Rae Ann Mossor - Bizarre Case - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

DarkDante · 02-20-2010, 02:06 AM

This case has always bothered me. As a rule when watching UM I try to surmise the most logical outcome of a case and go from there. With this case it's pretty simple. Mosser arrived at the home of her ex-boyfriend and after failing to get him to reconcile with her, threatened to kill herself. She then went out to her boyfriend's car, grabbed a shotgun and made good on her threat.

What makes me personally believe this is a suicide is that the probability of a stranger coming along and shooting Mosser within the few minutes between her conversation with her boyfriend and the act of shooting herself is extremely unlikely. That leads me to believe that either Rae Ann Mosser killed herself or someone who was in her company in the moments before she died killed her.

What makes this case so bizarre is that Rae Ann's parents make a very credible case that Mosser did not commit suicide despite the overwhelming logical explanation that she did. They took measurements of the gun and got several experts to perform tests which showed that due to the way Rae Ann was positioned when she allegedly shot herself that she would've been unable to pull the trigger of the shotgun by herself and inflict the type of wound she received.

Eventually Rae Ann's cause of death was changed from suicide to undetermined. Although I am of the belief that Mosser committed suicide, I think there are several questions that are still left open with this case. Thoughts?

kadrmas15 · 02-20-2010, 02:48 AM

Hmm, I personally lean against suicide in this instance. I am no firearms expert, but I would think if the trajectory of the shotgun slug were to be determined it would be more obvious. But this is a situation to where, well, first off, whose shot gun was it? I had the impression that it was the Mossor's shot gun. However that fact was not revealed for sure in the segment. However, while not impossible, it is hard for someone to kill themselves with a shotgun, the gun was too long for her to have pulled the trigger with her fingers, which means that she could have fired it with her toe. However one problem there. She was laying in a position right next to the car, parallel to her boyfriend's car. Yet the gun was resting perfectly on the top of the trunk? I mean, had she shot herself, the gun would have fallen to the ground and not landed on the top of the trunk. The way the gun was placed there, it looked like someone had set the gun there. It was the way someone would lay down a gun, not the way that a gun would fall if someone killed themselves and the gun just dropped.

Now, is there enough here to charge the boyfriend or anyone with homicide? No. It is kind of a frustrating case, but I feel undetermined is the right ruling. There is not enough to show there is a suicide and not enough to show it is a homicide either, however there are some disturbing questions here. Such as, it is pretty obvious if the gun had fallen to the ground, someone moved it before the police got there and put it on the trunk. The question is, who was it and why would they move it?

Also something else that never really added up to me. Now it is easy to second guess after the fact and play Monday morning quarterback, however, the boyfriend's story about 'what do I have to do to prove my love to you, kill myself?' I don't know, that just does not fly to me. I mean I get people do irrational, stupid stuff, but okay, let's just say for the sake of argument that she really did say that and that these three witnesses who allegedly overheard this, lets say all of them are telling the truth, even so, it seems mighty interesting how someone that was allegedly so hell bent on offing herself, I mean, why did no one try to stop her from doing this? I also find it strange that while all these people allegedly overheard this, none of them saw her shoot herself.

wiseguy182 · 02-20-2010, 04:19 AM

the lack of an apparent motive, suspect and the deceased's statement regarding killing herself all point to suicide.

Initially, the issue of could she have killed herself given the trajectory, placement of the gun and stuff related to this did bother me, but it was the weapon that happened to be around, and she probably didn't have any alternatives in regard to which weapons to use. She probably found a way to make it work since nothing else was available.

Another nagging question I have is: who would have known about the shotgun in her car except her? It's probably not something she went around telling everybody.

here's something I just thought of: what if the boyfriend realized she was about to committ suicide tried to discourage her by taking the gun away but it ended up going off somehow?

kadrmas15 · 02-20-2010, 04:33 AM

Hmm, that is an interesting point Wiseguy. If I were to buy suicide, that would be the theory that would make the most sense. That she was running around all crazy with that gun threatening to off herself and he tried to take it away from her and she was irrational and fighting him and it went off. He then panicked, thinking people would think he shot her but he picked up the gun and put it on the trunk. Basically to me, regardless if one thinks this was suicide or homicide or whatever, it is obvious that someone moved that gun.

justins5256 · 02-20-2010, 10:20 AM

My gut feeling always was that this was a suicide. I feel this way because we have witness testimony that she apparently threatened the act, and then did it with a gun that very likely belonged to her - UM didn't specify where the gun came from but I assume that if it's owner couldn't be identified with certainty, that would be yet another nail in the coffin for the murder theory and it would have been raised on the segment; not unlike Tony Lombardi and why I feel it's safe to assume that the gun belonged to him - or at least belonged in the house.

