Cecilia Newball and Rene Perez

[starmushrooms]

I just saw this case and was wondering what everyone else thought about it. Cecilia was 8 1/2 months pregnant when she and her son Rene went missing in 1994. According to her husband he saw the two of them before he left for work and when he returned home they were gone. The only things left were a Goodbye card and her wedding rings in their jeep.

Several months before she went missing Cecilia reportedly got a call from a woman who claimed to have a picture showing her husband kissing another woman. The same woman called again months later offering to show her baby furniture on the day she went missing.

Something about the husband doesn't sit well with me. He seemed sincere in some parts but rather unworried in other parts. But, I was also working with the theory Cecilia was being stalked by a woman who wanted her baby. It's possible, but pretty slim. The other idea is she was taken out of the picture by someone who was having an affair with her husband.

I don't understand the last one though. If someone did do that, why? Why not just show her the evidence and let Cecilia leave her husband? I'm going to assume Cecilia told others about the calls and this isn't just coming from her husband.

Personally, I think they are dead and I'm not buying it that she took her son and left for Honduras. I would like to know if they could lift prints from the second envelope that was mailed to the husband days after she went missing, or if the calls could ever be traced.

[mah79]

Hi Star Mushrooms,
The Cecelia Newball case has always intrigued me. I often visit their profile pages on the Charley Project. I too don't believe that Cecelia and Rene could be alive, after all this time. To my knowledge, Cecelia had informed her friends about the mysterious phone calls. I remember on the segment that one of her friends was describing the baby shower phone call.
Hmm...I never thought about the possibility of an affair with Alfredo. But i have always thought about the possibility that Cecelia and Rene were kidnapped by a woman who wanted a baby. I hear about those stories in the news, of women who have faked a pregnancy, and who will kidnap a newborn or unborn child from their birth mother. These women fake pregnancies for a variety of reasons. Sometimes they can't have children of their own, or they have lost a pregnancy, or they kidnap b/c they believe that a pregnancy and an infant will help them to hold onto a fragile relationship, etc., etc. I remember this very interesting program that I saw on TLC a few years back, which creates psychological profiles of these women. It is called I'd Kill For a Baby. IN fact, one of the cases that this episode profiled was Carlina White's case. Carlina was an infant abducted from Harlem Hospital, and she was mentioned in passing int he Marlene Santana kidnapping story. SO, I really do have my suspicions that Cecelia, who was almost at the point of delivery, could have fallen prey to such a kidnapper or potential killer. And perhaps Rene could also have been kidnapped and murdered because he would have been a witness.
I also have 2 questions that have been bugging me about this case:
1) What do you think about the police's theory that the mystery woman was someone that Cecelia knew? THe police mentioned something that whoever made the phone calls or wrote the "goodbye letter" knew more about Alfredo's side of the family than Cecelia's. Perhaps this woman knew Cecelia enough that Cecelia thought that she could trust her. Perhaps this woman used Cecelia's trust to lure her away from safety.
2) Do you think there is the possibility taht Cecelia's child could be alive, especially if Cecelia was kidnapped for her baby? Do you think taht there could be the possibility that a 16 year old child is somewhere out there, not knowing the story about his or her mother? (LIke how Carlina White and Marlene Santana are most likely living their lives?) Cecelia's chlid would have been viable, at 8 months old.

[Mastermind]

1) What do you think about the police's theory that the mystery woman was someone that Cecelia knew? THe police mentioned something that whoever made the phone calls or wrote the "goodbye letter" knew more about Alfredo's side of the family than Cecelia's. Perhaps this woman knew Cecelia enough that Cecelia thought that she could trust her. Perhaps this woman used Cecelia's trust to lure her away from safety.

1. Perhaps a jealous love killed Cecilia and the child.
2. Alfredo or someone he hired offed both.
3. They were both adbucted as markers for some "debt" that Alfredo has.

Do you think there is the possibility taht Cecelia's child could be alive, especially if Cecelia was kidnapped for her baby? Do you think taht there could be the possibility that a 16 year old child is somewhere out there, not knowing the story about his or her mother? (LIke how Carlina White and Marlene Santana are most likely living their lives?) Cecelia's chlid would have been viable, at 8 months old.

There is a remote possibility...

