Redux: If you Could Meet Anyone Featured on UM...

[Gelatinous Goo]

...Among others, I'd choose George Owens and "Wm. Toomey", the church suicide guy. I would have also liked to befriend the Lost Heirs oldtimer who lived at the YMCA (he probably knew the best place in town for bacon and eggs!) and, quite honestly, the poor steamer trunk chap. God knows he could have used a friend. The photo is not quite as scary if you only thought to place yourself in his shoes for those final days.

How about you?

[Apostapler]

I would have like to have been with David Stone in the desert, not only to help him but because I'm baffled by what was going on in his mind. I'm sure he was delusional, but I'm so curious.

[Hambone2421]

I would like to meet the Zodiac killer. lol

[Gelatinous Goo]

^
I'm not so sure you meant that! Better think it over!

"Quit looking for the beast, David! You must really like pyramids! Hey, on the next stone creation, how's about building a rhombus instead?"

[Hambone2421]

I'm serious. By now, he's either dead or older than dirt. Either way, I doubt he would pose a threat to me.

[Gelatinous Goo]

Actually, I feel the same way. You just end up getting odd looks from people if you ever bring it up in public!

If given the opportunity to meet ANYONE from the last 50 years, Zodiac would certainly be fighting for top candidacy.

[Mastermind]

I would like to meet the Zodiac killer. lol

I think I may have shared posts with the Zodiac Killer on the old Zodiac Killer.com forum.

a couple of years back there was very bizarre poster on the old Zodiac killer.com forum that gave posts that were very bizzare . There was a massive discussion and investigation of it on the board. the concensus was that it wasn;t him. But, there are some on the site who believe it may have been legit. If you ever wander on the Z boards there is a huge discussion about it.

You really have to read his posts...you'll understand what I mean.

I'm serious. By now, he's either dead or older than dirt. Either way, I doubt he would pose a threat to me

A lot of the original investigators on the Zodiac case that are alive, functional and even computer literate. Many of these investigators are older than Z's supposed age bracket.

[Hambone2421]

Originally Posted by Mastermind

I think I may have shared posts with the Zodiac Killer on the old Zodiac Killer.com forum.

a couple of years back there was very bizarre poster on the old Zodiac killer.com forum that gave posts that were very bizzare . There was a massive discussion and investigation of it on the board. the concensus was that it wasn;t him. But, there are some on the site who believe it may have been legit. If you ever wander on the Z boards there is a huge discussion about it.

You really have to read his posts...you'll understand what I mean.

Can you give me a link to that thread?

[The Dutchman]

People I would enjoy meeting that were featured on UM:

1. Keith Reinhard-Sounds like such an interesting, easy-going fellow.
2. Tim Good-Same reasons as Keith Reinhard.
3. Elliot Richardson-He was featured on the Casolaro/Inslaw story,
and besides that, I'm a political junkie (Richardson worked for Nixon/Ford).
4. The couple featured in the hideous 1993 ghost episode where the wife
becomes possessed and takes over the heavy set husband. I mean, what
an interesting meeting that would be!
5. Bob Corbin-He was the former Arizona attorney general featured on The Dutchman segment. He also seems like a nice guy who could give more insight on The Dutchman (and he's another person who was in politics, somewhat).
6. Kevin Poulsen ("Dark Dante")-I know he's a criminal, but he seems like a cool guy.
7. Bob Bean/Pat Snead/Danny Wheeler-No explanation needed for why I'd want to meet them.
8. Clifford Sherwood and his mother-Missing person stories fascinate me, and I feel sorry for both of them.
9. Adam Hecht's mother-I just think with her snooty demeanor on the show, she'd be at least amusing to meet.
10. Michael Anderson (Cindy's father)-I'd meet him to tell him to stop being so self-righteous.
11. Gabriel Carriello-I'd love to see how this guy looks and acts 22 years after his outrageous look and hilarious appearance on UM. I'd want him to start chanting like he did in the McFall segment.
12. A.J. Breaux-Someone else who seems like a nice person.
13. The White Trash rednecks living by the railroad in the Audrey Moate story. I might have to bring law enforcement when visiting those wackos (and not talk any of my "trash talk").
14. Robert Stack/Dennis Farina/Karl Malden/Raymond Burr-I think Robert Stack was Mr. Unsolved Mysteries, and no one came close to him, but I think all four of these people have contributed to a fine show of 23 years (and they're all great actors besides that).

[Mastermind]

Are you on zodicakiller.com, hambone? Because a link would only work unless you could log on.

