Dennis Walker's baseball memorabilia collection

[zack007attack]

What do you guys think happened to his collection? I remember the segment said about $120,000 worth of his collection surfaced after his death, but the rest has yet to be found.
I see a few possibilities:

He sold them to some foreign collectors who then took the items with them out of the country.

He buried them in some remote location to return to someday (like some gold prospectors do), but took his own life when he thought he was going to get caught soon.

[crystaldawn]

Originally Posted by zack007attack

What do you guys think happened to his collection? I remember the segment said about $120,000 worth of his collection surfaced after his death, but the rest has yet to be found.
I see a few possibilities:

He sold them to some foreign collectors who then took the items with them out of the country.

He buried them in some remote location to return to someday (like some gold prospectors do), but took his own life when he thought he was going to get caught soon.

I would lean towards thats it all out there somewhere. The theory of a foreign collector buying the collection makes a lot of sense. It does appear that he committed suicide so I could see him selling it all before that happened. Not sure if he had a family or not but if he did maybe he found a way to get the money he made to them. I had noticed that Dennis Walker and Steven Cox were both operating in the same area, probably around the same time. I've wondered if they ever met up or had any dealings with one another.

[bell83]

Originally Posted by zack007attack

What do you guys think happened to his collection? I remember the segment said about $120,000 worth of his collection surfaced after his death, but the rest has yet to be found.
I see a few possibilities:

He sold them to some foreign collectors who then took the items with them out of the country.

He buried them in some remote location to return to someday (like some gold prospectors do), but took his own life when he thought he was going to get caught soon.

Being a baseball fan and a history fan, I really hope it isn't the second possibility...

[kadrmas15]

Personally I always thought that Dennis Walker and Stephen Cox did have dealings with each other. They were both in Medford, Oregon at around the same time and both were having their stuff going on at around the same time. I do think Walker was the 'mysterious man' Cox was seen interacting with and dealing with at the golf course. My guess is Walker was also screwed over by Cox. I think Walker when he knew the crap was going to hit the fan, started selling his collection bit by bit, trying to make enough money to stay afloat. Is it for sure though that Walker committed suicide or was he murdered? I mean Walker had quite the collection. For only about 120 grand of that collection to turn up which is only a fraction of that collection when he had what, 4 or 5 million dollars worth of memorabilia? Remember, that he had Pete Rose as his special guest? Now I like Pete Rose but I think the segment was filmed not long before Rose himself was banned from the game for life for placing bets on his team.

[marlins3]

Originally Posted by kadrmas15

Personally I always thought that Dennis Walker and Stephen Cox did have dealings with each other. They were both in Medford, Oregon at around the same time and both were having their stuff going on at around the same time. I do think Walker was the 'mysterious man' Cox was seen interacting with and dealing with at the golf course. My guess is Walker was also screwed over by Cox. I think Walker when he knew the crap was going to hit the fan, started selling his collection bit by bit, trying to make enough money to stay afloat. Is it for sure though that Walker committed suicide or was he murdered? I mean Walker had quite the collection. For only about 120 grand of that collection to turn up which is only a fraction of that collection when he had what, 4 or 5 million dollars worth of memorabilia? Remember, that he had Pete Rose as his special guest? Now I like Pete Rose but I think the segment was filmed not long before Rose himself was banned from the game for life for placing bets on his team.

I agree with this as I have had this same theory as wel (though I'm not sure that Walker was ripped off by Cox. I wonder if they actually had a very loose partnership). As you pointed out, both man ran similar scams (basiacally pyramid schemes), had similar interests (when Cox was arrested, they found numerous high-money baseball cards and othe rmemorabilia) in his collection. Finally both men offered (I believe) the same 25% interest return to each investor (I know Walker's was 25%. I believe Cox's was also 25% but haven't watched his segment in a long time so I could be wrong). BTW, Pete Rose was banned in 1989. I hope he's not reinstated any time soon.