A lot depends on the whether the abduction was....
1. Amateur? (desperate mother)
2. Professional (baby smuggling ring)

One problem with this case is Rene...Once Cecilia was captured...what did the abductor do with Rene? If any attempt was done to kill him..I would have to imagine that Cecilia would not stand by idle. The abductor would be at a disadvantage in that he would have to attack Cecilia to get to the child. I suppose a gun could have been used. Still the kid remains a problem here.

To me the fact that Rene is among the missing is a huge factor in this case. It leads me to believe that both Rene and Cecilia were killed.

[starmushrooms]

Originally Posted by Mastermind

1. Perhaps a jealous love killed Cecilia and the child.
2. Alfredo or someone he hired offed both.
3. They were both adbucted as markers for some "debt" that Alfredo has.



There is a remote possibility...

A lot depends on the whether the abduction was....
1. Amateur? (desperate mother)
2. Professional (baby smuggling ring)

One problem with this case is Rene...Once Cecilia was captured...what did the abductor do with Rene? If any attempt was done to kill him..I would have to imagine that Cecilia would not stand by idle. The abductor would be at a disadvantage in that he would have to attack Cecilia to get to the child. I suppose a gun could have been used. Still the kid remains a problem here.

To me the fact that Rene is among the missing is a huge factor in this case. It leads me to believe that both Rene and Cecilia were killed.

I was thinking the same thing you were thinking in the last part. Rene doesn't make sense. Though there is a chance someone desperate for a baby killed Cecilia, as you said Rene is a problem.

Even if someone killed the mother Rene was old enough that even if he wasn't killed he could still tell someone about what happened to his mother. Or, if Rene was kept seperate from his mother it isn't hard to think someone could have told him his mother died and now they had to take care of him and the new baby, if the baby was stolen and lived.

I still can't help but think Rene would have said something through the years if he was still alive. This is why I believe he was killed along with his mother, and I also believe Alfredo knows something about what happened to them and isn't about to say anything.

Another thing I thought of is whether prints could be pulled from her wedding ring to see if someone else removed them from her and placed them in the jeep.

[crystaldawn]

I think thats a great theory mah79 and one I had never thought of - that someone who wanted a baby may have kidnapped Cecelia and her son. I wonder if it was in the original plan to bring her son along if she indeed go to that meeting that was mentioned. Perhaps the person responsible (if it did happen this way) didn't realize she had a son. I never thought the husband had anything to do with it. He seemed genuine. I had considered that maybe Cecelia really did leave him but if she were going to "confess" it to him in a letter she would have certainly went ahead and packed up all her belongings and took with her.

[LAdude1984]

Theres no mention of anything like a big life insurance policy, no suspicious moves clear on the part of Alfredo that would conclusively point to him with the exception of a NEARBY postmarked letter, the ring, etc. I think its a 50/50 chance that Alfredo Newball was involved. But I think its a 98 per cent chance that Cecilia, and her children were kidnapped, and either were killed and dumped in the vast mountains someplace outside los angeles, OR were kidnapped for, as aformentioned by another post... perhaps a baby smuggling ring or slavery of some kind... LA is a dangerous city with many different trajectories of foul play possibly aimed at Cecilia, her baby and Rene. But in any case its been 16 years so the chance of them being alive is nil at this point. Im certain that, while perhaps not at the time of the show filming, by now those kids would have turned up long ago if they had survived the event... even if it was voluntary on Cecilia's part.

[LAdude1984]

Theres no mention of anything like a big life insurance policy, no suspicious moves clear on the part of Alfredo that would conclusively point to him with the exception of a NEARBY postmarked letter, the ring, etc. I think its a 50/50 chance that Alfredo Newball was involved. But I think its a 98 per cent chance that Cecilia, and her children were kidnapped, and either were killed and dumped in the vast mountains someplace outside los angeles, OR were kidnapped for, as aformentioned by another post... perhaps a baby smuggling ring or slavery of some kind... LA is a dangerous city with many different trajectories of foul play possibly aimed at Cecilia, her baby and Rene. But alas its been 16 years so the chance of them being alive is nil.

[McBevis]

I of course couldn't tell you for sure what happened, however with repeated viewings of this segment, it doesn't seem to me that Alfredo Newball is responsible. I've always thought that there definitely was a mysterious third party somehow involved.

[justins5256]

Originally Posted by McBevis

I of course couldn't tell you for sure what happened, however with repeated viewings of this segment, it doesn't seem to me that Alfredo Newball is responsible. I've always thought that there definitely was a mysterious third party somehow involved.

