Nice Dress - Not!

[Madame X]

I know they tried to make Ethel look older and dowdier than Lucy, but having to wear something like this makes me feel sorry for Vivian. I'd rather see her in the house dresses she wore in New York!

[Marvo301]

That is an unflattering dress. But like you said it was a deliberate attempt to make Viv look older than Lucy. I give Viv credit for being an incredibly good sport about it though. Not only was she one of the best supporting actresses on TV but she even managed to forge a great friendship with Lucy in the process.

[TV Knowledge Fan]

...to be at least twenty pounds overweight, and wear "frumpier" dresses so that Lucy would delibrately appear more attractive than "Ethel" whenever they appeared in the same scene. When the hour-long "specials" began in the fall of 1957 {"THE LUCILLE BALL-DESI ARNAZ SHOW", aka "THE LUCY-DESI COMEDY HOUR"}, Viv finally negotiated the right not to look "dumpy" anymore, appearing almost as attractive as Lucy did.

[LittleRickyII]

Originally Posted by TV Knowledge Fan

...to be at least twenty pounds overweight, and wear "frumpier" dresses so that Lucy would delibrately appear more attractive than "Ethel" whenever they appeared in the same scene. When the hour-long "specials" began in the fall of 1957 {"THE LUCILLE BALL-DESI ARNAZ SHOW", aka "THE LUCY-DESI COMEDY HOUR"}, Viv finally negotiated the right not to look "dumpy" anymore, appearing almost as attractive as Lucy did.

As much as Vivian hated the frumpy clothes, the fact is she asked for it. The first time Lucy laid eyes on her, she didnt' think she fit the bill because she was attractive looking. Vivian tried to prove to Lucy she could look frumpy and showed up a day or two later in a bathrobe. At the beginning, she apparently really wanted that part, even though it meant playing older than her own age and wearing unflattering clothes.

But as for Vivian's contract stipulating that she had to be 20 pounds overweight, that is an old urban legend. As documented in the biography of Vivian Vance, the only contract that said any such thing was one that Lucille Ball created as a gag and presented to her at a surprise birthday party. Besides the weight thing, it was full of other ridiculous clauses such as, if her hair looked better than Lucy's, she'd have to give Lucy her hairdresser. Years later, Vivian Vance showed up as a surprise guest on Dinah! where Lucy was appearing. Vivian came with that gag contract and read it on the air, much to Lucy's amusement. (I've personally seen that Dinah! episode!) But somewhere along the way, for reasons unknown, Lucy's joke got twisted into reality. But it's simply untrue that there was ever any such clause in Vivian's actual contract. One thing that is true, Vivian tended to drop pounds over the summer hiatus from I Love Lucy, and she would show up slimmer when the new season would begin. Lucy would tease her that she didn't look like Ethel and needed to put on the pounds. Perhaps it was the stress of work -- who knows? -- but usually she did tend to gain weight as the season progressed. But not because she was required to.

[TV Knowledge Fan]

Well, that shows me not to trust "second-hand information", 'Ricky'.

One of the most famous stories, of which the basic incident was true, is the often-repeated story that Gracie Allen discovered husband George Burns was cheating on her; he gave her a mink stole to keep the incident from going any further. Later, she told a friend, "You know, I wish George would cheat on me again. I could use a silver fox stole". That story was retold SO MANY TIMES, the mink stole became a "candlestick", a "silver tea service", et. al, with the same "punchline" {"I could use another..."}.

[Marvo301]

Originally Posted by TV Knowledge Fan

Well, that shows me not to trust "second-hand information", 'Ricky'.

One of the most famous stories, of which the basic incident was true, is the often-repeated story that Gracie Allen discovered husband George Burns was cheating on her; he gave her a mink stole to keep the incident from going any further. Later, she told a friend, "You know, I wish George would cheat on me again. I could use a silver fox stole". That story was retold SO MANY TIMES, the mink stole became a "candlestick", a "silver tea service", et. al, with the same "punchline" {"I could use another..."}.

George Burns himself tells this story in his book "Gracie, A Love Story". In his version the gift is a siver centerpiece.

