What seems to have gone wrong from the beginning... - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

OOliver · 03-11-2010, 06:32 PM

I've been watching the show starting from S1 (ep1), since ALN has re-started it earlier this week. Some observations I have made...

The first half of the first episode was brilliant. Cloris Leachman was at her "MTM" best as Phyllis. From her appearance, to her dialogue. The Julie character/storyline was fine - for the second half.

To bring her in as part of the new cast was a huge mistake (with all due respect to Colby; I'm referring to the character itself). It was a one-joke idea...was Lars in love with her as well?...and should have wrapped in the second half of the episode. Offering Phyllis the job, etc - big mistake.

The second mistake was when Phyllis appears in the second ep, she has a new hairstyle - one that looks like an airplane is sitting on her head. She should have stayed with her original style, which gave her a touch of sophistication and glamor. This was lost on the new series - and got worse in the second season when they gave her the real short haircut.

The biggest mistake is the fact that though she was the leading character, she became the butt of everyone's joke. Everyone insults her (or her cooking, her ideas, etc) - Audrey, Jonathan, Julie, etc. and this carries on right through to the last episode of the series in season 2.

Really, no show can survive when everyone in the cast doesn't like the lead character. How can the audience relate to her? Mary was not the butt of all jokes on MTM, Rhoda was not the butt of all jokes on her show, Maude was not, etc. It developed into a character which no one can have much sympathy for at all.

Sure, Phyllis was insulted by some on MTM (Rhoda and Murray), but she also held her own against them - and had a rebuttal. Mary was never cruel to her, so we could see that there was something likeable about Phyllis, and we could like her as well. On her own show, we lost that feeling.

Just my thoughts...

Guy Incognito · 05-11-2011, 06:12 PM

Agreed 100% with all of this.

The main problems with Phyllis can be boiled down to three major issues:

1. The character of Phyllis Lindstrom was "softened" to make her relatable to viewers as the lead, which leads directly into the second issue...

2. The CONSTANT putting-down of Phyllis by the rest of the cast. I mean, if she had been the Phyllis of old, at least she would have sniped back with a few good one-liners of her own. New Phyllis just sat back meekly and took all the abuse, which was no fun to watch after awhile. And more often than not, it was completely unmotivated. At least on TMTMS Phyllis would get snippy and catty with Rhoda first before Rhoda would really let her have it with both barrels. And that actually leads into the third issue...

3. The weak supporting cast. On TMTMS, Cloris had the likes of Betty White and Valerie Harper to play off of, and the chemistry shone through. On Phyllis...well, I'm sure Audrey Rose and Henry Jones were very nice people and they certainly had long, distinguished acting careers. But their characters on the show were boring, bland, unoriginal and one-dimensional at best. Maybe Barbara Colby (RIP) could have provided a much-needed spark, but as noted the actual character wasn't much to write home about and pretty derivative of Lou Grant to boot. Judith Lowry was a fine temporary solution, but pinning all your hopes on an octogenarian is a desperation move and likely to backfire (and it did during Season Two, in a big way). Bess and the whole "precocious kid" routine didn't work once Lisa Gerritsen became a teenager and her somewhat stilted acting technique was put on full, unavoidable display (much like Danielle Spencer from What's Happening) rather than hidden amongst greater talents like on TMTMS. And the less said about the rest, the better.

All that said, the show was harmless enough and a nice way to pass the time. But it could (and should) have been so much more than it was. And Linda Lavin and Charlotte Rae joining the cast as a new circle of friends for Phyllis to interact with would have been a great start to repairing the damage....

gttiene · 05-12-2011, 01:58 AM

Both of the above comments are good points. It's like no thought was put into making the show a lasting success. I forgot about the hairdo

Phyllis didn't even look like the same person when they changed her hairdo in the SECOND episode. She didn't look as pretty to me. Mother Dexter was really the only funny supporting character. I still wish it would have lasted longer. They could have made it better.

scotsguy · 05-12-2011, 06:20 PM

Yes I always think after the pilot,Phyllis is totally different looking to her MTM days and yes way dumbed down.

I really like season1,I like the wacky photo studio setting and Phyllis'

outfits,cute hats and cloaks,to me its really season2,the show runs into

trouble.

A new job setting too many new characters,I always found the office setting

depressing and the Leonard character way,unfunny.

I agree Mother Dexter was great in the show,I'd still love Phyllis to be put on DVD soon,I hope!