Ditto.

Probably 98% of the time when I see a segment like this, I think the surviving spouse is to blame. However, I think there is an excellent chance that Alfredo Newball was innocent. Part of my rationale here could be his demeanor in the segment - NEVER a good thing to completely rely on - but Alrfredo struck me as genuinely saddened and grief-stricken by the disappearance of his wife, stepson and newborn. Just a gut feeling on my part.

I have wondered if she was having an affair and left to start a new life with her lover. Still, you would think that some trace would have been found all these years later, but stranger things have happened.

Perhaps she was abducted and killed for her baby, but why would they target Rene as well? Perhaps he just happened to be present when she was lured away from safety and her abductors had to murder him as well. A grisly thought in any event.

[Melanie85]

I keep going back to the woman caller in this case. It just seems so bizarre. Why would she lie and tell Cecilia that she needed to pick out a furniture piece? The first thing I thought of was somebody who desperately wanted a baby and would kill for one. I've heard of stories before where the killer (usually a woman desperately wanting a child) would lure the pregnant woman to her house with the promise of giving her something baby related.

My questions are:

1) Did they determine for certain that the woman caller asking Cecilia to pick out a piece of furniture is the same woman to call her months earlier about Alfredo kissing another woman?

2) The segment mentioned that the investigators traced the call back and determined it was not a co-worker of Alfredo. If they traced the call and determined it was not a co-worker, then did this person ever get investigated?

[egswanso]

Originally Posted by justins5256

Ditto.

Probably 98% of the time when I see a segment like this, I think the surviving spouse is to blame. However, I think there is an excellent chance that Alfredo Newball was innocent. Part of my rationale here could be his demeanor in the segment - NEVER a good thing to completely rely on - but Alrfredo struck me as genuinely saddened and grief-stricken by the disappearance of his wife, stepson and newborn. Just a gut feeling on my part.

I have wondered if she was having an affair and left to start a new life with her lover. Still, you would think that some trace would have been found all these years later, but stranger things have happened.

Perhaps she was abducted and killed for her baby, but why would they target Rene as well? Perhaps he just happened to be present when she was lured away from safety and her abductors had to murder him as well. A grisly thought in any event.

Alfredo's behavior struck me as suspicious.

First, like all these missing wife cases, when the last person to see the wife is also a suspect, it renders his statements suspect, at least. Alfredo claims he saw his wife at 230 and when he called at 5 or so, there was no answer. I suppose the calls from the nursing home to the apartment can be verified, but there's apparently no other witness to Cecilia being home. By itself, this isn't terribly unusual, of course, but it does mean we have only Alfredo's word that she was there.

What made Alfredo nervous about that day? He indicated first that he thought she was out with a friend, yet he claims to have called repeatedly and then went home early - if you just think your wife is out with a friend, that's no reason to panic.

The call to her male best friend was also odd - why would Alfredo think she was there at midnight? Why was he so calm?

It also doesn't make sense to me that everyone (including Alfredo) says they were happy, that things were good, yet he immediately accepts she left him. That's totally inconsistent, which means either things were NOT good and/or Alfredo is lying.

I am also deeply troubled by the fact that Alfredo didn't report his wife missing to the police. He said he thought she just needed time away - but again, this isn't consistent with the idea of someone happy and in love or with his original (claimed) panicky response. The segment indicated that a co-worker reported her missing - this makes me wonder, how long had it been since anyone BESIDES Alfredo had seen her and what due diligence they had done - you'd think they would have called Alfredo first - did he lie or be evasive to them, causing suspicion?

To me, the letter is almost certainly a fake.

The calls from the mystery woman are likely related. I agree with her friend that it's a major coincidence that Cecelia was scheduled to meet this woman the same day she disappeared.

In '94, I'm not sure if LE could have obtained records of calls into a number; so I'm not sure if they could have traced this call - if this is wrong (and it might be), it would be interested to see where it traced to - even to a phone booth might be a lead. It would have been possible to check the letter for fingerprints, but it's also very possible none were found. If the letter still exists and has been properly archived, it might also be possible to check the gum flap and stamp for DNA, although the chances for a clean sample aren't very good, IMO.

In the end, I have to agree with the Detective in this one. I think it is unlikely that Cecilia voluntarily disappeared and I also think Alfredo knows more then he is saying. I'm not saying he personally did it (although I can't eliminate the possibility), but at a minimum, I think he knows WHY Cecelia disappeared and knows, or has a pretty good idea of WHO did it.