[kadrmas15]

Hey Marlins, well interesting opinion although I disagree with you on Rose. The main reason why is, why was the book thrown at Rose for? I mean, Rose gambled on his own team but he never gambled against his team. It was not like the 'Black Sox' scandal of 1919 where a great White Sox team, well 7 players on the team had taken pay offs in exchange for throwing the series to the Cincinnati Reds. I mean those 7 players were banned for life too but it is rare someone gets banned for life in any sport, let alone baseball and I guess I have always found it a bit odd how Pete Rose got the book thrown at him but yet steroid users, wife beaters, etc, no ban.

[bell83]

Originally Posted by kadrmas15

Hey Marlins, well interesting opinion although I disagree with you on Rose. The main reason why is, why was the book thrown at Rose for? I mean, Rose gambled on his own team but he never gambled against his team. It was not like the 'Black Sox' scandal of 1919 where a great White Sox team, well 7 players on the team had taken pay offs in exchange for throwing the series to the Cincinnati Reds. I mean those 7 players were banned for life too but it is rare someone gets banned for life in any sport, let alone baseball and I guess I have always found it a bit odd how Pete Rose got the book thrown at him but yet steroid users, wife beaters, etc, no ban.

It all depends on the Commissioner of Baseball. For instance, Willie Mays and Mickey Mantle were both banned from baseball AFTER they retired because they worked as greeters at a casino. However, they were reinstated by the next Commissioner.

[kadrmas15]

Yes, the Commissioner that banned Rose, he died of a massive heart attack 7 days after banning Rose. Rose has applied to be reinstated and I think Rose will be reinstated. Bud Selig came close to reinstating him last year and I think before Selig's term ends he will reinstate Pete Rose. I was also not aware that both Willie Mays and Mickey Mantle, who like Rose were among the greatest players of all time were banned from the game after they retired because they worked at casinos. I am glad they were reinstated though.

[marlins3]

I think steroid abusers should be barred from the Hall as well. Now, I will be VERY surprised if a lot of info ever officially comes out about Bonds' steroid use. However, the proof is in the body, or rather head. The human head will not significantly grow on its own. The head will only grow with disease or chemical use. Bonds' head was significantly larger in 2006 than in 1992.

On Rose, no he did not actually bet on his team to lose. However, Rose was the manager of the Reds. On the nights he bet less or bet did not bet, it was a clear tipoff that the Reds weren't expected to do well that night (which is a sign to everybody else gambling on that game). BTW, Dowd later said he believed Rose had bet against the Reds, particularly on nights when Mario Soto and Bill Gullickson pitched, because they were lesser pitchers.

Now, I will admit that my 3 all-time favorite players are Ruth, Stargell, and Schmidt. Ruth wasn't exactly a pillar of society. So I guess I come across as a bit of a hypocrite.

[DP1]

Originally Posted by kadrmas15

Yes, the Commissioner that banned Rose, he died of a massive heart attack 7 days after banning Rose. Rose has applied to be reinstated and I think Rose will be reinstated. Bud Selig came close to reinstating him last year and I think before Selig's term ends he will reinstate Pete Rose. I was also not aware that both Willie Mays and Mickey Mantle, who like Rose were among the greatest players of all time were banned from the game after they retired because they worked at casinos. I am glad they were reinstated though.

The Commissioner was A. Bart Giamatti, who also happened to be the father of actor Paul Giamatti.

Is this the collection that included Babe Ruth's uniform? I remember hearing several times that piece was stolen and they still don't know where it is.

[DarkDante]

Pete Rose from a position player standpoint is probably my favorite baseball player of all time. Although I personally would like to see him reinstated, I totally understand why he is banned. He broke a rule that was very clearly stated on the books regarding gambling. It's not like steroids or whatever else people drum up as reasons someone should be ineligible for the HOF.