[Hughsgirl]

I didn't like that particular dress on Viv either. Despite her having to stay at least 20lbs. heavier then Lucy, I feel Viv was beautiful. This is where society really causes trouble with women in particular and eating disorders. Just because a woman has some meat on her bones doesn't mean she can't be as beautiful and glamorous as a model. Beauty is STILL in the eye of the beholder! Even when Viv was at her frumpiest, she was still gorgeous!

[LittleRickyII]

Originally Posted by TV Knowledge Fan

Well, that shows me not to trust "second-hand information", 'Ricky'.

The problem is that story has gotten printed, reprinted, and ultimately wound up everywhere. It's kind of like a wildfire. I guess that's what gossip does. A similar thing happened with Vivian's age. I don't know if Bart Andrews was the original source, but in his book he wrote that Vivian Vance was born in 1913 and was two years younger than Lucille Ball. Then it seems that every book that followed said the same thing and it became accepted as fact that she was younger than Lucy. Back in the mid '90s, some smart member of an Internet chat group I was in got the bright idea to investigate 1920 census records and found out Vivian Vance was 10 years old when that census was done in January 1920. Because of a remote possibility there might have been an error in her age in the 1920 census, I followed up and went to the National Archives and looked at the 1910 census. I knew that if she had been born in 1913, it would have been impossible for her name to have appeared in the 1910 census. But there it was! It was conducted in April 1910 and she was listed as eight months old, meaning she had been born in 1909. Mystery solved, conventional wisdom about her age WRONG! A year or two later, the Vivian Vance autobiography came out which, for the first time in print, listed her birth year as 1909.

Originally Posted by TV Knowledge Fan

One of the most famous stories, of which the basic incident was true, is the often-repeated story that Gracie Allen discovered husband George Burns was cheating on her; he gave her a mink stole to keep the incident from going any further. Later, she told a friend, "You know, I wish George would cheat on me again. I could use a silver fox stole". That story was retold SO MANY TIMES, the mink stole became a "candlestick", a "silver tea service", et. al, with the same "punchline" {"I could use another..."}.

I've heard at least one of those variations of that Burns and Allen story. So any idea what George really did give her? I take it Gracie's response in that story is NOT true?

[LittleRickyII]

Originally Posted by Hughsgirl

Despite her having to stay at least 20lbs. heavier then Lucy,

Grrrrh! As we just discussed above Vivian Vance did not have to stay 20 lbs heavier than Lucy! Geesh, is it just impossible to kill these urban legends?

[Marvo301]

Originally Posted by LittleRickyII

The problem is that story has gotten printed, reprinted, and ultimately wound up everywhere. It's kind of like a wildfire. I guess that's what gossip does. A similar thing happened with Vivian's age. I don't know if Bart Andrews was the original source, but in his book he wrote that Vivian Vance was born in 1913 and was two years younger than Lucille Ball. Then it seems that every book that followed said the same thing and it became accepted as fact that she was younger than Lucy. Back in the mid '90s, some smart member of an Internet chat group I was in got the bright idea to investigate 1920 census records and found out Vivian Vance was 10 years old when that census was done in January 1920. Because of a remote possibility there might have been an error in her age in the 1920 census, I followed up and went to the National Archives and looked at the 1910 census. I knew that if she had been born in 1913, it would have been impossible for her name to have appeared in the 1910 census. But there it was! It was conducted in April 1910 and she was listed as eight months old, meaning she had been born in 1909. Mystery solved, conventional wisdom about her age WRONG! A year or two later, the Vivian Vance autobiography came out which, for the first time in print, listed her birth year as 1909.



I've heard at least one of those variations of that Burns and Allen story. So any idea what George really did give her? I take it Gracie's response in that story is NOT true?

According to George Burns himself in the book "Gracie, a Love Story" the gift was a silver centerpiece.

[Hughsgirl]

Originally Posted by LittleRickyII

Grrrrh! As we just discussed above Vivian Vance did not have to stay 20 lbs heavier than Lucy! Geesh, is it just impossible to kill these urban legends?

Excuse me! I won't make a mistake again! I just don't have the time to read every single post!!