I'm almost certain Cecelia and Rene are dead. As for Cecelia's baby, I'll concede that it could have been viable, but I don't think that was the reason for the disappearance. It's far easier to just kidnap an actual baby, IMO, then kidnap a late-stage pregnant woman and either induce labor and/or forcibly remove the baby. You'd need some sort of medical equipment, some sort of medical space, almost certainly more then one person, it just seems overly complicated and far more likely to result in eye or ear witnesses to your actions.

[TracyLynnS]

I can't make up my mind of this one. I always leaned toward the husband being innocent and Cecilia being abducted and murdered for her baby.

Cecilia was 8 1/2 months pregnant. Anyone who's a mom can verify that that's not the time when you are thinking about leaving your hospital, obstetrician, home, loved ones, support, money, and baby stuff behind just so you can run off to another country with a new lover. It's also not the time to run off with your kid to clear your head or get away or get some alone time or whatever. IMO, there would have had to been some very bad things going on at home for her to willingly leave like that and if her home life was that bad, police probably would have discovered it early in their investigation.

If Cecilia planned to go to Honduras with her lover (as was claimed in that typewritten note), she would have been setting it up for months ahead of time. IMO, there would have been evidence of her preparing a new home and contacting new healthcare providers because the baby was due in a matter of days. I've only met one woman who took a long flight late in her pregnancy. I doubt it was connected, but her baby was stillborn several days later. Almost everyone else I've ever heard of or met wouldn't travel that far because of the risk of giving birth on the flight, the uncomfortableness of being hugely pregnant on a long flight, and the risk of having the baby while away from home. Would Cecilia want to travel all the way to Honduras while being about ready to deliver a new baby plus having her 6 year old son along with her and carrying no luggage?

There's a part early in Alfredo's interview where he looks like he's about to cry and the camera cuts away immediately. Kinda makes it hard to read his behavior because of that. It is very weird that so soon after her disappearance, he seems so willing to accept that she was unhappy at home and ran off with Rene and the baby.

The fact that Cecilia was writing out her thank you cards from a baby shower is an indication that she didn't plan to leave. Add in the weird phone calls and the fact that she didn't take anything with her and alarm bells should be going off telling Alfredo that no matter what the notes said, she didn't leave willingly.

The "generic good bye" greeting card that was left behind was signed only with Cecilia's name. Three days later, an identical card (this time with a typewritten note enclosed) was received by Alfredo in the mail. That strikes me as being overly dramatic and unnecessary, sort of along the lines of the 3 page JonBenet ransom note. Something is off about that card. The kidnapper or the husband left it in order to deflect police attention off of them.

In the typewritten note, she says that she met some dude nine months ago, he could be the father of her baby but she's not sure, and she's running off to Honduras to be with him. WHAT? She had some fling with a stranger, who she knows nothing about, and is leaving the country to be with him because he's a rich doctor and Alfredo will "never amount to anything"? Then she signs it with her typewritten full, 3 name, legal name. This is one of the things that I think points to the husband. If it was a baby snatching crazy woman, I don't think she would have bothered to send yet another note to the victim's husband. She'd just take the baby and go.

Cecilia and Rene left everything behind. They didn't even take clothes or toys. Even if she wanted to leave and make it look like an abduction, Rene was young enough that he would have taken at least a favorite toy with him. It would cost a lot of money to start completely over with new stuff for both of them. They'd need everything from maternity clothes to post-baby clothes to socks and underwear to all new clothes and supplies for the baby. Cecilia's wedding rings were left behind, so she couldn't sell them and use the money to buy the necessities. I also didn't think that she and Alfredo had enough income to have money stashed away for her to start a whole new life with.

Cecilia's friend, that guy Anabel, seems to definitely believe that Alfredo killed them, but something about him gives me the creeps. He comes across very strange in his interview.

Six months before Cecilia and Rene disappeared, and when Cecilia was about 2 or 3 months pregnant (at which time she would not be showing and the baby definitely would not be viable), she received a phone call from a woman claiming to have video of Alfredo kissing another woman at a baby shower. Gah! Really? What is this segment's obsession with men attending baby showers? Anyway, Cecilia agreed to view the tape and the woman said she'd call back with info on where to meet for this viewing. She never called back to make those arrangements.

