The Mamas and the Papas - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Nighthawk76 · 12-29-2009, 04:02 PM

One of the more interesting experiences that I've had of late is reading Mackenzie Phiilips's book High On Arrival twice and learning how truly sick in the head her father John Phillips was, but at the same time discovering that I really like the Mamas and the Papas.

I've often heard John Phillips referred to as a muscial genius, but I could never see him on the same level as other 60's musical geniuses as John Lennon, Jimmy Page, Keith Richards, Jim Morrison and Eric Clapton. Though I always thought that "California Dreamin" was a a good song.

I couple of weeks ago I picked up a used copy of The Mamas and the Papas Greatest Hits at Halfprice Books. At the time I was in the process of rereading MacKenzie's book and couldn't yet bring myself to listen to her father's music, knowing what kind of man he was. Finally in the middle of last week I listened to the CD and loved it! I've been playing it regulary since. I even used a Borders gift card yesterday to order a more extensive collection called The Mamas and Papas Gold.

John Phllips was unquestionably a man with serious mental problems. He could have had a success solo career but was more interested in drinking and getting high, which sent him to an early grave. He also slept with his own daughter and got her pregnant. Still, the man was a gifted songwriter and bandleader. Its a shame that John didn't take more care of his God given gifts.

I still think "California Dreamin" is their best song. I also really like "Monday, Monday", "Dream A Little Dream Of Me", Dedicated To The One I Love" among others.

Pitooey · 12-29-2009, 06:25 PM

It's a shame what he did. I grew up listening to this band but after MacKenzie said what happened to her I seem to hear the songs differently now.

MickeyMac · 12-29-2009, 06:36 PM

John Philips we now know was a sick f*ck. In spite of that, I have always dug their music. They were a part of that great LA scene that gave us the Byrds, Turtles, Love, and the Buffalo Springfield. Their debut LP If You Can Believe Your Eyes and Ears is worth hearing.

catlover79 · 01-01-2010, 04:01 PM

While John was the primary songwriter for the group, played guitar and sang harmony vocals, it's important to note that the two who did 95% of the lead vocals were Denny Doherty and Cass Elliot. Michelle Phillips did sing lead on songs like "Dedicated to the One I Love", "Got a Feeling" and "Step Out" (the latter was a co-lead with Denny). I can't think of any songs offhand that John sang the lead on.

John and Michelle's daughter, Chynna, covered "Got a Feeling" in 2007. It was part of a compilation called "A Song For My Father", where musicians' kids sang their fathers' songs. Chynna's Wilson Phillips groupmates Carnie and Wendy Wilson did a cover of their father Brian's "Warmth of the Sun". Jen Chapin, Matthew and Gunnar Nelson, A.J. Croce, Devon Allman, Louise Goffen, Ben Taylor and Salvador Santana are some of the others on the CD. They all did a great job!!

Nighthawk76 · 01-02-2010, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catlover79

While John was the primary songwriter for the group, played guitar and sang harmony vocals, it's important to note that the two who did 95% of the lead vocals were Denny Doherty and Cass Elliot. Michelle Phillips did sing lead on songs like "Dedicated to the One I Love", "Got a Feeling" and "Step Out" (the latter was a co-lead with Denny). I can't think of any songs offhand that John sang the lead on.

John and Michelle's daughter, Chynna, covered "Got a Feeling" in 2007. It was part of a compilation called "A Song For My Father", where musicians' kids sang their fathers' songs. Chynna's Wilson Phillips groupmates Carnie and Wendy Wilson did a cover of their father Brian's "Warmth of the Sun". Jen Chapin, Matthew and Gunnar Nelson, A.J. Croce, Devon Allman, Louise Goffen, Ben Taylor and Salvador Santana are some of the others on the CD. They all did a great job!!

I actually thought it was John who sang lead vocals.

Also, I want to add "Creeque Alley" and "Twelve-Thirty (Young Girls Are Coming To The Canyon)" among my favorites.

MrCleveland · 01-02-2010, 12:29 PM

John Phillips was a good friend of Scott McKenzie, as a matter of fact, he had him sing the song "San Fransisco".

Phillips also co-wrote "Kokomo" for the Beach Boys...the worst Beach Boys song ever!

Another fact...The Mamas and the Papas were to sing the song "Sundays Will Never Be The Same", but it was sent to another band that was very similar to the Mamas and the Papas...Spanky and Our Gang. Well...Elaine 'Spanky' McFarlane replaced 'Mama' Cass Elliot for awhile.

catlover79 · 01-02-2010, 02:57 PM

Yep, Denny Doherty was the lead male vocalist of M&P, while Cass was the lead female vocalist. Here are some videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJVOr...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7Krl...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xKyQ...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDVNvm1xQDc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obAsU...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v65nhfCVMd4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UK5L7MOFhB4

There's also a great special called California Dreamin': Songs of The Mamas and Papas, which I saw aired on PBS and I believe it is out on DVD. It's worth watching.