Also, like Dante said, if we accept the witness testimony at face value, then there basically had to be an unknown party lurking around out there, with no known motive, who just happened to strike in close proximity to witnesses, at a time she was already threatening suicide, and somehow remain undetected. Seems pretty far-fetched.

HOWEVER, there was another thread on this case some time ago and Todd Mueller(?) posted on it and made a good point - we have three experts hired by the family who said she couldn't have pulled the trigger herself. If it's physically impossible for her to hold the gun in such a manner as to inflict the wounds that she had, it has to be a murder, or at least "undetermined" until proven otherwise.

As others have raised, I wonder just how credible the boyfriend and the other witnesses were who allegedly heard her make these statements really were. UM didn't touch on it in any depth. If these people were close to her at the time she allegedly shot herself, they would be key to determining what actually happened.

I wonder if the parents suspect the boyfriend or witnesses but just don't have the evidence to say so and that's why this was seemingly avoided like the plague on the UM segment.

kadrmas15 · 02-20-2010, 11:00 AM

Well I would assume the latter. It is like in any other case where someone assumed someone else did something but because the person thought of had not been charged their name was not mentioned. It was because they (the accuser) was afraid of a defamation civil suit which would have been easy to file if you are accused of murder when you have not been charged or accused of covering something up if you have not been charged.

However, I find it somewhat odd, that people assume someone could not be murdered with their own gun. It has happened many times where people have been murdered with their own weapon. In this case, it could have been an accidental shooting. The problem I have with the suicide theory in this case, is how did she fire the weapon and then how did the weapon happen to be resting perfectly on the trunk while she was laying parallel to the car? I mean, the gun would just not have fallen that way had she shot herself. So clearly at the very least someone moved the gun before the police got there.

Apostapler · 05-28-2010, 02:25 AM

I just listened to this story in my car today (yes I drive to audio recordings of UM...) and did I miss something? Was the boyfriend tested for gun powder residue?

Still confused about whose gun it was.

I have doubts about the suicide due to the bullet trajectory but there isn't enough evidence to charge anyone or rule it a homicide...so I agree with Kadrmas, the only thing that makes sense is undetermined.

XCalibur · 05-28-2010, 09:31 PM

This is one of those cases where you almost feel there has to be more than the broadcast told.

I mean there are a helluva lot easier ways for a girl to kill herself than taking a 12 gauge shotgun thats longer than her arms.

The boyfriend's story about "what do I have to do to prove my love to you kill myself?" Doesn't that sound awful fishy to anyone else?

I mean she is laying dead outside his house shot with his shotgun and he is not even a suspect? Am I missing something here?

brianh333 · 05-29-2010, 02:12 PM

fascinating discussion on this case, previously:

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/...d.php?t=212458

And just as a petty PSA, the correct spelling is "Mossor" - for anyone intent on searching this forum, Google, etc. Probably a lot of hits could be found with "Mosser", though.

Apostapler · 05-30-2010, 07:42 PM

Thank you! I didn't know how to spell her name, and Google didn't have any hits other than this forum with the way I spelled it.

XCalibur · 06-01-2010, 01:32 AM

Correct if I am wrong, but isn't it only the testimony of Rae Ann's boyfriend and his family that says she threatened suicide?

Exceedingly bizarre, has to be more to this case than the broadcast said.

brianh333 · 06-01-2010, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XCalibur

Correct if I am wrong, but isn't it only the testimony of Rae Ann's boyfriend and his family that says she threatened suicide?

Exceedingly bizarre, has to be more to this case than the broadcast said.

Don't ask me why, but the "broomstick recreation" that the actual Mom and Dad did in the kitchen - that was all I needed to hear, to lean heavily towards "no way in hell was it a suicide".

soilentgreen · 06-03-2010, 02:47 PM

I was also skeptical of the suicide angle, based on the position of the shotgun and impossibility for a woman of Mossor's size to have caused a self inflicted wound in that manner. The only thing to counterbalance that is the witness testimony -- none of them claim to have seen her with the shotgun. UM doesn't mention the witnesses' relationship to Mossor or her boyfriend.