But i have an excerpt from a post by one of the forum regulars regarding "Oscar".

NOTE: A lot of this depends on whether you believe Richard Gaikowski is the Zodiac Killer.

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Post subject: Parallels between Gyke and "Oscar" on old board Reply with quote
Since Richard Gaikowski had an interest in online discussion forums as far back as the 1980s, I wondered about the possibility of a Zodiac suspect joining a Zodiac-related discussion forum and even participating in discussions. So I started going through one of the archived boards on this site and looked for postings that might have something in common or somehow relate to Richard.

I was pretty surprised to find a lot of parallels between Gyke and someone who went by the nickname "Oscar" on the archived forums. I am in no way suggesting they were one and the same, but the connections and even his comments about Zodiac's crimes really jumped out at me. Here are some of the more interesting ones...

Oscar wrote...

Quote:
Your refutation of my original posting was based on the fact that I used Graysmith as "documentation". It is a SECONDARY source, not a PRIMARY source. Technically, even a detective is not a primary source on a case;he is analgous to the historian using evidence as a primary source to develop a thesis that will resolve a case. The detective can not be a primary source, as he/she was not present during the commission of the crime. Therefore, interviewing a detective, or reading their reports, constitutes usage of a secondary source.

Interesting that Oscar appears to have some type of writing/journalism background or experience like Richard.

Oscar wrote...

Quote:
Yeah, sure. Zodiac wore a KKK outfit at LB, which is why he was able to 'blend' into the countryside so well. San Francisco and area was known for its rampant racial intolerance throughtout the turbulent sixties. In fact, Zodiac left a burning cross on Ferrin's front lawn, but the Vallejo police screwed the pooch on that one when the local captain took it home and used it for firewood (darn!). Paul Stine was a freedom rider.Therefore, he was targeted for death by an ultra-elite KKK hit squad run by Z, who just happened to need a cab that night after failing to find a solo Black Panther to lynch.
Come on! Get your head out of the glue-bag!


Oscar clearly does not care for Zodiac's costume being compared to a KKK outfit.

Oscar wrote...

Quote:
Consider yourself flamed. Be thankful that I am capable of restraint.
Oscar the Vigilant.
p.s.: "Whent they kick at your front door
How you gonna' come?
With your hands on your head,
Or on the trigger of your gun?"


Oscar and Gyke obviously shared an interest in punk bands.

Oscar wrote...

Quote:
Speaking of speculation/theories etc., has anyone ever developed a theory that Z may have been a homosexual? I know there was some talk of this due to the fact that Z seemed incapable of killing male victims (sidebar- why is Farraday forgotten, or so it seems?), but I have not seen a real development of the idea. It would make for entertaining reading.


Interesting comment since Gyke was homosexual -- I wonder why Oscar thinks this would make for "entertaining reading."

Oscar wrote...

Quote:
but would you prefer the alternative: total Gestapo-like powers afforded to the local, state, and federal authorities? Spout your nonsense when you hear the thunderous crunch of jackboots reverberating in your street.


Just one example of Oscar's anti-police sentiment.

Oscar wrote...

Quote:
Despite the denials of the SFPD, he was actually stopped for a brief time by a patrol car who asked him for information.


Oscar seems pretty confident about this piece of information way back in 2001. He later allows that it may not have happened when he is challenged by Tom on this fact. Still made me wonder, though.

Oscar wrote...

Quote:
Zodiac left his print(s) on the inside of Stine's cab.


How would Oscar know this piece of information? He states it as a fact rather than an assumption.

Oscar wrote...

Quote:
This is not to say that he did not speak to his other victims as well; in fact, it is most likely that he had to say something to Stine. For all we know, Zodiac may have read bad poetry to his other victims. However, Zodiac never bothered to check whether or not his victims were silenced.


How would Oscar know this fact when both Faraday and Jensen were killed?!

Oscar wrote...

Quote:
Pam,
In all seriousness I would suggest that you prrovide board members with access to your email account, in the event that Mageau occassionally visits the site. It is probably not the case, but if you have some serious questions for him, you may not want to show your hand. Will you be reporting on your meeting at some point in time? I, for one, would be very interested in hearing what happens.


Very odd, in my opinion, that Oscar wants access to Pam's email account regarding her contact with Mageau. Does he also sound a bit wary of Mageau? Notice the misspellings also.

Oscar wrote...

