Interesting posts about Kurt McFall and the SCA - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

justins5256 · 12-16-2009, 04:42 PM

Found this on the newsgroup alt.religion.wicca.moderated. It's from 1998 but is kind of interesting since they seem to be discussing Kurt McFall here...

The discussion was about minors being allowed to participate in these groups that practice and study Wicca and whether parental consent is needed....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragonmama

I was at a CoG meeting in San Francisco years ago, in which one of the
members complained of being hassled by parents of a young student, and
having cops on hir doorstep. There was much discussion, and it came dowm
to, "For your own protection, insist on written and notarized permission
from at least one parent or guardian before you teach a minor to ground,
even."

This was at the time a well-known SF teacher was nearly accused of murder,
because one of hir students went swimming on a beach at midnight, and was
found nastily murdered next morning. The assumption seemed to be, "This
person is a Witch, and gay. The kid was emerging as gay. Therefore, the
teacher made a pass at the kid, the kid said no, and so the teacher
ritually murdered hir." The police finally had to give up, as they could
not prove anything, but the kid's Fundy dad went to Unsolved Mysteries,
which then tried to involve not only the teacher but the SCA! More than
ten years later, the murder remains unsolved, but the teacher's life was
screwed up thoroughly.

The full post...

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.r...09ac72a4e7fef1

EDIT: Just stumbled across another one. Interesting claim here that the case was solved, but the claim allegedly came from that "Hilary of Serendip" SCA member who was interviewed on the segment. I wonder if there is any truth to this? I tend to think it's bogus as I have never heard of any arrests being made in McFall's death...

Quote:

Originally Posted by flanna

"That would be the one, all right. The lame thing is that the crime WAS
solved..a couple of punks having nothing to do with the SCA or the
alleged "semi-Druid" pagan group killed him when they decided they
wanted his armour...but nobody ever put that on tv. I heard it from
Hilary of Serendip some years back ...she refers to the show as
"unsolved fishwrap", as I have done ever since!"

Full post...

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.o...672b4af4cb3ae0

Hilary was pissed about her appearance on the show according to this poster...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Kay

So Hilary no longer twitches at the mear mention of "NBC"? About a year
later a Pennsic she went absolutly white when she heard that Garrik
Uttley wanted to do a short segment.

I remember hearing her speak about the show. They had a lot of time on
tape of her in her office talking and then used none of it. They also
were trying to get her to do the interview they did air in her (red)
arming cap. It looked more "demonic". Ambush yellow journalism at its
finest! No wonder the final result was not followed up. And no wonder
Hilary felt abused and angry.

Full post is further down in the above thread.

Mastermind · 12-16-2009, 05:24 PM

Good info, justin.

Am I correct that the SCA are wiccans and not technically satanists?

justins5256 · 12-16-2009, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mastermind

Good info, justin.

Am I correct that the SCA are wiccans and not technically satanists?

Yes, that was my impression. Actually, I think SCA and Gabriel Carrillo's Pagan group were/are two different entities entirely but neither are Satanic in nature. I found many, many more (redundant) posts on the McFall segment written by SCA and Pagan people who were peeved because they felt UM portrayed them as a Satanic cult.

I also found some posts indicating that Gabriel Carrillo aka "Caradoc" passed away on January 1, 2007.

For what it's worth, I never thought that either group was involved in Kurt McFall's death.

Apostapler · 12-17-2009, 02:59 AM

The SCA does not have a religious affiliation.

justins5256 · 12-17-2009, 11:38 AM

I found some interesting things about Gabriel Carrillo aka Caradoc. First, here is a wiki on the specific witchcraft he was involved with...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feri_Tradition

Here is a web page detailing Carrillo's specific group which he called "Bloodrose"

http://www.lilithslantern.com/branches.htm#BloodRose

An interesting passage here...

"Founded by Gabriel Carillo (Caradoc), an initiate of the Andersons. Primarily used a body of teaching materials initially co-written by Gabriel and Steven Hewell and further developed by Gabriel over the years. Probably the most prolific Feri branch and the first to teach Feri in a paid class setting. Gabriel experimented with large-scale teaching via the Internet and E-mail. Some members of the Feri community have questioned the ethics of his sexual behavior toward students."