By their claim, Mossor threatened suicide, she then left the house, put her key in the her car ignition, turned on her radio, and at some point gets the shotgun (who does it belong to?) and goes by her boyfriend's car. A shot is heard, the boyfriend and the witnesses are not on the scene when police arrive, but in his house? Who called in to report the shooting -- if it was the boyfriend or witnesses wouldn't you check her condition?

There's also no mention of the background of Mossor's relationship with the boyfriend either. Was there any history of violence or arguments between them? Had the boyfriend ever threatened Mossor, or anyone else, with a weapon? Had Mossor ever threatened suicide before other witnesses? I think the argument was the motive for a possible homicide, but UM left out, in my opinion, pertinent information.

XCalibur · 06-06-2010, 07:28 PM

I also don't buy into the accidental discharge theory while trying to shoot out her boyfriend's car windows.

Unless the girl was a total idiot, I can't imagine how she could manage to accidentally shoot herself right in the chest while trying to shoot something else.

I personally feel this case is a clear cut one of police incompetence and sorriness. It goes on all across the country, they want to write deaths off as suicide because they are to lazy to investigate it.

I mean if some private investigator can figure out the impossibility of a shotgun discharging, the police should have been able to as well.

cocytus · 09-16-2010, 09:24 AM

W/O knowing more evidence as far Rae Ann Mossor's mental state, how her relationship w/ her ex-boyfriend was and why she was at her ex's home that night,IMHO,it's not possible to make a judgment.

The segment I saw concentrated mainly on the how the shotgun might not been able to be used in the manner suggested. Not whether there was any GSR on Rae Ann's hands not whether the shotgun was pressed against her body and the main question I have: whose weapon was it?

Anybody heard/read anything about this case recently?

02-20-2010, 02:06 AM	#1
DarkDante Member Senior Member Join Date: Jul 27, 2002 Posts: 1,569	Rae Ann Mossor - Bizarre Case This case has always bothered me. As a rule when watching UM I try to surmise the most logical outcome of a case and go from there. With this case it's pretty simple. Mosser arrived at the home of her ex-boyfriend and after failing to get him to reconcile with her, threatened to kill herself. She then went out to her boyfriend's car, grabbed a shotgun and made good on her threat. What makes me personally believe this is a suicide is that the probability of a stranger coming along and shooting Mosser within the few minutes between her conversation with her boyfriend and the act of shooting herself is extremely unlikely. That leads me to believe that either Rae Ann Mosser killed herself or someone who was in her company in the moments before she died killed her. What makes this case so bizarre is that Rae Ann's parents make a very credible case that Mosser did not commit suicide despite the overwhelming logical explanation that she did. They took measurements of the gun and got several experts to perform tests which showed that due to the way Rae Ann was positioned when she allegedly shot herself that she would've been unable to pull the trigger of the shotgun by herself and inflict the type of wound she received. Eventually Rae Ann's cause of death was changed from suicide to undetermined. Although I am of the belief that Mosser committed suicide, I think there are several questions that are still left open with this case. Thoughts?

05-29-2010, 02:12 PM	#9
brianh333 Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Apr 15, 2010 Posts: 98	fascinating discussion on this case, previously: http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/...d.php?t=212458 And just as a petty PSA, the correct spelling is "Mossor" - for anyone intent on searching this forum, Google, etc. Probably a lot of hits could be found with "Mosser", though.
	__________________ The above post was about unsolved mysteries. Whenever possible, the actual author (not a police official) has participated in re-creating the events. What you just got done reading was NOT a news broadcast.