Personally I've long accepted that the game of baseball is dirty so I'm either left with a choice to either not watch the game or accept that facet of the game and move on. Personally I'm headed to Yankees spring training in two weeks.
===============
Now I have a funny story regarding Charlie Hustle and Dennis Walker gleaned from several a Pete Rose biography "Collision at Home Plate" by David Jordan:

- In 1975 Pete Rose became the last recipient of the Hickok Award which was given to the athlete of the year. The recipient received a gold belt not unlike one of Ric Flair's old wrestling championship belts except this one was actually covered in diamonds and rubies and was valued at around thirty grand.

A decade after Rose received the belt he "passed it on" to Dennis Walker whom he considered a "business associate". Although Walker and Rose had already made dealings for tons of authentic Pete Rose memorabilia including one of his three silver bats, his first spring training uniform and several rings, Walker coveted the Hickok belt.

Rose would eventually sell the belt to Walker for $30,000 but not before Rose swerved Walker by having all the real diamonds and gems removed from the belt and having them replaced by worthless bobbles. Rose then had the real diamonds made into a pendant for his wife. Walker not being an expert on jewels by any stretch of the imagination was none the wiser when he received the Hickok belt from Rose.

However, in the end it was Walker who would end up swerving Pete Rose. Unable to fork over the thirty grand for the belt, Walker put down twenty grand and to pay off the remaining balance offered Rose $50,000 in stock from his Bank in Tonga (as detailed in the UM segment). Of course as we all know Walker's stock much like his promissory notes were worthless.

So in the end what we had here is a case of two slick foxes trying to outwit each other. Walker ended up with a Hickok belt that was worth considerably less than it was worth when it was awarded to Rose in 1975 and Rose ended up with fifty grand of worthless stock. At least he got some money from Walker up front eh? He made out better in that regard than the rest of Walker's clients.

[kadrmas15]

Yeah, Pete Rose, well he did voluntarily agree to the ban but I think when he agreed to it, he never actually thought he would be banned for life. I think he thought he would do a few years and get let back in. Interesting choice on favorite players Marlins, Willie Stargell and Mike Schmidt, are you originally from Pennsylvania? I like both too, Stargell was a machine as was Schmidt. Babe Ruth, well he was a womanizer and a drunk but neither is illegal.

[DarkDante]

I wanted to add a few other things on Dennis Walker:

- First it's pretty obvious (at least to me) that Dennis Walker was the victim of a gangland style killing possibly a contract hit. I believe much like Stephen Cox, Walker spent the last years of his life on the run due to the fact that he had a very legitimate fear that someone was going to try to kill him.

I would not be at all surprised if Walker ended up owing a significant amount of money to the wrong person and his death was the result of owing this person money. From what I understand, his death has all the earmarks of a mafia style hit

- According to Baseball Card News magazine, Walker owed Rose $700,000 at the time of his death.

- The FBI reopened the investigation in Walker's missing sports memorabilia in 1989 after $10,000 worth of Walker's collection turned up in New York. This information was published via the AP in April, 1989. The UM segment I believe aired in 1988...perhaps more of Walker's collection turned up after the segment aired?

- As published in Hustle: The Myth, Life, and Lies of Pete Rose by Mike Sokolove, Rose believed that the man found in Las Vegas under the name of Charles Lee was not Dennis Walker. Rose instead believed that Walker was still alive and was continuing to sell his (Rose's) memorabilia on the market.

- In a strange twist of fate the diamond pendant that Rose had made out of the jewels on the Hickok belt prior to selling it to Walker was also eventually stolen by thieves. According to Sokolove in the spring of 1990 burglers broke into the Roses' home and stole much of Carol Rose's jewelry.

