The saddest episode I have ever seen. - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

jewlmc · 12-11-2001, 12:59 PM

I knew she left but it still SUCKED. I felt so bad for Sam. He knew she wasn't coming back, and his fantasies of them old killed me. When they showed the next season at 12:00.... it just wasn't the same. It's funny considering I always used to like the Kirstie Alley ones better(And I have to say I still DIED laughing at the "I on sports.) As if it weren't bad enough they had to have him say to Rebecca "I expected to come here and see HER face everywhere I looked..."

*sigh*

TV Guy · 12-11-2001, 09:25 PM

Agreed -- it was very sad, but it was definitely more satisfying than if they had broken up for the umpteenth time. And I liked how Sam mentioned Diane, not by name, in the first Kirstie Alley episode. This is when "Cheers" still had heart. Then, after Alley's first season, the producers changed, and so did the show -- much more gag-oriented, less emotional depth, and never as clever (or at least not as often).

"Cheers" is really two shows under the same title -- a romantic comedy for the first five years with Diane, and an ensemble centering around the bar for the last six years. For the first five years, the premise is that Sam and Diane really DO belong together, but the second phase of the show makes Diane the butt of bad jokes. Unfortunately, the finale was true to the second premise of the show, not the original, and Sam and Diane did not end up together. This was even more disappointing than Diane's departure, IMHO.

Freakzilla · 12-12-2001, 11:47 AM

I totally agree about the 2 shows/same title thing. I like them both, though. To me, it's refreshing when season 6 starts and everything is totally different.

The thing that disappoints me now about the finale is not that Sam and Diane didn't stay together. What disappoints me is Drunk Becky. They had an opportunity to fulfill a fan dream. What if Diane and Rebecca met? If Diane had met the early tough Rebecca, they would have been friends. It might have been hilarious to hear these two intelligent women talk about their relationships with Sam and stuff. Unfortunately, Diane met Drunk Becky.

Mcfly · 12-12-2001, 01:57 PM

Sam's "Have a good life" was the most poingnant line of the series. And the music chosen for his image of dancing with Diane as oldsters was pefectly sweet. Which makes me REALLY wish they had captured that kind of emotion in the final moments of the totally lackluster final episode years later that ended the show. "I'm the luckiest SOB on earth" was good (which probly read more into Danson's mind than Sam's) but him walking into the darkness of the poolroom was lame.

moofomoo · 12-12-2001, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TV Guy
For the first five years, the premise is that Sam and Diane really DO belong together, but the second phase of the show makes Diane the butt of bad jokes.

But Diane was best at the butt of jokes...be they good or bad. Actually, that's where I liked her, when she was made fun of. (But then again, my favorite character was Carla who despised her from day 1.)

**Gracie moo**

Oh well

Cheers1912 · 12-12-2001, 05:01 PM

I can't believe she would actually leave. If I was in that situation I propably wouldn't go. I mean, I know Shelley had to leave the show, but come on. Diane wouldn't have left Sam to write a book, and if she did, she would have wanted Sam to go to Maine with her. They would get married there. And that "Have a nice life" stuff is corny! You don't say "Have a nice life" to your fiance, even if you don't expect them to come back! I hate the way the producers wrote that episode, but at least it wasn't killing her off!

TV Guy · 12-13-2001, 12:20 AM

Yeah, I have to admit that I found the explanation for Diane's leaving a little baffling -- you can't write and have a personal life? At the very least, she and Sam could have seen each other on weekends while she finished the book. After all, Maine is only a few hours from Boston. But they had to write her out, and they wanted a more upbeat ending than having Sam and Diane get into another knock-down drag-out, so I guess the book idea was as good as any.

I like the conversation they have as Diane is getting ready to leave the bar, but I agree that the "Have a nice life" line is a little corny. I mean, who says that, even if it's to someone you'll never see again? I know that they were trying to get the point across that Sam knew she wasn't coming back, but it could have gone something like this:

Sam: "Well, Diane, best of luck."
Diane: "Sam, this isn't the end. I'll be back in six months."
Sam: "Well, I could die, you could die"...

and you know how the rest goes.

I actually do like it when Diane is the butt of jokes, too. One of my favorites is the ballet episode. But I didn't like how after she was gone, they made it out like she was the wicked witch, and Sam was better off without her. Anyone could see that they were a great couple, especially during her last year on the show.