02-20-2010, 02:48 AM	#2
kadrmas15 Retired from Board 03/03/11 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 11, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,910	Hmm, I personally lean against suicide in this instance. I am no firearms expert, but I would think if the trajectory of the shotgun slug were to be determined it would be more obvious. But this is a situation to where, well, first off, whose shot gun was it? I had the impression that it was the Mossor's shot gun. However that fact was not revealed for sure in the segment. However, while not impossible, it is hard for someone to kill themselves with a shotgun, the gun was too long for her to have pulled the trigger with her fingers, which means that she could have fired it with her toe. However one problem there. She was laying in a position right next to the car, parallel to her boyfriend's car. Yet the gun was resting perfectly on the top of the trunk? I mean, had she shot herself, the gun would have fallen to the ground and not landed on the top of the trunk. The way the gun was placed there, it looked like someone had set the gun there. It was the way someone would lay down a gun, not the way that a gun would fall if someone killed themselves and the gun just dropped. Now, is there enough here to charge the boyfriend or anyone with homicide? No. It is kind of a frustrating case, but I feel undetermined is the right ruling. There is not enough to show there is a suicide and not enough to show it is a homicide either, however there are some disturbing questions here. Such as, it is pretty obvious if the gun had fallen to the ground, someone moved it before the police got there and put it on the trunk. The question is, who was it and why would they move it? Also something else that never really added up to me. Now it is easy to second guess after the fact and play Monday morning quarterback, however, the boyfriend's story about 'what do I have to do to prove my love to you, kill myself?' I don't know, that just does not fly to me. I mean I get people do irrational, stupid stuff, but okay, let's just say for the sake of argument that she really did say that and that these three witnesses who allegedly overheard this, lets say all of them are telling the truth, even so, it seems mighty interesting how someone that was allegedly so hell bent on offing herself, I mean, why did no one try to stop her from doing this? I also find it strange that while all these people allegedly overheard this, none of them saw her shoot herself.

02-20-2010, 04:19 AM	#3
wiseguy182 Member Forum Veteran Join Date: Apr 11, 2006 Location: Wendy's salad bar Posts: 7,030	the lack of an apparent motive, suspect and the deceased's statement regarding killing herself all point to suicide. Initially, the issue of could she have killed herself given the trajectory, placement of the gun and stuff related to this did bother me, but it was the weapon that happened to be around, and she probably didn't have any alternatives in regard to which weapons to use. She probably found a way to make it work since nothing else was available. Another nagging question I have is: who would have known about the shotgun in her car except her? It's probably not something she went around telling everybody. here's something I just thought of: what if the boyfriend realized she was about to committ suicide tried to discourage her by taking the gun away but it ended up going off somehow?

02-20-2010, 04:33 AM	#4
kadrmas15 Retired from Board 03/03/11 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 11, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,910	Hmm, that is an interesting point Wiseguy. If I were to buy suicide, that would be the theory that would make the most sense. That she was running around all crazy with that gun threatening to off herself and he tried to take it away from her and she was irrational and fighting him and it went off. He then panicked, thinking people would think he shot her but he picked up the gun and put it on the trunk. Basically to me, regardless if one thinks this was suicide or homicide or whatever, it is obvious that someone moved that gun.

02-20-2010, 10:20 AM	#5
justins5256 Member Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 08, 2002 Posts: 3,866	My gut feeling always was that this was a suicide. I feel this way because we have witness testimony that she apparently threatened the act, and then did it with a gun that very likely belonged to her - UM didn't specify where the gun came from but I assume that if it's owner couldn't be identified with certainty, that would be yet another nail in the coffin for the murder theory and it would have been raised on the segment; not unlike Tony Lombardi and why I feel it's safe to assume that the gun belonged to him - or at least belonged in the house. Also, like Dante said, if we accept the witness testimony at face value, then there basically had to be an unknown party lurking around out there, with no known motive, who just happened to strike in close proximity to witnesses, at a time she was already threatening suicide, and somehow remain undetected. Seems pretty far-fetched. HOWEVER, there was another thread on this case some time ago and Todd Mueller(?) posted on it and made a good point - we have three experts hired by the family who said she couldn't have pulled the trigger herself. If it's physically impossible for her to hold the gun in such a manner as to inflict the wounds that she had, it has to be a murder, or at least "undetermined" until proven otherwise. As others have raised, I wonder just how credible the boyfriend and the other witnesses were who allegedly heard her make these statements really were. UM didn't touch on it in any depth. If these people were close to her at the time she allegedly shot herself, they would be key to determining what actually happened. I wonder if the parents suspect the boyfriend or witnesses but just don't have the evidence to say so and that's why this was seemingly avoided like the plague on the UM segment.

02-20-2010, 11:00 AM	#6
kadrmas15 Retired from Board 03/03/11 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 11, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,910	Well I would assume the latter. It is like in any other case where someone assumed someone else did something but because the person thought of had not been charged their name was not mentioned. It was because they (the accuser) was afraid of a defamation civil suit which would have been easy to file if you are accused of murder when you have not been charged or accused of covering something up if you have not been charged. However, I find it somewhat odd, that people assume someone could not be murdered with their own gun. It has happened many times where people have been murdered with their own weapon. In this case, it could have been an accidental shooting. The problem I have with the suicide theory in this case, is how did she fire the weapon and then how did the weapon happen to be resting perfectly on the trunk while she was laying parallel to the car? I mean, the gun would just not have fallen that way had she shot herself. So clearly at the very least someone moved the gun before the police got there.

