eBay Buyer Refuses to Pay, Says "The Lord Forgives Me and so Should You" - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Zoneboy · 08-09-2009, 04:29 AM

Most of you are aware that I sell on eBay and have been doing so for almost 8 years. You may also have read my topic about the recent dvd sale at Big Lots so it should come as no surprise that my primary reason for buying these was to unload them on eBay.

I listed a complete set of The Flintstones for $99.00 or best offer and with free shipping. This guy bought it at the original price on 7/29 and the next day sent me an e-mail saying his kids did it and they didn't have any money. I wrote back and informed him that he was still legally obligated to purchase the dvd's regardless of whether his kids did it or not. I had serious doubts that any kids were involved because it's one of the oldest and lamest excuses among buyers that refuse to pay.

I then read his feedback profile which is currently 100% positive and I saw that the day after buying my dvd's, He found them at cheaper price from another seller. The $99.00 I was asking for was negotiable but he clicked the buy it now button instead of submitting an offer.

I wrote back to let him know that I was aware of his other purchase and even though I felt that he should pay for mine, I offered to release him from his obligation if he would cover my listing and final value fees which totaled almost $11.00. This is when I was told that the Lord forgives him and so should I and he made no offer to cover my fees.

If the amount were much higher, I would take him to small claims court and most likely would win the case since like I said earlier he is legally obligated to honor the purchase. I have 2 other options, One is to file a non-paying bidder report and have my final value fee credited to my account or to just forget the matter and move on.

If I file the report, He gets a strike on his record and I get my $9.95 back but with this choice he can retaliate by leaving me negative feedback. My rating is currently 100% positive and I'd like to keep it that way. For those that might not already know this, eBay changed the rules regarding feedback about a year or so ago.

The new rules state that the buyer can no longer be given negative or neutral feedback. They can only receive positive or none at all. It doesn't matter if they refuse to pay but the seller is subject to receiving negative or neutral feedback no matter how hard he tries to please the buyer. So now I'm basically backed into a corner, Should I file the report and risk my rating or should I just move on? The only thing I really stand to lose is the $9.95 final value fee because I sold another set of the dvd's along with a few others for $115.00 which was way more than I gave for them. From where I'm sitting, It looks like a classic case of damned if you do and damned if you don't.

InspectorExstead · 08-09-2009, 05:14 AM

Dayum, that sucks. That's so shady too. Hm, like you said...it seems like a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't. I didn't realize Ebay had changed the rules for feedback-I haven't sold anything on Ebay for a long time. If you do report him and he leaves you negative feedback, can you still comment on it stating that he refused to pay? If you do report him and he does leave you negative feedback, I hope you can comment on it. I've bought items from sellers that have negative feedback with comments from the seller saying that person refused to pay or never contacted them, etc. It's great that you have 100% feedback-I usually don't hesitate to buy from a seller who has one or two negative feedbacks, depending on what it says.

Schmoopie · 08-09-2009, 05:24 AM

What a jackass that guy is! He's probably playing the "religion card" to make you feel sorry for him. If you are only out $9.95 and don't want to risk tarnishing your rating, I would just let it go. Small claims court would be a lot more money than it's worth.

TJL · 08-09-2009, 06:20 AM

That really stinks that only a seller can recieve negative feedback. I'm sure there are a lot of people who are going to take advantage of that.

Sounds like this person got caught in a lie and refuses to own up to it. I'm so pleased that the Lord doesn't seem to mind that you were inconvienienced.

Just curious, can you contact anyone at ebay and ask them for thier opinion on this matter? Maybe they can offer some advice on how you should proceed.

ABlairican Pie · 08-09-2009, 11:01 AM

"The Lord forgives me, and so should you". What a pile of sanctimonious, lying crap. The guy is a scam artist who whitewashes it with a sugary glaze
of religious rhetoric. Make him pay up.

A little hard to forgive someone who's cheated nearly $100 of merchandise from right in front of you. I don't think the Lord just excuses such chicanery.

qwerty · 08-09-2009, 11:59 AM

I'd probably just let it go. This may turn off some buyers but you may want to consider making people pay instantly so this can't happen. The only time it may be a real inconvenience is if you offer combined shipping.

OH Nuts! · 08-09-2009, 01:18 PM

Sorry this happened to you Charles, it really does suck. I think asking people whose opinion you respect will help you come to a decision you can live with. Another reason I'm really leary (and old-fashioned) abt doing bus. on the Internet.

Zoneboy · 08-09-2009, 01:31 PM

eBay's feedback system has never been perfect and probably never will. Aside from the buyer receiving only positive feedback, eBay now only displays ratings for the past year when previously it was for the entire time a person had been a member.