Quote:
p.s. I met a guy who lived in San Francisco during the late 1960's. I would tell you his name, except he couldn't remember it himself


Hmm...I wonder who this guy was.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Second excerpt:

This one below gave me chills.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post subject: Reply with quote
In the thread linked below, oscar speaks out against police misbehavior. Sound familiar?


"I think Toschi had good intentions, and God knows that the man wanted to nail Z, but I do not think that his behavior was appropriate or ethical. I live in LA. I assume you have heard of our illustrious Rampart division of the LAPD? If we allow the cops the kind of liberties that Toschi took, what precendent are we setting? What next- planting evidence on someone; breaking into someone's house to conduct an illegal search?Come on, there are larger issues at work here!
Toschi probably wanted to keep the case a priority. We all know that the cops were (if you weigh the evidence) more interested in watching "Barney Miller" than in acting like cops at the time. But, my friend, at what cost do we keep a case 'hot'? If things had gone differently, the letter and the "Pines" card (if he was behind that as well) could have been acted upon to someone's detriment. God forbid we give the police this latitude through legislation or through apathetic responses to police misconduct. What Toschi did was wrong and he deserved what he got! It's too bad that he tarnished his name with such an idiotic and desperate ploy.
Ed, I suppose you are a big fan of Dirty Harry too, eh?
Pissed (and loving it!),
Oscar.
p.s. I have the highest regard for detective Toschi prior to the beginning of his writing career."
_________________

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[Mastermind]

Some suspicious things regarding this poster "Oscar".

1. He always claimed he was in his 20s, but gave details about the 1960s and 1970s like he was there and lived through. Specific details regarding clubs in the area that were well beyond what someone his age would know.

2. He had a sneaky way of flirting with the male posters (or presumed male posters). A lot of his language suggested that he was gay. This in and of itself is not suspicious, except that his name and his phrases appeared to be taken from Oscar Wilde. Indicative of the "games" that Z liked to play in his letters.

3. Oscar's posts ended roughly the same time Richard Gaikowski died.
(though new evidence suggests that he has appeared under a new

4. IMHO, His writing style was the closest I have seen to Zodiac's. If he was a prankster...he knew the case and Z's style extremely well.

5. He only posted during times when new developments came on the case. when a new suspect was been tested for DNA. At one time he emailed me to see if I knew the name of a suspect or if I knew where Tom Voigt was going.

It was odd behavior that went a little beyond just a simple prankster.

[Hambone2421]

I am on that website. I was going to send you a private message a while back to give you my username on there but it wont let me private message you.

[Hambone2421]

Originally Posted by Mastermind

3. Oscar's posts ended roughly the same time Richard Gaikowski died.
(though new evidence suggests that he has appeared under a new

That is very telling. I'm in my 20's and I had always been interested in the Zodiac case, but in college (I was a criminal justice major), one of our professors gave each person in the class (30 total students) a project to write on a famous case, incident or day in CJ history. He handed them out randomly and I got the Zodiac case. I became obsessed with it. Gaikowski was someone I had considered but I guess most of my energy went into Arthur Leigh Allen (and this was before the movie came out). I'll have to read more on Gaikowski although he looks just like the composite sketch.

[Mastermind]

Hambone,

I had to shut my IM a month back, because some nut was bugging me about the Tony Lombardi case.

I will turn it back on shortly.

He handed them out randomly and I got the Zodiac case. I became obsessed with it.

yes it is an addictive case.
I don;t think there will ever be case like the Zodiac killer. There are so many elements to it. Codes, masked identities, conflicting Modus Operandi, bomb threats, letters, etc...

Heck you could write a book alone on the investigators involved in the case.

Dave Toschi's career as a detective is fascinating enough without the Zodiac case.

I'll have to read more on Gaikowski although he looks just like the composite sketch.

Definitely read up on Gaikowski. He's as much a character as Arthur Leigh Allen.

I'll give you a couple of things that are againts Gaikowski being Z.
1. Gyke was never in the military or a police officer.
2. There is a huge question as to whether Gyke was in the country to committ two of the murders. (this is being debated and looked into).
3. Much like with Arthur Leigh Allen, Gaikowskis was brough to light by someone ratting on him. This person "Blaine Blaine" is an unemployed derlict. The FBI investigated Gaikowski based on Blaine's conversations with Gaikowski. In short, Blaine is as good or bad a witness as Don Cheney was for Leigh Allen.
4. The FBI has held off on testing Richard Gaikowski's DNA for some reason. Ken Narlow the Napa investigator dismissed Blaines accusations.

[tiddlywinks950]

Judith Hyams. That case bothers me so much....I would love to talk to her to find out what happened.