- Finally the following dated June 2007 from a sports memorabilia message board from someone claiming to be Dennis Walker's son:

"Pete Rose came to my dad's sports museum opening in Medford, Oregon in 1985. We hung out with him a lot. It was during my Junior year of high school basketball and we had a game that night. My dad was telling Pete how I was the best player in the state and Pete said I'll be there tonight to watch ya. He never showed. He said the next day that it would have caused too much of a ruckus if he showed up. Anyway, it would have been cool to tell people that Pete Rose came to see me play a game in high school."
======================
After being asked if this was the abandoned bank building in Medford, Oregon, Walker's son responded with the following:

"Yea, that's the place Howard. That was my father's. He had about everything: Babe Ruth complete uniform, Players rings, team trophies, tons of gamers, 3 Honus Wagner T206 cards, etc. I think he charged a dollar a person to come view it all. It really was amazing. This was mid-80's before everyone starting going crazy collecting the stuff. He did a lot of business with Rose. He had Rose's Hickcock belt and many of his bats, rings, etc. In two of Rose's books-Hustle and the Rose/Giamatti book it talks of their business dealings for a couple of pages. It all ended ugly in 1987 when Dennis Walker was found dead in a Vegas hotel. Foul play was what the FBI determined. All his stuff disappeared. It's a long story. My father was doing some shady things with some shady people unfortunately. My mom and his 5 sons had to move to Nevada to live with my Mom's parents. He left us with nothing. For my graduation in 87 he had given me a Michael Jordan rookie home jersey. BUT, we had to sell it two years later to pay bills. Sold it for 2,000! If nothing else he left us with the sports collecting bug and all of his sons are doing really well: College professor, Lawyer, High School teacher and coach, and two big time insurance guys. That's the story in a nut shell." - Greg

Note: Because Walker's son posted this information on a sports memorabilia forum and not a UM/true-crime related forum I'm opting not to publish the link to this forum. He is a regular poster there to this day and I'm not sure if he'd want to be messaged by a hoard of UM fans asking about his father.

[bell83]

Originally Posted by DP1

The Commissioner was A. Bart Giamatti, who also happened to be the father of actor Paul Giamatti.

Is this the collection that included Babe Ruth's uniform? I remember hearing several times that piece was stolen and they still don't know where it is.

Yes, it was. There was also some Mantle items, and if I remember right, some Gehrig items. Mantle and Gehrig are my two favorite players, so I hope the collection is somewhere where someone is able to enjoy it.

[marlins3]

Originally Posted by kadrmas15

Yeah, Pete Rose, well he did voluntarily agree to the ban but I think when he agreed to it, he never actually thought he would be banned for life. I think he thought he would do a few years and get let back in. Interesting choice on favorite players Marlins, Willie Stargell and Mike Schmidt, are you originally from Pennsylvania? I like both too, Stargell was a machine as was Schmidt. Babe Ruth, well he was a womanizer and a drunk but neither is illegal.

I am from PA but that has little to do with my favorite players (I don't particularly care for any PA-based sports team. Actually, I still live in PA (north of Pittsburgh). I'm a bit of a historian at heart. Stargell was actually before my time. I was 2 when he retired. When Schmidt hung it up in 1989 I started following a young kid (born in PA, oddly enough) named Ken Griffey Jr. He's been my favorite player since then. The Ruth thing started when I was a very young elementary school student. I always enjoyed Clemente as well (again long before my time, but books, tapes, etc allow us to see and read about them. When others were reading Bernstein Bears books or the Babysitter's club series for Book-IT!, I was Reading [I]Remembering Roberto
and DRIVE: The Story of My Life (Larry Bird). I was a Pirates fan until 1991 when the Marlins Franchise was announced. I watched the Pirates in 1992 but held on with baited-breath for the Marlins to begin play in 1993.

In football, I'm a lifelong Dolphins fan (have been since birth lol). My dad is a Phins fan too (which is probably why I started liking them). In the NBA, I love the Celtics (again, lifelong).

To get back on baseball, I love Koufax (best pitcher ever, IMO--even if his career was only 12 seasons with just 6 great years), Bob Feller,Randy Johnson, Bob Gibson, Josh Gibson, Johnny Bench, and Brooks Robinson. I used to like Roger Clemens. NEVER liked Bonds, even when he was in Pittsburgh.