Although my rating is currently displayed as 100% positive, This only covers everything in the past year and not the nearly 8 years I've been a member. You now have to search a member's feedback in order to find any possible negatives prior to the current year. This to me isn't fair nor honest because most members who see that I have 100% positive are not going to bother looking any further and if they did, They would see that I have 12 negatives. Some were deserved and some were in retaliation for negative remarks I gave to deadbeat buyers.

eBay also no longer allows sellers to accept checks or money orders as payment. You have to accept credit or debit cards, Paypal or credit and debit cards through Paypal. I don't think eBay should have the right to dictate what forms of payment a seller can accept. This to me is no different than selling a car through your local newspaper's classified section and the editor of the paper telling you that you cannot accept a personal check.

eBay's reasoning for this is to minimize the risk of fraud but I think their motives go way beyond that. They're a greedy company and since they own Paypal, They have to be getting a percentage of the fees that a seller has to pay if a buyer uses Paypal. If a seller accepts a check or money order, eBay loses out on fees so the fraud excuse doesn't hold water and besides, Fraud can happen just as easily with Paypal or credit cards. In fact, I have never been a victim of fraud when someone paid with a check or money order but I almost was once when a person tried to use a debit card to fund a purchase.

MickeyMac · 08-09-2009, 03:07 PM

I smell a rat. This guy is trying to pull a fast one to me.

dawsongirl · 08-09-2009, 08:47 PM

I never understood the reason ebay changed their feedback. It makes it easy for buyers to do whatever they want. So unfair.

If it were me, I'd probably still file. You can still respond to whatever feedback he leaves, right?

Zoneboy · 08-09-2009, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawsongirl

You can still respond to whatever feedback he leaves, right?

Yes and I can probably have the comment removed if I can prove that it was done in retaliation. Getting bad feedback removed is not an easy task but it's not impossible either.

dawsongirl · 08-09-2009, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoneboy

eBay's feedback system has never been perfect and probably never will. Aside from the buyer receiving only positive feedback, eBay now only displays ratings for the past year when previously it was for the entire time a person had been a member.

Although my rating is currently displayed as 100% positive, This only covers everything in the past year and not the nearly 8 years I've been a member. You now have to search a member's feedback in order to find any possible negatives prior to the current year. This to me isn't fair nor honest because most members who see that I have 100% positive are not going to bother looking any further and if they did, They would see that I have 12 negatives. Some were deserved and some were in retaliation for negative remarks I gave to deadbeat buyers.

eBay also no longer allows sellers to accept checks or money orders as payment. You have to accept credit or debit cards, Paypal or credit and debit cards through Paypal. I don't think eBay should have the right to dictate what forms of payment a seller can accept. This to me is no different than selling a car through your local newspaper's classified section and the editor of the paper telling you that you cannot accept a personal check.

eBay's reasoning for this is to minimize the risk of fraud but I think their motives go way beyond that. They're a greedy company and since they own Paypal, They have to be getting a percentage of the fees that a seller has to pay if a buyer uses Paypal. If a seller accepts a check or money order, eBay loses out on fees so the fraud excuse doesn't hold water and besides, Fraud can happen just as easily with Paypal or credit cards. In fact, I have never been a victim of fraud when someone paid with a check or money order but I almost was once when a person tried to use a debit card to fund a purchase.

Yeah, I agree...ebay just wants their fees, especially since Paypal takes what seems like a huge percentage. I've had people ask me in emails if I'd accept MOs. I'm like, to avoid Paypal fees, yes!

Zoneboy · 08-09-2009, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawsongirl

I've had people ask me in emails if I'd accept MOs. I'm like, to avoid Paypal fees, yes!

I've had that happen also, Some buyers don't want to open a Paypal account for various reasons so if they ask about a check or money order, I tell them yes. I see no reason why I can no longer mention that I accept these forms of payment in my descriptions but if I do, I'm subject to a warning or temporary/permanent suspension.

dawsongirl · 08-09-2009, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoneboy

I've had that happen also, Some buyers don't want to open a Paypal account for various reasons so if they ask about a check or money order, I tell them yes. I see no reason why I can no longer mention that I accept these forms of payment in my descriptions but if I do, I'm subject to a warning or temporary/permanent suspension.

That happened to me once too. I didn't even know I couldn't say that.

Liza · 08-09-2009, 09:30 PM

Okay, first a word on payment forms: as a banker, let me tell you I would never, ever, EVER accept a check or money order from anyone - I don't care if the Pope was my customer. There's so much check and money order fraud out there nowadays to make your head spin. And fake checks/money orders look really good - sometimes they're so good it can take the bank months, even years to detect the counterfeit. I'm not kidding. Sometimes these are drawn off of real accounts, and the only way the bank would know it's a fake is if/when the account holder tells them so. That should make you nervous about accepting paper payment forms.

