Days",and make "Good Times" the"J.J."show.Because in the credits for first season of "Good Times",they said "Starring Esther Rolle,John Amos,with Bernadette Stanis,Ralph Carter,Jimmie Walker".HOWEVER,the credits for second (and as I said,)and especially third,the credits read "Starring Esther Rolle,John Amos,with Bernadette Stanis,Ralph Carter"AND "Jimmie Walker as "J.J".No wonder John Amos and (later on,but briefly)the late Esther Rolle quit.

05-23-2010, 01:36 AM	#15
catlover79 God Bless Val Forum Addict Join Date: May 29, 2006 Location: Bewitched in Ohio Posts: 70,382	^ Yeah, I know the "dummy" she meant was Keith. I actually kind of liked him (except when he was drunk and slapped Thelma - but it did lead to Bern Nadette Stanis' finest moment of the whole series where Thelma lets Keith have it). Plus I thought that Ben Powers was cute. I think there were about 3 episodes from the last season that didn't even make it to air on CBS. They were only seen once the show went into syndication and DVDs.