Re-examining the Jule Caylor case - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

wiseguy182 · 02-23-2010, 03:48 AM

it used to be that the overall forum consensus was that Jule was pretty guilty, but the tide seems to be turning pretty heavily toward the idea that Jule could potentially be innocent. And on that note, I thought it was important to re-examine this case to come up with things, some of which haven't been discussed here before, that may indicate that Jule might be innocent.

1. One issue that has always nagged was the apparent lack of motive. Jule had a new job in a new state and a new woman, so there doesn't seem to be any obvious motive. The best that I could come up with was that Jule wanted Dottie to not be able to get along without him, and didn't like that Dottie was going to be financially well off and meeting new people, new friends. That's the best I could come up with and I'm not really comfortable with it.

2. Jule says "it was hell having her disappear the way she did." This can be taken a couple different ways. It could mean that Jule didn't like having her disappear and being forced to answer alot of police questions and being put under a microscope, but it could also mean that Jule did have a little concern left for her well-being.

3. Granted, Jule says it was hell living with her and things have been pretty good without her. But it should be noted that he never wishes harm on her. He really seems to be indifferent to the whole situation.

4. the segment is pretty vague. I would like to know if:
a. it can be confirmed that Dottie bought a bus ticket
b. anyone remembers seeing her on the train, whether it be boarding, exiting, or being a passenger on the train.
c. was it ever confirmed that Dottie did have plans to visit the friend?

If any one of those can be confirmed, then i think that swings heavily away from Jule being responsible. However, Dottie was very shy and probably wouldn't have conversed with anyone on the train, so if she was in fact on there, it is very possible nobody can recall seeing her on there.

5. segment says she took an overnight bag, and I can't recall, but perhaps a piece of luggage. I'm curious to know if that was missing from the house, and if any items that could have been put in those bags were. If they were, it could indicate that Dottie did in fact plan on visiting a friend, and again, would seem to indicate Jule's innocence.

that's what I have, any additional thoughts?

burbqueen · 02-23-2010, 12:41 PM

OMG Jule was hilarious. I watched this the other day and everyone in the room thought he was guilty. I think Jule wanted toa move and without his wife and didnt want to be bothered. The odds that she is alive are slim to none. Especially when her car showed up parked next to his at his job!!!

kadrmas15 · 02-23-2010, 12:48 PM

The car was not parked next to his job. It was parked next to his car at the BART station.

egswanso · 02-23-2010, 02:15 PM

The segment certainly presents evidence of why Dottie would want to leave Jule and facts that suggest she could have done so, although this theory is weakened, somewhat, by her lack of communication with family or friends.

Jule's candor re: the relationship is unusual for UM. He didn't portray himself as the grieving spouse at all. It's hard to know if this is a sign of his innocence or just arrogance. If he did do it, I suspect he accidentally killed her in an argument, so there wouldn't be motive in the classic sense.

I agree with you, wiseguy, that a key point is any corroboration that Dottie boarded the BART train. If she did, I am inclined to believe Jule is innocent; however, there does not appear any corroboration. An overnight bag is, IMO, immaterial. Jule could have just as easily packed one himself and disposed of it with Dottie's body.

The whole problem with this case is the lack of any third-party evidence. We don't know when Dottie was last seen alive, we don't know Jule's confirmed locations, we have no witnesses that Jule dropped Dottie off or how Dottie's car got to the BART station.

kadrmas15 · 02-23-2010, 02:28 PM

Well, looking at it, I will say there is insufficient legally to convict or even charge Jule Caylor with murder. Yes there is enough to generate suspicion towards Jule Caylor but that is about all. It is hard to charge him with a murder when there is physical evidence that a murder even occurred. I also think that if Jule did kill Dottie that it was not pre-meditated.

I mean, to me, he seemed kind of indifferent to her one way or the other, while he did not seem sorry that she was gone, I cannot imagine him getting wrapped around her enough to want to off her. In fact, he seemed like he was rather pleased with the idea of a divorce and while it was very obvious he did not miss her, it was also obvious that he really did not hate her, just that he was not in love with her and did not want to be with her anymore.