03-11-2010, 06:32 PM	#1
OOliver Member Forum Regular Join Date: Jan 28, 2009 Location: Providence RI Posts: 569	What seems to have gone wrong from the beginning... I've been watching the show starting from S1 (ep1), since ALN has re-started it earlier this week. Some observations I have made... The first half of the first episode was brilliant. Cloris Leachman was at her "MTM" best as Phyllis. From her appearance, to her dialogue. The Julie character/storyline was fine - for the second half. To bring her in as part of the new cast was a huge mistake (with all due respect to Colby; I'm referring to the character itself). It was a one-joke idea...was Lars in love with her as well?...and should have wrapped in the second half of the episode. Offering Phyllis the job, etc - big mistake. The second mistake was when Phyllis appears in the second ep, she has a new hairstyle - one that looks like an airplane is sitting on her head. She should have stayed with her original style, which gave her a touch of sophistication and glamor. This was lost on the new series - and got worse in the second season when they gave her the real short haircut. The biggest mistake is the fact that though she was the leading character, she became the butt of everyone's joke. Everyone insults her (or her cooking, her ideas, etc) - Audrey, Jonathan, Julie, etc. and this carries on right through to the last episode of the series in season 2. Really, no show can survive when everyone in the cast doesn't like the lead character. How can the audience relate to her? Mary was not the butt of all jokes on MTM, Rhoda was not the butt of all jokes on her show, Maude was not, etc. It developed into a character which no one can have much sympathy for at all. Sure, Phyllis was insulted by some on MTM (Rhoda and Murray), but she also held her own against them - and had a rebuttal. Mary was never cruel to her, so we could see that there was something likeable about Phyllis, and we could like her as well. On her own show, we lost that feeling. Just my thoughts...

05-11-2011, 06:12 PM	#2
Guy Incognito International Man of Misery Occasional Poster Join Date: Apr 30, 2011 Location: The Solar System Posts: 83	Agreed 100% with all of this. The main problems with Phyllis can be boiled down to three major issues: 1. The character of Phyllis Lindstrom was "softened" to make her relatable to viewers as the lead, which leads directly into the second issue... 2. The CONSTANT putting-down of Phyllis by the rest of the cast. I mean, if she had been the Phyllis of old, at least she would have sniped back with a few good one-liners of her own. New Phyllis just sat back meekly and took all the abuse, which was no fun to watch after awhile. And more often than not, it was completely unmotivated. At least on TMTMS Phyllis would get snippy and catty with Rhoda first before Rhoda would really let her have it with both barrels. And that actually leads into the third issue... 3. The weak supporting cast. On TMTMS, Cloris had the likes of Betty White and Valerie Harper to play off of, and the chemistry shone through. On Phyllis...well, I'm sure Audrey Rose and Henry Jones were very nice people and they certainly had long, distinguished acting careers. But their characters on the show were boring, bland, unoriginal and one-dimensional at best. Maybe Barbara Colby (RIP) could have provided a much-needed spark, but as noted the actual character wasn't much to write home about and pretty derivative of Lou Grant to boot. Judith Lowry was a fine temporary solution, but pinning all your hopes on an octogenarian is a desperation move and likely to backfire (and it did during Season Two, in a big way). Bess and the whole "precocious kid" routine didn't work once Lisa Gerritsen became a teenager and her somewhat stilted acting technique was put on full, unavoidable display (much like Danielle Spencer from What's Happening) rather than hidden amongst greater talents like on TMTMS. And the less said about the rest, the better. All that said, the show was harmless enough and a nice way to pass the time. But it could (and should) have been so much more than it was. And Linda Lavin and Charlotte Rae joining the cast as a new circle of friends for Phyllis to interact with would have been a great start to repairing the damage....
	Last edited by Guy Incognito; 05-11-2011 at 11:57 PM.

05-12-2011, 01:58 AM	#3
gttiene Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Oct 17, 2010 Location: KY Posts: 32	Both of the above comments are good points. It's like no thought was put into making the show a lasting success. I forgot about the hairdo Phyllis didn't even look like the same person when they changed her hairdo in the SECOND episode. She didn't look as pretty to me. Mother Dexter was really the only funny supporting character. I still wish it would have lasted longer. They could have made it better.

05-12-2011, 06:20 PM	#4
scotsguy Member Forum Regular Join Date: Nov 25, 2002 Location: Edinburgh,Scotland Posts: 696	Yes I always think after the pilot,Phyllis is totally different looking to her MTM days and yes way dumbed down. I really like season1,I like the wacky photo studio setting and Phyllis' outfits,cute hats and cloaks,to me its really season2,the show runs into trouble. A new job setting too many new characters,I always found the office setting depressing and the Leonard character way,unfunny. I agree Mother Dexter was great in the show,I'd still love Phyllis to be put on DVD soon,I hope!