By the end of S2, the show was no longer "RHODA"

[OOliver]

I realized something as I've been rewatching "Rhoda" on ALN (as it wraps up S2), and where the show seemed to fall off the tracks...


By the end of S2, the writers spent themajority of the time writing about the others in the cast, and used Rhoda as a supporting character.

We have episodes of Brenda falling for her boss at the bank , Brenda falling for a Federal Agent , Brenda turning down Lenny's marriage proposal , Rhoda's friends (Suzie and Arthur) in an unhappy marriage , Martin's friend Billy visiting, Martin returning to 'singing in nightclubs'...

It started early in S2, and then went totally off-track by the last half of the season.

The show was no longer about the character, but the people around her. Rhoda served the purpose of second banana - "listening" to those around her, and offering her humoros advice. That's it.

Maybe that's why the writers divorced her in S3, and tried to bring the attention back to Rhoda - getting rid of Ida, Martin, and Joe.

[LittleRickyII]

Originally Posted by OOliver

I realized something as I've been rewatching "Rhoda" on ALN (as it wraps up S2), and where the show seemed to fall off the tracks...


By the end of S2, the writers spent themajority of the time writing about the others in the cast, and used Rhoda as a supporting character.

We have episodes of Brenda falling for her boss at the bank , Brenda falling for a Federal Agent , Brenda turning down Lenny's marriage proposal , Rhoda's friends (Suzie and Arthur) in an unhappy marriage , Martin's friend Billy visiting, Martin returning to 'singing in nightclubs'...

It started early in S2, and then went totally off-track by the last half of the season.

The show was no longer about the character, but the people around her. Rhoda served the purpose of second banana - "listening" to those around her, and offering her humoros advice. That's it.

Maybe that's why the writers divorced her in S3, and tried to bring the attention back to Rhoda - getting rid of Ida, Martin, and Joe.

The writers really only got rid of Joe. Ida was gone because Nancy Walker had accepted a starring role in her own series. And I guess Martin was gone because Ida was no longer around. When Nancy Walker's series failed (and there were two of them, Blansky's Beauties and The Nancy Walker Show), the characters of Ida and Martin were immediately brought back to the show.

As for too much focus being placed on other characters, isn't that sort of the MTM way? The Mary Tyler Moore Show routinely had episodes revolving around the supporting characters. What I remember the writers saying at the time was that by marrying off Rhoda, she had lost her edge, which is what made her funny; she was no longer the Rhoda people loved. Whether the storyline revolved around Rhoda or one of her supporting characters, she was kind of dull. So they were trying to reverse the damage.

[Brian Damage]

It's funny, because I always felt that Brenda became "Rhoda" on that show, and Rhoda became "Mary" lol

[scotsguy]

Harold Gould left Rhoda to star with Stephanie Powers in the short lived "Feather and Father " gang.

A lot of the humour on MTM,Rhoda and Phyllis was set around disasterous dates,misunderstandings with new boyfriends,so I can see why a happily married Rhoda was causing trouble with the writers.

I think it was a shame Joe disappeared all together after season3.

[LittleRickyII]

Originally Posted by Brian Damage

It's funny, because I always felt that Brenda became "Rhoda" on that show, and Rhoda became "Mary" lol

I totally agree! Rhoda became the slim and attractive woman she always thought of (and was envious of) Mary for being. And Brenda had the same envy of Rhoda that Rhoda had of Mary, and she was pretty much the same neurotic person that Rhoda had been on The Mary Tyler Moore Show. But then by the end, Brenda was equally fit as well! And there was no source of humor left anymore.

[LittleRickyII]

Originally Posted by scotsguy

Harold Gould left Rhoda to star with Stephanie Powers in the short lived "Feather and Father " gang.

A lot of the humour on MTM,Rhoda and Phyllis was set around disasterous dates,misunderstandings with new boyfriends,so I can see why a happily married Rhoda was causing trouble with the writers.

I think it was a shame Joe disappeared all together after season3.

I agree. I liked the pairing of Rhoda and Joe and don't really blame their marriage for making Rhoda's character unfunny. I think what they should have done was bring in some perfect couple to be friends with Rhoda and Joa, that would make Rhoda feel inferior again, like she always did when she compared life to Mary's. I'm imagining the type of perfect couple you would expect if Mary Richards had gotten married. Then you would have had a similar dynamic to what made her character fun on The Mary Tyler Moore Show.

Another idea, given that the third season (1976-77) was when the show started seeing it's ratings plummet (it dropped to 32nd place that season), and was also the season that Phyllis got cancelled, what if they brought those two characters back together the next season ('77-'78)for Rhoda and Phyllis? I'm not sure what the premise would be and how to make it plausible, given that Rhoda and Phyllis didn't care much for one another. Perhaps something like Rhoda being in a bind and needing help at her dress shop while, at the same time Phyllis (with her daughter married and having lost another job, and say Judge Dexter has retired and sold his house) needs some place to live and work, so Mary begs Rhoda to help Phyllis out by hiring her. So Rhoda does, but only as a favor to Mary. It would have been great having those two characters back again, forced to deal with one another.

[scotsguy]

The unfunny custome hire store dragged the show down,like the office setting of Phyllis in season2 did.

I think Myrna should have came back in season3,she was Phyllis like in that,she thought the whole world revolved around her.
The Lou Grant style boss for Rhoda was a bad idea,it was almost the writers saying she can't have a successful marriage so she can't have a career of her own either,I did like the Gary Levy character he was funny,I really didn't like that Benny character.
I don't mind season3,its 4 and 5 I struggle with,would still buy them all on DVD,the problem is with the scripts not the Actors on later Rhoda.

[OOliver]

"As for too much focus being placed on other characters, isn't that sort of the MTM way? The Mary Tyler Moore Show routinely had episodes revolving around the supporting characters."

True, but this would happen maybe three or four eps out of 20+ for the season. Mary never resorted to 'second banana' on her own show while the others took over the way it happened in S2 with 'Rhoda'. It really became more of an ensemble piece (ala "Friends" int he 1990s) than a star-vehicle for 'Rhoda Morgenstern'...with the others running Rhoda off her own show.

The show could have been the same without Rhoda on it - just the storylines revolving around the other characters. Rhoda was just the link that put them all together.

[LittleRickyII]

Originally Posted by OOliver

"As for too much focus being placed on other characters, isn't that sort of the MTM way? The Mary Tyler Moore Show routinely had episodes revolving around the supporting characters."

True, but this would happen maybe three or four eps out of 20+ for the season. Mary never resorted to 'second banana' on her own show while the others took over the way it happened in S2 with 'Rhoda'. It really became more of an ensemble piece (ala "Friends" int he 1990s) than a star-vehicle for 'Rhoda Morgenstern'...with the others running Rhoda off her own show.

The show could have been the same without Rhoda on it - just the storylines revolving around the other characters. Rhoda was just the link that put them all together.

You may be correct, but it just seems to me there were a whole lot of MTM episodes that didn't focus on Mary. Then again, the writers were having difficulty writing for a married Rhoda, which could be the reason they were often focusing on supporting characters.