Obviously, this proves nothing, but the Unsolved Mysteries segment alluded that Kurt may have stumbled upon something in the "cult" that put his life in danger. Could this have been it? Was Corodic having sexually inappropriate relationships with students?

burbqueen · 12-17-2009, 03:27 PM

SCA is not wiccan. There beliefs are not in align with any wiccans I know. It seems as to be Pagan, but I call in to question some of the "beliefs", but I think Kurt just met with foul play and thats it. Nothing to do with the occult.

Mastermind · 12-17-2009, 04:51 PM

Quote:

SCA is not wiccan. There beliefs are not in align with any wiccans I know. It seems as to be Pagan, but I call in to question some of the "beliefs", but I think Kurt just met with foul play and thats it. Nothing to do with the occult.

Well, Kurt's killer could have been someone he met in the cult.

justins5256 · 12-17-2009, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mastermind

Well, Kurt's killer could have been someone he met in the cult.

Do you think Kurt was murdered? I used to believe his death was accidental but now I'm on the fence.

crystaldawn · 12-17-2009, 05:28 PM

I didn't realize Caradoc had died. From what I understood on the Wikipedia link he died in 2007.

It seems like someone posted an article about Kurt's death quite a while ago that said he had mysterious injuries on his back. If that is true, it made me lean towards him being murdered.

Mastermind · 12-17-2009, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastermind
Well, Kurt's killer could have been someone he met in the cult.

Do you think Kurt was murdered? I used to believe his death was accidental but now I'm on the fence.

I 'm actually on the fence on this one, as well.

1. The only way he could have been murdered was if he was pushed off the cliff. I'm not sure how you would prove that against him jumping voluntarily.

2. The whole thing with the car bothers me.

justins5256 · 12-17-2009, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mastermind

I 'm actually on the fence on this one, as well.

1. The only way he could have been murdered was if he was pushed off the cliff. I'm not sure how you would prove that against him jumping voluntarily.

The segment proposed two accident scenarios. He drowned, or fell off the cliff while climbing amongst the rocks.

One odd thing about both: his body was found on the beach and he was only wearing jeans.

If he decided to go swimming and drowned, why keep the jeans on? It wasn't mentioned if he had a change of clothes in the car, so I guess he could have had dry clothes to change into, but I hate to assume a fact like this without confirmation from the segment or another source like a newspaper or such so basically we don't know.

He wasn't wearing shoes, so that doesn't fit with the rock climbing angle. I suppose he could have decided to walk out on to the edge of the cliff and climb around shoeless, but it does seem odd. The rocks could have been pointy and painful to step on. Also, if he did fall from the cliff, what happened to his shoes? Were they ever recovered?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mastermind

2. The whole thing with the car bothers me.

The first few times I saw the segment, it bothered me too. Kurt's father said that Kurt wasn't a drinker, and no trace of alcohol was found in his system according to the autopsy, yet we have these empty beer cans around and inside the car. One neat thing I noticed in the re-enactment was that the driver's side door of Kurt's car was hanging wide open when it was discovered. Is this accurate? Was the car really found like that? The segment also mentioned that Kurt left his car unlocked and the keys were left on the driver's seat. I wonder if Kurt could have stopped the car and decided to go for a quick stroll on the beach, so he left his car unlocked. Then some other teenagers or possibly a wino comes along and discovers the car unattended and burglarizes it and/or stashes their empty bottles in and around his car. They could have stolen his suit of armor (which was in a suitcase in the trunk) thinking it was something valuable. Just a guess. But, we can't really say for sure where those beer cans came from, can we? I don't think Kurt drank them, but a murderer would be silly to leave them there since they could have fingerprints, saliva or other potentially damning evidence on them.

alfiechat · 12-17-2009, 09:05 PM

As someone who is in the SCA, but wasn't back then when the ep came out, this has always intrigued me. Everyone I know that I spoke to about this said that Sir Hilary did look a bit on the demonic side. sigh. that was my first impression, anyway.. I had no idea that the group leader, Gabriel, had died several years ago. I always felt sorry for Kurt's dad.

justins5256 · 12-17-2009, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfiechat

I always felt sorry for Kurt's dad.

Ditto. That scene where he is visiting Kurt's grave always gets to me. Then Stack mentions that Kurt's father is the only person investigating Kurt's death. I wonder if Kurt's father was a single parent. There was no mention of a mother that I recall.