I also like the beginning of season 6. As much as I liked Diane, the show wouldn't have lasted as long had she stuck around. The whole setup with Rebecca running the bar was fresh. They just showed the one where Norm paints her office and gets to know her better. I like how they gradually progress from her being a total stranger (she didn't even know who Frasier was in one episode tonight), to being on a first-name basis. And the subplot with her being in love with her boss, Evan Drake, produced some great moments. There are some great episodes during this season -- it's the following season, when they started to dumb down the Rebecca character, that things started slipping a bit.

Mcfly · 12-13-2001, 01:46 AM

"Yes" to the comments about Diane needing to go to Maine and write a book. You can't write locally? Don't want "Cheers" a distraction? Quit! Don't work or hang around there! From your rise in the morning to when you go to bed, hit that typewriter (hey, it was '87) and finish you're ALREADY started book.

But a "no" to Sam and Diane being a great couple. That's why the show worked so well...they were so wrong for each other. Diane's superior intellect to Sam's simple minded approach to things was great fodder. The John Cleese character (the British marriage counselor) hit the nail on the head several times. I feel Diane belonged with someone like Sumner or Frasier.

And I was disappointed that you guys thought Sam's "Have a good life" was corny. The one I was referring to was after Diane went up the steps, not as she was leaving.

jewlmc · 12-13-2001, 12:26 PM

Intellect and all that aside...

She was a nut... and he was a nut. Not only that, they both thought they were gods gift. For those reasons they were a perfect fit.

TV Guy · 12-13-2001, 01:49 PM

I agree that on paper, Sam and Diane don't have much in common, and that she would be better off with someone who shares her interests. But Ted Danson and Shelley Long are one of those rare on-screen couples who have wonderful chemistry, which is why I liked Sam and Diane together. I'm also going to include a quote from Harry and Wally's Favorite TV Shows (a great book!) which describes why I think they're good together:

"In the fantasy track, it's all quite different. In that, the two are content in their golden years, looking back over a happy life together. This part of the story is very effective and demonstrates why, quite frankly, the two of them should be married. They complement each other perfectly, with Diane helping Sam to be more genuinely affectionate, considerate, and responsible, while he makes her feel more comfortable with people and self-confident about herself."

But I know a lot of people who don't like them together, so to each his own.

Thanks for clarifying about the "Have a good life line." I think this is very effective when Sam says to himself it as she's walking up the steps - I just don't like it when he says it to her before that.

jewlmc · 12-13-2001, 05:03 PM

First of all Sumners a DOPE. He doesn't belong with anyone, he is in love with himself..

As for Frasier, Lilith was his perfect match. I understand that Bebe Newirth doesn't like the sitcom format so they had to break them up to. I love when she guest stars on Frasier. I wonder if the reason he hasn't found anyone significant is that they are planning on putting them back together at the end of Frasier. Because honestly they were a perfect match.

The only other person I would like Frasier with is Roz

Mcfly · 12-13-2001, 09:30 PM

Glad to hear you agree about Sam's line, tvguy. And I'm not saying Ted and Shelley weren't great onscreen, just that if I saw them (Sam and Diane) together in real life, I'd think it looked like trouble for them.

Yes, Sumner was a dork. But just on a intellectual level, Diane would have fit him well. And I think, too, that Fraze will end up with Roz in the end.

Diane Chambers-Malone · 12-29-2001, 03:45 PM

Sumner is the most disgusting person I have ever seen. He not only looks like a haggered old man, but is also the poorest excuse for a human being. He has zero emotion. Diane may have come across as an intellectual, but as the seasons went on, she loosened up and wasn't as outward about it. Diane was who she was. I feel that Diane would never have been compatable with Sumner. Although Diane was an intellect, she was also a very warm and loving person, who wanted emotion and love from other people. Sam may not have been able to talk about great literature with Diane, but I don't think that ever or would have ever mattered to Diane. Sam provided a true love and warmth that a person like Sumner would not have given her. I think that Sam and Diane's love could have endured. They were through too much throughout the show. The time they broke up and Diane went to Connecticut. The times when they would argue and disagree. None of their friends thought that they should be married, or even together, but they fought through that, and they were just as in love on the last episode as they were in the first season. Love like that is not something so easily found, and they knew that. I shame the writers for not giving us fans the thrill of being able to see them walk down the aisle. We, too, had been through the ups and downs of their relationship. We, as they did, deserved a happy ending.