A few months later, and a few weeks before Cecilia and Rene go missing, a woman calls claiming to be a co-worker of Alfredo's. They are going to throw him a surprise baby shower at work and Cecilia needs to come pick out a gift a furniture. The police determined that there was no baby shower and the co-worker had not called. When Cecilia goes to pick out the furniture, that's the day she goes missing. I suppose it could have been that Alfredo had a female accomplice, a girlfriend maybe, and he used this as a set up to lure Cecilia and Rene away from the house so he could kill them, or it could be a woman who wanted the baby so she set up the fake meeting.

[TracyLynnS]

Originally Posted by egswanso

In '94, I'm not sure if LE could have obtained records of calls into a number; so I'm not sure if they could have traced this call - if this is wrong (and it might be), it would be interested to see where it traced to - even to a phone booth might be a lead.

I think it was in the early 90s when caller ID started being available to the general public. At that time, it was a feature that you had to arrange for with your telephone provider and pay an extra monthly fee for, as well as having a phone with a screen to display the details of the incoming calls. I'm guessing that Cecilia and Alfredo did not have the caller ID service nor the right kind of phone so that would have meant cops couldn't have gotten the info from them.

But because of that technology being available, maybe there would have been records available from the phone company at that time. They must have looked into this. Maybe the earlier calls were too old for that info to still be in the telephone company's system?

[Drakken]

I must admit that this case baffles me.

On first glance, I could readily believe the husband and that she left him for some rich bozo and go to Honduras. I've seen - and lived - stranger things that involving pregnant women in my numerous adventures with women. I have had such types of women tell me they wanted to flee their boring relationships and start a new life while pregnant, and so I can believe it's a possibility.

That said, what complicates the matter for me is that if she left, she did it when she was 8 months pregnant. Women have a lot of trouble moving around at such an advanced state, and if she had known in advance that she was pregnant with another man that she loved, she wouldn't have waited 8 months before leaving her husband. She would have eloped within the first months when it would be easier to travel around.

Additionally, women change mentally A LOT when they are nearing giving birth, and their priorities shift. Cecilia's first priority would have been to make sure that her child gets to term, and fleeing immediately to Honduras with a lover certainly would be hazardous to her pregnancy. Even if she gave birth in a US hospital beforehand, she would still need to hide until she gets to term, she would need to hide the fact that she is married and on the run, and she could rise suspicions because it could be considered kidnapping. If she had done that, she would have surfaced somewhere.

Unless the woman is one of the skankiest, cold-hearted, narcissistic woman possible that marries a man with the specific plan in mind to cuckold the hell out of him, most women do not leave their husband on a lam without giving out clues of dissatisfaction. I did not have a read that Cecilia was such a woman, in fact by all accounts she was obsessed by her husband. Could it be overcompensation if she was unfaithful? Possible. Yet, even if she was cheating on him divorce would have been simpler than disappearing and leaving her rings behind. Usually, women disappear like that when they fear for their lives or that they need to start off new lives. Alfredo doesn't seem to be the abusive type, nor someone that would be be a pain in the ass for a divorcing woman, and so I tend not to believe that she ran away with Arturo on her own accord.

Finally, especially because she is pregnant, she would plan her move and she would pack up. She would wait until her husband goes to work and pack as many things as possible before leaving: clothes for her, Rene, and the child, personal effects, medication, etc. But nothing was packed at all, everything was left behind in her home. Even if she indeed had a rich lover, she'd still need to cloth and cloth Rene in the mean time.

So to my sense, while it's a possibility she indeed fled with a man, it's more probable that she was abducted.

[WishfulDreamer]

Originally Posted by TracyLynnS

Cecilia's friend, that guy Anabel, seems to definitely believe that Alfredo killed them, but something about him gives me the creeps. He comes across very strange in his interview.

Bumping this thread up. I also got a strange vibe from this guy. I don't necessarily believe he was involved, but he says that he would "be screaming at the guy I thought was with my wife" and that Alfredo was "unusually calm." I think at this point, being concerned but not panicking would have been normal. Cecilia had only been gone for a few hours at this point, not being there when Alfredo returned from work. It's natural that the husband would call friends and ask about her whereabouts, but just because the guy wasn't ranting and raving doesn't mean that he's guilty. And how "unusually calm" can he have been calling in the middle of the night?

I think the theory about someone trying to lure her is the correct one. And frankly, it's why I find this to be one of the most disturbing missing persons cases.