UMfan77 · 12-18-2009, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justins5256

...we have these empty beer cans around and inside the car. ...But, we can't really say for sure where those beer cans came from, can we? I don't think Kurt drank them, but a murderer would be silly to leave them there since they could have fingerprints, saliva or other potentially damning evidence on them.

I know it didn't say in the segment, but I wonder if the police processed those beer cans for fingerprints. That would've been an obvoius thing to do because everyone usually leaves fingerprints on cups, a glass or cans.

hostedbyrobertstack · 12-19-2009, 11:18 AM

Those posts are pretty interesting. I am very sure that some people out there, probably within this organization perhaps, that know what actually happened to Kurt. It seems as though some of them already do know what happened. Also, I could see where Gabriel Carillo was actually involved in this...his statement to where he said why would he murder someone who's father knows he was staying with him. It makes you think, yeah, you're right, let's try to find another subject. However, it could be a clever way to get suspicion off of him.

I hope this is solved someday and someday soon.

12-17-2009, 03:27 PM	#6
burbqueen Master of My Domain Frequent Poster Join Date: Dec 11, 2009 Location: texas Posts: 160	SCA is not wiccan. There beliefs are not in align with any wiccans I know. It seems as to be Pagan, but I call in to question some of the "beliefs", but I think Kurt just met with foul play and thats it. Nothing to do with the occult.
	__________________ Baby Huba due 06/20/10!!!!

12-16-2009, 05:24 PM	#2
Mastermind Member Senior Member Join Date: Jul 16, 2008 Posts: 1,843	Good info, justin. Am I correct that the SCA are wiccans and not technically satanists?

12-17-2009, 02:59 AM	#4
Apostapler Member Forum Regular Join Date: Mar 06, 2009 Location: Indiana Posts: 872	The SCA does not have a religious affiliation.

12-17-2009, 11:38 AM	#5
justins5256 Member Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 08, 2002 Posts: 3,866	I found some interesting things about Gabriel Carrillo aka Caradoc. First, here is a wiki on the specific witchcraft he was involved with... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feri_Tradition Here is a web page detailing Carrillo's specific group which he called "Bloodrose" http://www.lilithslantern.com/branches.htm#BloodRose An interesting passage here... "Founded by Gabriel Carillo (Caradoc), an initiate of the Andersons. Primarily used a body of teaching materials initially co-written by Gabriel and Steven Hewell and further developed by Gabriel over the years. Probably the most prolific Feri branch and the first to teach Feri in a paid class setting. Gabriel experimented with large-scale teaching via the Internet and E-mail. Some members of the Feri community have questioned the ethics of his sexual behavior toward students." Obviously, this proves nothing, but the Unsolved Mysteries segment alluded that Kurt may have stumbled upon something in the "cult" that put his life in danger. Could this have been it? Was Corodic having sexually inappropriate relationships with students?

12-17-2009, 05:28 PM	#9
crystaldawn Member Forum 4000 Club Member Join Date: Dec 17, 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,261	I didn't realize Caradoc had died. From what I understood on the Wikipedia link he died in 2007. It seems like someone posted an article about Kurt's death quite a while ago that said he had mysterious injuries on his back. If that is true, it made me lean towards him being murdered.

12-17-2009, 09:05 PM	#12
alfiechat Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Dec 23, 2007 Location: pittsburgh,PA Posts: 198	As someone who is in the SCA, but wasn't back then when the ep came out, this has always intrigued me. Everyone I know that I spoke to about this said that Sir Hilary did look a bit on the demonic side. sigh. that was my first impression, anyway.. I had no idea that the group leader, Gabriel, had died several years ago. I always felt sorry for Kurt's dad.

12-19-2009, 11:18 AM	#15
hostedbyrobertstack Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Feb 23, 2007 Location: OH Posts: 436	Those posts are pretty interesting. I am very sure that some people out there, probably within this organization perhaps, that know what actually happened to Kurt. It seems as though some of them already do know what happened. Also, I could see where Gabriel Carillo was actually involved in this...his statement to where he said why would he murder someone who's father knows he was staying with him. It makes you think, yeah, you're right, let's try to find another subject. However, it could be a clever way to get suspicion off of him. I hope this is solved someday and someday soon.