FOLN@NFan · 12-29-2001, 04:14 PM

Diane definately softened up during her years at Cheers. remember the ep where Cliff asked her to the Postman's Ball? She was in a Cheese Club!

Doug

Cheers1912 · 01-06-2002, 04:40 AM

Alright, I admit that Sam saying "Have a good life" to himself (directed to Diane) after she walked out was kind of sweet, but I didn't like him saying it to her face. I think he could have done that "Best of luck" thing to her face and she says that she will see him in 6 month, and then he still does the line when she's out the door. Do you know that saying "When one door closes, another door opens"? Well, seriously, what door opened when the door at Cheers closed after Diane left? That is something to think about. You can't say he got women again, because he never forgot Diane. He didn't have the bar, he had his few close friends, I mean, he really didn't have a thing after she left!

Frasier and Roz make a cute couple. I think Lilith and Frasier were just a little too, what's the word, compulsive. They needed everything perfect, and neither of them were perfect. They did make an okay pair though.

Sam and Diane weren't the best couple, but definatly the cutest! Shelley and Ted did have the chemistry though. I think the only reason Sam and Diane are perfect for each other is that they both love each other, and they always have. I mean, you take how they first got together, how they both tried to go back to each other in "I'll Be Seeing You", and how they always wanted to make the other jealous of their other relationship. It was a "race of wills" as Diane put it, but they were tied, and that made it what it is.

12-11-2001, 12:59 PM	#1
jewlmc Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Dec 03, 2001 Location: Niagara Falls, N.Y. 14301 Posts: 53	The saddest episode I have ever seen. I knew she left but it still SUCKED. I felt so bad for Sam. He knew she wasn't coming back, and his fantasies of them old killed me. When they showed the next season at 12:00.... it just wasn't the same. It's funny considering I always used to like the Kirstie Alley ones better(And I have to say I still DIED laughing at the "I on sports.) As if it weren't bad enough they had to have him say to Rebecca "I expected to come here and see HER face everywhere I looked..." sigh
	__________________ Lover of ALL good sitcoms.

12-12-2001, 05:01 PM	#6
Cheers1912 Sitcom Cutie Occasional Poster Join Date: Oct 31, 2001 Location: Wherever I am Posts: 87	I can't believe she would actually leave. If I was in that situation I propably wouldn't go. I mean, I know Shelley had to leave the show, but come on. Diane wouldn't have left Sam to write a book, and if she did, she would have wanted Sam to go to Maine with her. They would get married there. And that "Have a nice life" stuff is corny! You don't say "Have a nice life" to your fiance, even if you don't expect them to come back! I hate the way the producers wrote that episode, but at least it wasn't killing her off!
	__________________ <center>~Diane~ ************** If practice makes perfect, But nobody's perfect, Then why practice? ************** <html><center><b>Which <i>Friends</i> Character are You?</b><br> <img src="http://members.aol.com/ellen112/images/monica.jpg"><br> Take this <a href="http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php?client=friendschrcter">Quiz</a> Made by <a href="mailto:ellen112@aol.com">eLLeN112</a>. </center>

12-13-2001, 05:03 PM	#11
jewlmc Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Dec 03, 2001 Location: Niagara Falls, N.Y. 14301 Posts: 53	About Frasier/Sumner First of all Sumners a DOPE. He doesn't belong with anyone, he is in love with himself.. As for Frasier, Lilith was his perfect match. I understand that Bebe Newirth doesn't like the sitcom format so they had to break them up to. I love when she guest stars on Frasier. I wonder if the reason he hasn't found anyone significant is that they are planning on putting them back together at the end of Frasier. Because honestly they were a perfect match. The only other person I would like Frasier with is Roz