There are some disturbing questions here though. First off, while Jule 'found' her car next to his at the BART station, I believe he never notified the Concord Police that he suspected his wife was missing. In fact, it was not until at least 5 days after Dottie was last seen before her disappearance was reported to the Concord Police. It was also not reported to the Concord Police by Jule but by the BART Police. Now, I believe Jule was the one that reported that his wife had disappeared but he reported it to the BART Police about her car being next to his car. Now this was over the course of I believe three days that the stuff with the note and the cars happened. Then Jule reported this to the BART Police and I am guessing told them or they told him to file a missing person report with the Concord Police Department. However I imagine they expected to hear back from Concord and when they did not, finally notified them, 5 days after Jule had made the report to them. So it sounds like it was 7 or 8 days after Dottie disappeared before it was finally reported to the Concord Police.

Clockworkhigh · 02-23-2010, 05:05 PM

Just saw the segment again and the whole thing frustrates me. I am leaning on the side of Jule being innocent. But for the life of me I cannot explain why. He might just flat out always have that demeanour of being cool, calm and collected. That could just be another day at the office for him.

The thing is why would Jule kill Dottie if he is moving to a new city, new job anyways? She apparently didn't want to follow him and if you wanted to get rid of someone that's the way to do it, move away from them. All the pieces were in place for a divorce. Why complicate things?

Also that separate bank account that Dottie had is suspicious. I wonder if the money was ever taken out of that account. There are a lot of signs that point to her starting a new life. Maybe she wasn't close to her family, all we saw was her sister. If she had a bad marriage that eliminates caring about seeing her husband again. She had no kids, and other than that support group no friends seemingly.

Why would Jule kill her? I have never heard a good reason

egswanso · 02-23-2010, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clockworkhigh

Just saw the segment again and the whole thing frustrates me. I am leaning on the side of Jule being innocent. But for the life of me I cannot explain why. He might just flat out always have that demeanour of being cool, calm and collected. That could just be another day at the office for him.

The thing is why would Jule kill Dottie if he is moving to a new city, new job anyways? She apparently didn't want to follow him and if you wanted to get rid of someone that's the way to do it, move away from them. All the pieces were in place for a divorce. Why complicate things?

Also that separate bank account that Dottie had is suspicious. I wonder if the money was ever taken out of that account. There are a lot of signs that point to her starting a new life. Maybe she wasn't close to her family, all we saw was her sister. If she had a bad marriage that eliminates caring about seeing her husband again. She had no kids, and other than that support group no friends seemingly.

Why would Jule kill her? I have never heard a good reason

If Jule killed her, I would theorize that Jule and Dottie got into an argument (as they were wont to do), it escalated into physical violence, and she was killed by accident. He describes the prior incident where she was threating him with scissors or something and he hit her with the typing stand, so it's not inconceivable that he hit her again; she could have fallen and hit her head, etc., etc. I doubt he ever planned to kill her, but anytime you have two people fighting, things can get out of hand.

If he did kill her, I'd have to think he's a total sociopath, as he seemed to lack any guilt or emotion about her disappearance.

And kadrmas, I have to agree and take it further, there's not even a scintilla of evidence to charge Jule, let alone convict. If he did kill her, he basically committed the perfect crime.

peachysquirt21 · 02-23-2010, 07:45 PM

I think what happened is they got into an argument & things went too far & she died.

His story just does not make sense IMO. If she decided to just up & leave or go somewhere overnight, few days, I am pretty sure she would have taken her purse. According to the group of people she associated with, she felt safe as along as she had her purse. Even if she did go off somewhere & met with fowl play, what are the odds that her purse would be found in her car of all places??? When according to Jule he drove her to the station & dropped her off. If that is the case, you have to ask yourself how did her car end up at that station? I believe she also had amount of money that she left behind. If she was gonna go off & just disappear, I am sure she would have taken that money with her. Given her condition, I do not think she was ready to just go off & start a new life or even go for a few days to visit someone. She was just starting to feel comfortable going to certain places. It appeared to me she was quite close to this group she was associating with & I am sure that if she was gonna go visit someone or start a new life for herself, she would have told at least 1 person from that group.

Sad thing is, I don't think we will ever find out where Dottie is.

wiseguy182 · 02-24-2010, 01:17 AM

also:

6. when you think about it, the theory of Dottie starting a new life isn't all that far-fetched. By accounts, she was meeting new friends and new men. It is entirely possible that she met a man who was considerably wealthy and went off to be with him. That would explain why all of her belongings and the money were left behind. Perhaps those were trivial to her now. Plus, someone could recognize her if she wore the same clothes.