Vito · 01-03-2010, 10:25 AM

Did anyone else see Denny Doherty on the children's TV program "Theodore Tugboat"? The show was on PBS stations back in the 1990s, and Denny's character was named "The Harbor Master".

catlover79 · 01-03-2010, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vito

Did anyone else see Denny Doherty on the children's TV program "Theodore Tugboat"? The show was on PBS stations back in the 1990s, and Denny's character was named "The Harbor Master".

I've heard of it, but never saw it.

Vito · 01-03-2010, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catlover79

I've heard of it, but never saw it.

It's hard to forget Theodore, once you've seen him!

catlover79 · 01-03-2010, 08:02 PM

^ Kind of looks like Thomas - remember when Ringo did the narration for that? I guess Denny kind of followed in Ringo's footsteps!

JT · 01-03-2010, 09:38 PM

I love The Mamas and the Papas very much. I really got into their music last year a lot and came to appreciate it.

What I love is how well their voices blend together. All four of them had great singing voices, and no matter the combination, the harmonies were always perfect. Listen to a song like Twelve Thirty, and there are parts where the girls are harmonizing in the lower register while the guys are in the higher register, and it's a beautiful thing.

catlover79 · 01-15-2010, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JT

I love The Mamas and the Papas very much. I really got into their music last year a lot and came to appreciate it.

What I love is how well their voices blend together. All four of them had great singing voices, and no matter the combination, the harmonies were always perfect. Listen to a song like Twelve Thirty, and there are parts where the girls are harmonizing in the lower register while the guys are in the higher register, and it's a beautiful thing.

Twelve-Thirty is indeed a beautiful song. The harmonies are incredible.

Marvo301 · 01-15-2010, 07:22 PM

The genius of John Phillips was not only in writing the songs but also in arranging them to suit the voices in the group. It was those arrangements that lead to the tight harmonies that The Mama's and the Papa's are famous for. It's sad that genius all too often comes with a dark side as was the case with John. I've seen the PBS special that Monika mentioned (at least 3 times!) and if you are a fan of the Mama's and the Papa's and their music it is definitely worth seeing.

catlover79 · 01-15-2010, 10:11 PM

The PBS special is indeed available on DVD...if anyone's interested, here's more info:

http://www.amazon.com/Mamas-Papas-Ca.../dp/B0007QCGX6

...and here's a clip from the special on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2Hv-4GiczQ

12-29-2009, 04:02 PM	#1
Nighthawk76 Rachel Berry Forum Celebrity Join Date: Feb 28, 2003 Location: Illinois Posts: 23,254	The Mamas and the Papas One of the more interesting experiences that I've had of late is reading Mackenzie Phiilips's book High On Arrival twice and learning how truly sick in the head her father John Phillips was, but at the same time discovering that I really like the Mamas and the Papas. I've often heard John Phillips referred to as a muscial genius, but I could never see him on the same level as other 60's musical geniuses as John Lennon, Jimmy Page, Keith Richards, Jim Morrison and Eric Clapton. Though I always thought that "California Dreamin" was a a good song. I couple of weeks ago I picked up a used copy of The Mamas and the Papas Greatest Hits at Halfprice Books. At the time I was in the process of rereading MacKenzie's book and couldn't yet bring myself to listen to her father's music, knowing what kind of man he was. Finally in the middle of last week I listened to the CD and loved it! I've been playing it regulary since. I even used a Borders gift card yesterday to order a more extensive collection called The Mamas and Papas Gold. John Phllips was unquestionably a man with serious mental problems. He could have had a success solo career but was more interested in drinking and getting high, which sent him to an early grave. He also slept with his own daughter and got her pregnant. Still, the man was a gifted songwriter and bandleader. Its a shame that John didn't take more care of his God given gifts. I still think "California Dreamin" is their best song. I also really like "Monday, Monday", "Dream A Little Dream Of Me", Dedicated To The One I Love" among others.

12-29-2009, 06:25 PM	#2
Pitooey Member Forum Star Join Date: Feb 15, 2001 Location: Rocking in Transylvania. Posts: 15,042	It's a shame what he did. I grew up listening to this band but after MacKenzie said what happened to her I seem to hear the songs differently now.
	__________________ Pitooey... AKA JennyLee - I love the Monkees all over again! *SAY NO TO DRUGS* Jesus saves...