12-29-2001, 03:45 PM	#13
Diane Chambers-Malone "Shelley Long Fan" Frequent Poster Join Date: Dec 28, 2001 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 136	Sumner is the most disgusting person I have ever seen. He not only looks like a haggered old man, but is also the poorest excuse for a human being. He has zero emotion. Diane may have come across as an intellectual, but as the seasons went on, she loosened up and wasn't as outward about it. Diane was who she was. I feel that Diane would never have been compatable with Sumner. Although Diane was an intellect, she was also a very warm and loving person, who wanted emotion and love from other people. Sam may not have been able to talk about great literature with Diane, but I don't think that ever or would have ever mattered to Diane. Sam provided a true love and warmth that a person like Sumner would not have given her. I think that Sam and Diane's love could have endured. They were through too much throughout the show. The time they broke up and Diane went to Connecticut. The times when they would argue and disagree. None of their friends thought that they should be married, or even together, but they fought through that, and they were just as in love on the last episode as they were in the first season. Love like that is not something so easily found, and they knew that. I shame the writers for not giving us fans the thrill of being able to see them walk down the aisle. We, too, had been through the ups and downs of their relationship. We, as they did, deserved a happy ending.
	__________________ ~Alanna~ ~"I'm not perfect, but I'd like to be perfect. I'm working on it."-Shelley Long~ ~"Let Light and Love Prevail"-Shelley Long~ ~Sam: "I've never met an intelligent woman I'd want to date!" Diane: On behalf of all of the intelligent women around the world, let me just say 'WHEW!' "~ *DCheersFanC@aol.com*

12-11-2001, 09:25 PM	#2
TV Guy Member Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 25, 2001 Location: Boston, MA, USA Posts: 3,419	Agreed -- it was very sad, but it was definitely more satisfying than if they had broken up for the umpteenth time. And I liked how Sam mentioned Diane, not by name, in the first Kirstie Alley episode. This is when "Cheers" still had heart. Then, after Alley's first season, the producers changed, and so did the show -- much more gag-oriented, less emotional depth, and never as clever (or at least not as often). "Cheers" is really two shows under the same title -- a romantic comedy for the first five years with Diane, and an ensemble centering around the bar for the last six years. For the first five years, the premise is that Sam and Diane really DO belong together, but the second phase of the show makes Diane the butt of bad jokes. Unfortunately, the finale was true to the second premise of the show, not the original, and Sam and Diane did not end up together. This was even more disappointing than Diane's departure, IMHO.

12-12-2001, 11:47 AM	#3
Freakzilla Member Forum Regular Join Date: May 23, 2000 Location: Portage, Michigan, United States Posts: 556	I totally agree about the 2 shows/same title thing. I like them both, though. To me, it's refreshing when season 6 starts and everything is totally different. The thing that disappoints me now about the finale is not that Sam and Diane didn't stay together. What disappoints me is Drunk Becky. They had an opportunity to fulfill a fan dream. What if Diane and Rebecca met? If Diane had met the early tough Rebecca, they would have been friends. It might have been hilarious to hear these two intelligent women talk about their relationships with Sam and stuff. Unfortunately, Diane met Drunk Becky.

12-12-2001, 01:57 PM	#4
Mcfly Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Aug 06, 2001 Location: ca Posts: 374	Sam's "Have a good life" was the most poingnant line of the series. And the music chosen for his image of dancing with Diane as oldsters was pefectly sweet. Which makes me REALLY wish they had captured that kind of emotion in the final moments of the totally lackluster final episode years later that ended the show. "I'm the luckiest SOB on earth" was good (which probly read more into Danson's mind than Sam's) but him walking into the darkness of the poolroom was lame.

12-13-2001, 12:20 AM	#7
TV Guy Member Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 25, 2001 Location: Boston, MA, USA Posts: 3,419	Yeah, I have to admit that I found the explanation for Diane's leaving a little baffling -- you can't write and have a personal life? At the very least, she and Sam could have seen each other on weekends while she finished the book. After all, Maine is only a few hours from Boston. But they had to write her out, and they wanted a more upbeat ending than having Sam and Diane get into another knock-down drag-out, so I guess the book idea was as good as any. I like the conversation they have as Diane is getting ready to leave the bar, but I agree that the "Have a nice life" line is a little corny. I mean, who says that, even if it's to someone you'll never see again? I know that they were trying to get the point across that Sam knew she wasn't coming back, but it could have gone something like this: Sam: "Well, Diane, best of luck." Diane: "Sam, this isn't the end. I'll be back in six months." Sam: "Well, I could die, you could die"... and you know how the rest goes. I actually do like it when Diane is the butt of jokes, too. One of my favorites is the ballet episode. But I didn't like how after she was gone, they made it out like she was the wicked witch, and Sam was better off without her. Anyone could see that they were a great couple, especially during her last year on the show. I also like the beginning of season 6. As much as I liked Diane, the show wouldn't have lasted as long had she stuck around. The whole setup with Rebecca running the bar was fresh. They just showed the one where Norm paints her office and gets to know her better. I like how they gradually progress from her being a total stranger (she didn't even know who Frasier was in one episode tonight), to being on a first-name basis. And the subplot with her being in love with her boss, Evan Drake, produced some great moments. There are some great episodes during this season -- it's the following season, when they started to dumb down the Rebecca character, that things started slipping a bit.