7. Dottie's weight tended to fluctuate, but she is depicted in the segment as being of a considerable weight. Which raises the possibility of would Jule need assistance in moving the body? If Jule is guilty, does anyone else know about this?

wiseguy182 · 02-25-2010, 02:03 AM

8. Dottie disappeared on one of Jule's last days in San Fran. Now, when people are getting ready to move, they are generally very busy. They have to pack, close accounts in the area, do any unfinished business in the area, etc. Would Jule really have the time necessary it would take to dispose of Dottie's body (to the point that, 25 years later, it still hasn't been found), clean up any potential blood, mess, and hide any potential murder weapon, and do all of these things in his final hours in San Fran? Would he really have the time do this? If not, again the possibility of him having an accomplice surfaces because if he did it, he might need somebody to assist him so that he leaves San Fran according to schedule.

wiseguy182 · 02-25-2010, 09:03 AM

9. it should be noted that Dottie was doing alot of things secretly around the time of her disapperance: opening secret accounts, living a secret existence. I think it's very possible she could have staged a secret disappearance.

burbqueen · 02-25-2010, 03:55 PM

People talk about motive, but my god I've read about cases of people killing their spouse over all kinds of things. I think Jule just was tired or dottie or maybe they got in a fight. her purse was in her car right? odd. The reason for killing anyone is just a human mind attempting to understan

I just for the life of me cant see dottie just moving and not contacting her friends all these years. It does happen, but not as often as someone killing their wife.

starmushrooms · 02-25-2010, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clockworkhigh

Just saw the segment again and the whole thing frustrates me. I am leaning on the side of Jule being innocent. But for the life of me I cannot explain why. He might just flat out always have that demeanour of being cool, calm and collected. That could just be another day at the office for him.

I just watched the segment tonight and while Jule didn't come off as sympathetic or grief stricken he might be a straight forward guy who doesn't show emotion.

I'm on the fence with Jule. The UM segment didn't paint him in a good light. I had my doubts originally, but now I think, who knows.

One thing that bugs me, and always bugs me when I watch TV, is listening to people who talk scripted, like a robot. The friend filmed in the park had a scripted tone to her voice.

wiseguy182 · 02-26-2010, 01:59 AM

10. Jule stated in the segment that he wasn't surprised when he was considered a suspect, because naturally when someone disappears, people around them are considered. Now the question I have is why would Jule, who is about to leave for another state and be rid of Dottie, kill her in his final days in California? He is so close to being rid of her. If he put up with her for 12 years, couldn't he have withstood a few more days?

Admittedly, my own opinion is shifting towards uncertain on this case.

peachysquirt21 · 02-26-2010, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiseguy182

10. Jule stated in the segment that he wasn't surprised when he was considered a suspect, because naturally when someone disappears, people around them are considered. Now the question I have is why would Jule, who is about to leave for another state and be rid of Dottie, kill her in his final days in California? He is so close to being rid of her. If he put up with her for 12 years, couldn't he have withstood a few more days?

Admittedly, my own opinion is shifting towards uncertain on this case.

That is a good point. I still think that they got into some kind of argument & things went too far.

02-23-2010, 03:48 AM	#1
wiseguy182 Member Forum Veteran Join Date: Apr 11, 2006 Location: Wendy's salad bar Posts: 7,030	Re-examining the Jule Caylor case it used to be that the overall forum consensus was that Jule was pretty guilty, but the tide seems to be turning pretty heavily toward the idea that Jule could potentially be innocent. And on that note, I thought it was important to re-examine this case to come up with things, some of which haven't been discussed here before, that may indicate that Jule might be innocent. 1. One issue that has always nagged was the apparent lack of motive. Jule had a new job in a new state and a new woman, so there doesn't seem to be any obvious motive. The best that I could come up with was that Jule wanted Dottie to not be able to get along without him, and didn't like that Dottie was going to be financially well off and meeting new people, new friends. That's the best I could come up with and I'm not really comfortable with it. 2. Jule says "it was hell having her disappear the way she did." This can be taken a couple different ways. It could mean that Jule didn't like having her disappear and being forced to answer alot of police questions and being put under a microscope, but it could also mean that Jule did have a little concern left for her well-being. 3. Granted, Jule says it was hell living with her and things have been pretty good without her. But it should be noted that he never wishes harm on her. He really seems to be indifferent to the whole situation. 4. the segment is pretty vague. I would like to know if: a. it can be confirmed that Dottie bought a bus ticket b. anyone remembers seeing her on the train, whether it be boarding, exiting, or being a passenger on the train. c. was it ever confirmed that Dottie did have plans to visit the friend? If any one of those can be confirmed, then i think that swings heavily away from Jule being responsible. However, Dottie was very shy and probably wouldn't have conversed with anyone on the train, so if she was in fact on there, it is very possible nobody can recall seeing her on there. 5. segment says she took an overnight bag, and I can't recall, but perhaps a piece of luggage. I'm curious to know if that was missing from the house, and if any items that could have been put in those bags were. If they were, it could indicate that Dottie did in fact plan on visiting a friend, and again, would seem to indicate Jule's innocence. that's what I have, any additional thoughts?