01-01-2010, 04:01 PM	#4
catlover79 God Bless Val Forum Addict Join Date: May 29, 2006 Location: Bewitched in Ohio Posts: 70,392	While John was the primary songwriter for the group, played guitar and sang harmony vocals, it's important to note that the two who did 95% of the lead vocals were Denny Doherty and Cass Elliot. Michelle Phillips did sing lead on songs like "Dedicated to the One I Love", "Got a Feeling" and "Step Out" (the latter was a co-lead with Denny). I can't think of any songs offhand that John sang the lead on. John and Michelle's daughter, Chynna, covered "Got a Feeling" in 2007. It was part of a compilation called "A Song For My Father", where musicians' kids sang their fathers' songs. Chynna's Wilson Phillips groupmates Carnie and Wendy Wilson did a cover of their father Brian's "Warmth of the Sun". Jen Chapin, Matthew and Gunnar Nelson, A.J. Croce, Devon Allman, Louise Goffen, Ben Taylor and Salvador Santana are some of the others on the CD. They all did a great job!!
	__________________ "Jesus loves you and He approves this message." "I'm alive. I'm feeling good. I'm trying to live every moment as much as I can." - Valerie Harper, March 2013

01-02-2010, 12:29 PM	#6
MrCleveland Drew Carey from Hell Forum Star Join Date: Nov 10, 2007 Location: The City of Cleveland, in The State of Cleveland, in The United States of Cleveland Posts: 14,236	John Phillips was a good friend of Scott McKenzie, as a matter of fact, he had him sing the song "San Fransisco". Phillips also co-wrote "Kokomo" for the Beach Boys...the worst Beach Boys song ever! Another fact...The Mamas and the Papas were to sing the song "Sundays Will Never Be The Same", but it was sent to another band that was very similar to the Mamas and the Papas...Spanky and Our Gang. Well...Elaine 'Spanky' McFarlane replaced 'Mama' Cass Elliot for awhile.
	__________________ Thank God for kids that love Obscure Things. Lee Hazlewood (1929-2007) You ARE Special to God! Rev. Ernest Angely (August 1921-May 2021)

01-03-2010, 09:38 PM	#12
JT Member Forum Veteran Join Date: Apr 29, 2001 Location: USA Posts: 7,223	I love The Mamas and the Papas very much. I really got into their music last year a lot and came to appreciate it. What I love is how well their voices blend together. All four of them had great singing voices, and no matter the combination, the harmonies were always perfect. Listen to a song like Twelve Thirty, and there are parts where the girls are harmonizing in the lower register while the guys are in the higher register, and it's a beautiful thing.
	__________________ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrEbJBFWIPk

12-29-2009, 06:36 PM	#3
MickeyMac Member Forum Star Join Date: Jun 18, 2008 Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan Posts: 19,008	John Philips we now know was a sick fck. In spite of that, I have always dug their music. They were a part of that great LA scene that gave us the Byrds, Turtles, Love, and the Buffalo Springfield. Their debut LP If You Can Believe Your Eyes and Ears* is worth hearing.

01-02-2010, 02:57 PM	#7
catlover79 God Bless Val Forum Addict Join Date: May 29, 2006 Location: Bewitched in Ohio Posts: 70,392	Yep, Denny Doherty was the lead male vocalist of M&P, while Cass was the lead female vocalist. Here are some videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJVOr...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7Krl...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xKyQ...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDVNvm1xQDc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obAsU...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v65nhfCVMd4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UK5L7MOFhB4 There's also a great special called California Dreamin': Songs of The Mamas and Papas, which I saw aired on PBS and I believe it is out on DVD. It's worth watching.

01-03-2010, 10:25 AM	#8
Vito Member Forum Regular Join Date: Dec 28, 2008 Location: California Posts: 635	Did anyone else see Denny Doherty on the children's TV program "Theodore Tugboat"? The show was on PBS stations back in the 1990s, and Denny's character was named "The Harbor Master".

01-03-2010, 08:02 PM	#11
catlover79 God Bless Val Forum Addict Join Date: May 29, 2006 Location: Bewitched in Ohio Posts: 70,392	^ Kind of looks like Thomas - remember when Ringo did the narration for that? I guess Denny kind of followed in Ringo's footsteps!

01-15-2010, 07:22 PM	#14
Marvo301 I'm NOT a Blockhead! Forum Celebrity Join Date: May 17, 2002 Location: The Great White North Posts: 21,461	The genius of John Phillips was not only in writing the songs but also in arranging them to suit the voices in the group. It was those arrangements that lead to the tight harmonies that The Mama's and the Papa's are famous for. It's sad that genius all too often comes with a dark side as was the case with John. I've seen the PBS special that Monika mentioned (at least 3 times!) and if you are a fan of the Mama's and the Papa's and their music it is definitely worth seeing.
	__________________ Only a life lived for others is worth living. Albert Einstein A life isn't worth living unless it has impact on other lives. Jackie Robinson Be always at war with your vices, at peace with your neighbors, and let each new year find you a better man. Benjamin Franklin

01-15-2010, 10:11 PM	#15
catlover79 God Bless Val Forum Addict Join Date: May 29, 2006 Location: Bewitched in Ohio Posts: 70,392	The PBS special is indeed available on DVD...if anyone's interested, here's more info: http://www.amazon.com/Mamas-Papas-Ca.../dp/B0007QCGX6 ...and here's a clip from the special on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2Hv-4GiczQ