12-13-2001, 01:46 AM	#8
Mcfly Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Aug 06, 2001 Location: ca Posts: 374	"Yes" to the comments about Diane needing to go to Maine and write a book. You can't write locally? Don't want "Cheers" a distraction? Quit! Don't work or hang around there! From your rise in the morning to when you go to bed, hit that typewriter (hey, it was '87) and finish you're ALREADY started book. But a "no" to Sam and Diane being a great couple. That's why the show worked so well...they were so wrong for each other. Diane's superior intellect to Sam's simple minded approach to things was great fodder. The John Cleese character (the British marriage counselor) hit the nail on the head several times. I feel Diane belonged with someone like Sumner or Frasier. And I was disappointed that you guys thought Sam's "Have a good life" was corny. The one I was referring to was after Diane went up the steps, not as she was leaving.

12-13-2001, 12:26 PM	#9
jewlmc Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Dec 03, 2001 Location: Niagara Falls, N.Y. 14301 Posts: 53	Intellect and all that aside... She was a nut... and he was a nut. Not only that, they both thought they were gods gift. For those reasons they were a perfect fit.

12-13-2001, 01:49 PM	#10
TV Guy Member Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 25, 2001 Location: Boston, MA, USA Posts: 3,419	I agree that on paper, Sam and Diane don't have much in common, and that she would be better off with someone who shares her interests. But Ted Danson and Shelley Long are one of those rare on-screen couples who have wonderful chemistry, which is why I liked Sam and Diane together. I'm also going to include a quote from Harry and Wally's Favorite TV Shows (a great book!) which describes why I think they're good together: "In the fantasy track, it's all quite different. In that, the two are content in their golden years, looking back over a happy life together. This part of the story is very effective and demonstrates why, quite frankly, the two of them should be married. They complement each other perfectly, with Diane helping Sam to be more genuinely affectionate, considerate, and responsible, while he makes her feel more comfortable with people and self-confident about herself." But I know a lot of people who don't like them together, so to each his own. Thanks for clarifying about the "Have a good life line." I think this is very effective when Sam says to himself it as she's walking up the steps - I just don't like it when he says it to her before that.

12-13-2001, 09:30 PM	#12
Mcfly Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Aug 06, 2001 Location: ca Posts: 374	Glad to hear you agree about Sam's line, tvguy. And I'm not saying Ted and Shelley weren't great onscreen, just that if I saw them (Sam and Diane) together in real life, I'd think it looked like trouble for them. Yes, Sumner was a dork. But just on a intellectual level, Diane would have fit him well. And I think, too, that Fraze will end up with Roz in the end.

12-29-2001, 04:14 PM	#14
FOLN@NFan Member Forum Regular Join Date: Jan 27, 2001 Location: PA Posts: 706	Diane definately softened up during her years at Cheers. remember the ep where Cliff asked her to the Postman's Ball? She was in a Cheese Club! Doug

01-06-2002, 04:40 AM	#15
Cheers1912 Sitcom Cutie Occasional Poster Join Date: Oct 31, 2001 Location: Wherever I am Posts: 87	Alright, I admit that Sam saying "Have a good life" to himself (directed to Diane) after she walked out was kind of sweet, but I didn't like him saying it to her face. I think he could have done that "Best of luck" thing to her face and she says that she will see him in 6 month, and then he still does the line when she's out the door. Do you know that saying "When one door closes, another door opens"? Well, seriously, what door opened when the door at Cheers closed after Diane left? That is something to think about. You can't say he got women again, because he never forgot Diane. He didn't have the bar, he had his few close friends, I mean, he really didn't have a thing after she left! Frasier and Roz make a cute couple. I think Lilith and Frasier were just a little too, what's the word, compulsive. They needed everything perfect, and neither of them were perfect. They did make an okay pair though. Sam and Diane weren't the best couple, but definatly the cutest! Shelley and Ted did have the chemistry though. I think the only reason Sam and Diane are perfect for each other is that they both love each other, and they always have. I mean, you take how they first got together, how they both tried to go back to each other in "I'll Be Seeing You", and how they always wanted to make the other jealous of their other relationship. It was a "race of wills" as Diane put it, but they were tied, and that made it what it is.