05-28-2010, 02:25 AM	#7
Apostapler Member Forum Regular Join Date: Mar 06, 2009 Location: Indiana Posts: 872	I just listened to this story in my car today (yes I drive to audio recordings of UM...) and did I miss something? Was the boyfriend tested for gun powder residue? Still confused about whose gun it was. I have doubts about the suicide due to the bullet trajectory but there isn't enough evidence to charge anyone or rule it a homicide...so I agree with Kadrmas, the only thing that makes sense is undetermined.

05-28-2010, 09:31 PM	#8
XCalibur Member Forum Regular Join Date: May 16, 2010 Location: Belfast, Va Posts: 987	This is one of those cases where you almost feel there has to be more than the broadcast told. I mean there are a helluva lot easier ways for a girl to kill herself than taking a 12 gauge shotgun thats longer than her arms. The boyfriend's story about "what do I have to do to prove my love to you kill myself?" Doesn't that sound awful fishy to anyone else? I mean she is laying dead outside his house shot with his shotgun and he is not even a suspect? Am I missing something here?

05-30-2010, 07:42 PM	#10
Apostapler Member Forum Regular Join Date: Mar 06, 2009 Location: Indiana Posts: 872	Thank you! I didn't know how to spell her name, and Google didn't have any hits other than this forum with the way I spelled it.

06-01-2010, 01:32 AM	#11
XCalibur Member Forum Regular Join Date: May 16, 2010 Location: Belfast, Va Posts: 987	Correct if I am wrong, but isn't it only the testimony of Rae Ann's boyfriend and his family that says she threatened suicide? Exceedingly bizarre, has to be more to this case than the broadcast said.

06-03-2010, 02:47 PM	#13
soilentgreen Member Forum Regular Join Date: Oct 13, 2005 Posts: 622	I was also skeptical of the suicide angle, based on the position of the shotgun and impossibility for a woman of Mossor's size to have caused a self inflicted wound in that manner. The only thing to counterbalance that is the witness testimony -- none of them claim to have seen her with the shotgun. UM doesn't mention the witnesses' relationship to Mossor or her boyfriend. By their claim, Mossor threatened suicide, she then left the house, put her key in the her car ignition, turned on her radio, and at some point gets the shotgun (who does it belong to?) and goes by her boyfriend's car. A shot is heard, the boyfriend and the witnesses are not on the scene when police arrive, but in his house? Who called in to report the shooting -- if it was the boyfriend or witnesses wouldn't you check her condition? There's also no mention of the background of Mossor's relationship with the boyfriend either. Was there any history of violence or arguments between them? Had the boyfriend ever threatened Mossor, or anyone else, with a weapon? Had Mossor ever threatened suicide before other witnesses? I think the argument was the motive for a possible homicide, but UM left out, in my opinion, pertinent information.

06-06-2010, 07:28 PM	#14
XCalibur Member Forum Regular Join Date: May 16, 2010 Location: Belfast, Va Posts: 987	I also don't buy into the accidental discharge theory while trying to shoot out her boyfriend's car windows. Unless the girl was a total idiot, I can't imagine how she could manage to accidentally shoot herself right in the chest while trying to shoot something else. I personally feel this case is a clear cut one of police incompetence and sorriness. It goes on all across the country, they want to write deaths off as suicide because they are to lazy to investigate it. I mean if some private investigator can figure out the impossibility of a shotgun discharging, the police should have been able to as well.

09-16-2010, 09:24 AM	#15
cocytus Member Forum Regular Join Date: Sep 15, 2010 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 781	W/O knowing more evidence as far Rae Ann Mossor's mental state, how her relationship w/ her ex-boyfriend was and why she was at her ex's home that night,IMHO,it's not possible to make a judgment. The segment I saw concentrated mainly on the how the shotgun might not been able to be used in the manner suggested. Not whether there was any GSR on Rae Ann's hands not whether the shotgun was pressed against her body and the main question I have: whose weapon was it? Anybody heard/read anything about this case recently?