02-23-2010, 12:41 PM	#2
burbqueen Master of My Domain Frequent Poster Join Date: Dec 11, 2009 Location: texas Posts: 160	OMG Jule was hilarious. I watched this the other day and everyone in the room thought he was guilty. I think Jule wanted toa move and without his wife and didnt want to be bothered. The odds that she is alive are slim to none. Especially when her car showed up parked next to his at his job!!!
	__________________ Baby Huba due 06/20/10!!!!

02-23-2010, 12:48 PM	#3
kadrmas15 Retired from Board 03/03/11 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 11, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,910	The car was not parked next to his job. It was parked next to his car at the BART station.

02-23-2010, 02:15 PM	#4
egswanso Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Jan 06, 2009 Location: NYC Posts: 463	The segment certainly presents evidence of why Dottie would want to leave Jule and facts that suggest she could have done so, although this theory is weakened, somewhat, by her lack of communication with family or friends. Jule's candor re: the relationship is unusual for UM. He didn't portray himself as the grieving spouse at all. It's hard to know if this is a sign of his innocence or just arrogance. If he did do it, I suspect he accidentally killed her in an argument, so there wouldn't be motive in the classic sense. I agree with you, wiseguy, that a key point is any corroboration that Dottie boarded the BART train. If she did, I am inclined to believe Jule is innocent; however, there does not appear any corroboration. An overnight bag is, IMO, immaterial. Jule could have just as easily packed one himself and disposed of it with Dottie's body. The whole problem with this case is the lack of any third-party evidence. We don't know when Dottie was last seen alive, we don't know Jule's confirmed locations, we have no witnesses that Jule dropped Dottie off or how Dottie's car got to the BART station.

02-23-2010, 02:28 PM	#5
kadrmas15 Retired from Board 03/03/11 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 11, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,910	Well, looking at it, I will say there is insufficient legally to convict or even charge Jule Caylor with murder. Yes there is enough to generate suspicion towards Jule Caylor but that is about all. It is hard to charge him with a murder when there is physical evidence that a murder even occurred. I also think that if Jule did kill Dottie that it was not pre-meditated. I mean, to me, he seemed kind of indifferent to her one way or the other, while he did not seem sorry that she was gone, I cannot imagine him getting wrapped around her enough to want to off her. In fact, he seemed like he was rather pleased with the idea of a divorce and while it was very obvious he did not miss her, it was also obvious that he really did not hate her, just that he was not in love with her and did not want to be with her anymore. There are some disturbing questions here though. First off, while Jule 'found' her car next to his at the BART station, I believe he never notified the Concord Police that he suspected his wife was missing. In fact, it was not until at least 5 days after Dottie was last seen before her disappearance was reported to the Concord Police. It was also not reported to the Concord Police by Jule but by the BART Police. Now, I believe Jule was the one that reported that his wife had disappeared but he reported it to the BART Police about her car being next to his car. Now this was over the course of I believe three days that the stuff with the note and the cars happened. Then Jule reported this to the BART Police and I am guessing told them or they told him to file a missing person report with the Concord Police Department. However I imagine they expected to hear back from Concord and when they did not, finally notified them, 5 days after Jule had made the report to them. So it sounds like it was 7 or 8 days after Dottie disappeared before it was finally reported to the Concord Police.

