When the original producers/writers left... - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Helen Chapel · 02-06-2010, 03:21 PM

...did you notice a shift in tone? It happened after season 4. The 5th season of Wings and the 1st season of Frasier are the same.

Chocoholic · 02-07-2010, 02:14 AM

I also thought there was a big shift after the original producers left to do Frasier. The writing did get weaker after that too, although I still find seasons 5 and 6 funny.

TV DVD Fan · 05-16-2010, 12:32 AM

The first three seasons of Wings were very sharply written and the performers were at the height of their game. In my opinion though, from season four on the show went downhill. Even though the original staff was still there in season four, I think they were probably already occupied with getting Frasier started so the material got weaker. I did not care for the Alex character, and then starting in season six when Casey was introduced, the show got even more annoying for me. I also love Tony Shalhoub but I could only take Antonio in very small doses, so once the writers started writing practically a B story every episode for him in the latter seasons, I simply couldn't stand the character anymore. His first episode in season two and even his episodes in season three were great but as he started to "make the character his own" as the show progressed, it went downhill for me, especially as the writers became obsessed with making Antonio the most depressed character in the history of television. Also, once the sexual tension was gone between Joe and Helen when they were engaged, their chemistry for me kind of got up and left. Lowell was also at his funniest in the first few years as he was mainly used as a Woody Boyd type character whose exaggerated stories and inane logic was hysterical. Brian was a goofy and lovable character mainly used for comic relief the first few years, and then in the later years all's we saw was the frustrated Brian trying to deal with the concept of "settling down" while the once hyper, neurotic (and funny) Joe sat down in his office trying to choose which carpet and drapes scheme worked best for the house. And Roy and Fay worked best when they were written as the Carla Tortelli type who made fun of his competition/friends to make him feel better about his own insecurities and the batty, slightly eccentric yet lovable ticket agent respectively. In the latter years, Roy was simply a pain in the ass "neighbor" type, and Fay became a bitchy jaded woman who became very self-centered--- which simply didn't work. I don't believe there was one character in this show who did not undergo a drastic character trait change as the seasons went by, and this was not a good thing. The characters, the writing, and even the direction and most importantly, the charm of the show will always be in its inaugural seasons--- season two being the strongest of the show's eight.

Helen Chapel · 05-17-2010, 01:52 PM

Interesting post, TV DVD fan. I don't think there was a change inbetween season 3 and 4, but i have noticed some fans noticing a change between the early first two seasons and the middle seasons. I think this is because in season three producer Christopher Lloyd was brought on, but left when Frasier start, so he was gone by season five. I think the difference was season 1 and 2 were more about the conflict of brothers, where as season three started more of an ensemble show.

As for Alex, I believe the producers brought her on merely as a means for conflict between Brian and Joe, because the initial conflict between them over Carol and Helen was already played out. I actually think they could've dragged it on a bit longer, but alas.

Changes in the characters, I agree. Joe in particular bothered me. In the earlier seasons he was the voice of reason where as later on, he became sort of bitter and childlike. There wasn't that voice of reason anymore. Brian just became more pathetic and whiny. Helen lost her feistiness. Roy in the early seasons was very instrumental as a foil that made for great ensemble stories (Sports & Leisure; Try to Remember the Night he Dismembered etc) where as that kind of conflict was lacking in the later episodes.

I guess it comes down to is the original producers ran out of ideas of what to do, so in turn the characters were handed over to others and made to be more cartoony and outrageous for laughs rather than being more grounded into character drama --and the humor stemming from the irony of that-- during the earlier seasons.

02-06-2010, 03:21 PM	#1
Helen Chapel Wings fan Occasional Poster Join Date: Apr 20, 2003 Location: USA Posts: 73	When the original producers/writers left... ...did you notice a shift in tone? It happened after season 4. The 5th season of Wings and the 1st season of Frasier are the same.

05-16-2010, 12:32 AM	#3
TV DVD Fan Member Senior Member Join Date: Apr 07, 2005 Posts: 2,602	The first three seasons of Wings were very sharply written and the performers were at the height of their game. In my opinion though, from season four on the show went downhill. Even though the original staff was still there in season four, I think they were probably already occupied with getting Frasier started so the material got weaker. I did not care for the Alex character, and then starting in season six when Casey was introduced, the show got even more annoying for me. I also love Tony Shalhoub but I could only take Antonio in very small doses, so once the writers started writing practically a B story every episode for him in the latter seasons, I simply couldn't stand the character anymore. His first episode in season two and even his episodes in season three were great but as he started to "make the character his own" as the show progressed, it went downhill for me, especially as the writers became obsessed with making Antonio the most depressed character in the history of television. Also, once the sexual tension was gone between Joe and Helen when they were engaged, their chemistry for me kind of got up and left. Lowell was also at his funniest in the first few years as he was mainly used as a Woody Boyd type character whose exaggerated stories and inane logic was hysterical. Brian was a goofy and lovable character mainly used for comic relief the first few years, and then in the later years all's we saw was the frustrated Brian trying to deal with the concept of "settling down" while the once hyper, neurotic (and funny) Joe sat down in his office trying to choose which carpet and drapes scheme worked best for the house. And Roy and Fay worked best when they were written as the Carla Tortelli type who made fun of his competition/friends to make him feel better about his own insecurities and the batty, slightly eccentric yet lovable ticket agent respectively. In the latter years, Roy was simply a pain in the ass "neighbor" type, and Fay became a bitchy jaded woman who became very self-centered--- which simply didn't work. I don't believe there was one character in this show who did not undergo a drastic character trait change as the seasons went by, and this was not a good thing. The characters, the writing, and even the direction and most importantly, the charm of the show will always be in its inaugural seasons--- season two being the strongest of the show's eight.
	__________________ Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles Sarah Connor: Maybe if you spend your life hiding who you are, you might finally end up fooling yourself. - From the episode "Gnothi Seauton."

02-07-2010, 02:14 AM	#2
Chocoholic Member Forum Star Join Date: Dec 01, 2000 Location: Between a rock and a hard place. Posts: 11,235	I also thought there was a big shift after the original producers left to do Frasier. The writing did get weaker after that too, although I still find seasons 5 and 6 funny.

05-17-2010, 01:52 PM	#4
Helen Chapel Wings fan Occasional Poster Join Date: Apr 20, 2003 Location: USA Posts: 73	Interesting post, TV DVD fan. I don't think there was a change inbetween season 3 and 4, but i have noticed some fans noticing a change between the early first two seasons and the middle seasons. I think this is because in season three producer Christopher Lloyd was brought on, but left when Frasier start, so he was gone by season five. I think the difference was season 1 and 2 were more about the conflict of brothers, where as season three started more of an ensemble show. As for Alex, I believe the producers brought her on merely as a means for conflict between Brian and Joe, because the initial conflict between them over Carol and Helen was already played out. I actually think they could've dragged it on a bit longer, but alas. Changes in the characters, I agree. Joe in particular bothered me. In the earlier seasons he was the voice of reason where as later on, he became sort of bitter and childlike. There wasn't that voice of reason anymore. Brian just became more pathetic and whiny. Helen lost her feistiness. Roy in the early seasons was very instrumental as a foil that made for great ensemble stories (Sports & Leisure; Try to Remember the Night he Dismembered etc) where as that kind of conflict was lacking in the later episodes. I guess it comes down to is the original producers ran out of ideas of what to do, so in turn the characters were handed over to others and made to be more cartoony and outrageous for laughs rather than being more grounded into character drama --and the humor stemming from the irony of that-- during the earlier seasons.