02-23-2010, 05:05 PM	#6
Clockworkhigh Member Forum Regular Join Date: Apr 29, 2009 Posts: 604	Just saw the segment again and the whole thing frustrates me. I am leaning on the side of Jule being innocent. But for the life of me I cannot explain why. He might just flat out always have that demeanour of being cool, calm and collected. That could just be another day at the office for him. The thing is why would Jule kill Dottie if he is moving to a new city, new job anyways? She apparently didn't want to follow him and if you wanted to get rid of someone that's the way to do it, move away from them. All the pieces were in place for a divorce. Why complicate things? Also that separate bank account that Dottie had is suspicious. I wonder if the money was ever taken out of that account. There are a lot of signs that point to her starting a new life. Maybe she wasn't close to her family, all we saw was her sister. If she had a bad marriage that eliminates caring about seeing her husband again. She had no kids, and other than that support group no friends seemingly. Why would Jule kill her? I have never heard a good reason

02-23-2010, 07:45 PM	#8
peachysquirt21 Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Jan 27, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 462	I think what happened is they got into an argument & things went too far & she died. His story just does not make sense IMO. If she decided to just up & leave or go somewhere overnight, few days, I am pretty sure she would have taken her purse. According to the group of people she associated with, she felt safe as along as she had her purse. Even if she did go off somewhere & met with fowl play, what are the odds that her purse would be found in her car of all places??? When according to Jule he drove her to the station & dropped her off. If that is the case, you have to ask yourself how did her car end up at that station? I believe she also had amount of money that she left behind. If she was gonna go off & just disappear, I am sure she would have taken that money with her. Given her condition, I do not think she was ready to just go off & start a new life or even go for a few days to visit someone. She was just starting to feel comfortable going to certain places. It appeared to me she was quite close to this group she was associating with & I am sure that if she was gonna go visit someone or start a new life for herself, she would have told at least 1 person from that group. Sad thing is, I don't think we will ever find out where Dottie is.

02-24-2010, 01:17 AM	#9
wiseguy182 Member Forum Veteran Join Date: Apr 11, 2006 Location: Wendy's salad bar Posts: 7,030	also: 6. when you think about it, the theory of Dottie starting a new life isn't all that far-fetched. By accounts, she was meeting new friends and new men. It is entirely possible that she met a man who was considerably wealthy and went off to be with him. That would explain why all of her belongings and the money were left behind. Perhaps those were trivial to her now. Plus, someone could recognize her if she wore the same clothes. 7. Dottie's weight tended to fluctuate, but she is depicted in the segment as being of a considerable weight. Which raises the possibility of would Jule need assistance in moving the body? If Jule is guilty, does anyone else know about this?

02-25-2010, 02:03 AM	#10
wiseguy182 Member Forum Veteran Join Date: Apr 11, 2006 Location: Wendy's salad bar Posts: 7,030	8. Dottie disappeared on one of Jule's last days in San Fran. Now, when people are getting ready to move, they are generally very busy. They have to pack, close accounts in the area, do any unfinished business in the area, etc. Would Jule really have the time necessary it would take to dispose of Dottie's body (to the point that, 25 years later, it still hasn't been found), clean up any potential blood, mess, and hide any potential murder weapon, and do all of these things in his final hours in San Fran? Would he really have the time do this? If not, again the possibility of him having an accomplice surfaces because if he did it, he might need somebody to assist him so that he leaves San Fran according to schedule.

02-25-2010, 09:03 AM	#11
wiseguy182 Member Forum Veteran Join Date: Apr 11, 2006 Location: Wendy's salad bar Posts: 7,030	9. it should be noted that Dottie was doing alot of things secretly around the time of her disapperance: opening secret accounts, living a secret existence. I think it's very possible she could have staged a secret disappearance.

02-25-2010, 03:55 PM	#12
burbqueen Master of My Domain Frequent Poster Join Date: Dec 11, 2009 Location: texas Posts: 160	People talk about motive, but my god I've read about cases of people killing their spouse over all kinds of things. I think Jule just was tired or dottie or maybe they got in a fight. her purse was in her car right? odd. The reason for killing anyone is just a human mind attempting to understan I just for the life of me cant see dottie just moving and not contacting her friends all these years. It does happen, but not as often as someone killing their wife.

02-26-2010, 01:59 AM	#14
wiseguy182 Member Forum Veteran Join Date: Apr 11, 2006 Location: Wendy's salad bar Posts: 7,030	10. Jule stated in the segment that he wasn't surprised when he was considered a suspect, because naturally when someone disappears, people around them are considered. Now the question I have is why would Jule, who is about to leave for another state and be rid of Dottie, kill her in his final days in California? He is so close to being rid of her. If he put up with her for 12 years, couldn't he have withstood a few more days? Admittedly, my own opinion is shifting towards uncertain on this case.