Anyways, back to the main topic of the thread - I agree, you're kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. I may be the minority voice here, but I'd report them. With a response like that, it makes me think that they've done this before, and others have let them off the hook for the same reason. Don't fall for it. I know you're afraid of losing your 100% feedback, but as you yourself said, it's not truly 100% anyways. As a buyer, I make no distinction between a seller who has 100% positive feedback and one who has 99.9% positive feedback. Everyone can have a rotten transaction. Also, if they do post a stupid feedback, you can always apply to ebay and ask them to remove it. I had a seller who waited 3 months before he contacted me for payment - when I refused (by that time I had made other arrangements) he gave me negative feedback. I contacted ebay and they removed it. So don't be afraid of that. They can be very reasonable. Don't let this guy get away with it. He's just going to do it again to somebody else otherwise.

08-09-2009, 04:29 AM	#1
Zoneboy RIP, I'LL NEVER FORGET YOU :( Moderator Forum Superstar Join Date: Jul 13, 2003 Location: AT HOME WISHING ALL THIS WAS JUST A DREAM AND THAT I'LL WAKE UP FROM THIS NIGHTMARE. Posts: 34,540	eBay Buyer Refuses to Pay, Says "The Lord Forgives Me and so Should You" Most of you are aware that I sell on eBay and have been doing so for almost 8 years. You may also have read my topic about the recent dvd sale at Big Lots so it should come as no surprise that my primary reason for buying these was to unload them on eBay. I listed a complete set of The Flintstones for $99.00 or best offer and with free shipping. This guy bought it at the original price on 7/29 and the next day sent me an e-mail saying his kids did it and they didn't have any money. I wrote back and informed him that he was still legally obligated to purchase the dvd's regardless of whether his kids did it or not. I had serious doubts that any kids were involved because it's one of the oldest and lamest excuses among buyers that refuse to pay. I then read his feedback profile which is currently 100% positive and I saw that the day after buying my dvd's, He found them at cheaper price from another seller. The $99.00 I was asking for was negotiable but he clicked the buy it now button instead of submitting an offer. I wrote back to let him know that I was aware of his other purchase and even though I felt that he should pay for mine, I offered to release him from his obligation if he would cover my listing and final value fees which totaled almost $11.00. This is when I was told that the Lord forgives him and so should I and he made no offer to cover my fees. If the amount were much higher, I would take him to small claims court and most likely would win the case since like I said earlier he is legally obligated to honor the purchase. I have 2 other options, One is to file a non-paying bidder report and have my final value fee credited to my account or to just forget the matter and move on. If I file the report, He gets a strike on his record and I get my $9.95 back but with this choice he can retaliate by leaving me negative feedback. My rating is currently 100% positive and I'd like to keep it that way. For those that might not already know this, eBay changed the rules regarding feedback about a year or so ago. The new rules state that the buyer can no longer be given negative or neutral feedback. They can only receive positive or none at all. It doesn't matter if they refuse to pay but the seller is subject to receiving negative or neutral feedback no matter how hard he tries to please the buyer. So now I'm basically backed into a corner, Should I file the report and risk my rating or should I just move on? The only thing I really stand to lose is the $9.95 final value fee because I sold another set of the dvd's along with a few others for $115.00 which was way more than I gave for them. From where I'm sitting, It looks like a classic case of damned if you do and damned if you don't.
	__________________ 'Twas The Night Before Christmas And All Through The Full House Not A Creature Was Stirring, Not Even Mighty Mouse. All My Children We're Nestled All Snug In Their Beds While Visions Of Sugarbakers Danced In Their Heads.

08-09-2009, 05:14 AM	#2
InspectorExstead Member Forum Star Join Date: Oct 29, 2001 Location: The Golden State Posts: 12,902	Dayum, that sucks. That's so shady too. Hm, like you said...it seems like a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't. I didn't realize Ebay had changed the rules for feedback-I haven't sold anything on Ebay for a long time. If you do report him and he leaves you negative feedback, can you still comment on it stating that he refused to pay? If you do report him and he does leave you negative feedback, I hope you can comment on it. I've bought items from sellers that have negative feedback with comments from the seller saying that person refused to pay or never contacted them, etc. It's great that you have 100% feedback-I usually don't hesitate to buy from a seller who has one or two negative feedbacks, depending on what it says.
	__________________ They killed my sister because she asked: "Where is my vote?" http://sosiran.com/ http://tapeshhd.com/index.php

08-09-2009, 05:24 AM	#3
Schmoopie Keep Calm and Love Snoopy Forum Star Join Date: Jul 13, 2008 Location: Lynnwood, Washington Posts: 15,697	What a jackass that guy is! He's probably playing the "religion card" to make you feel sorry for him. If you are only out $9.95 and don't want to risk tarnishing your rating, I would just let it go. Small claims court would be a lot more money than it's worth.
	__________________ In memory of my wonderful husband. I love and miss you more than words can say, but I will always and forever keep you in my heart. September 23, 1961-January 14, 2019

08-09-2009, 06:20 AM	#4
TJL Suburbanite Extrordinaire Forum Star Join Date: Dec 29, 2001 Location: New Jersey - the cradle of civilization Posts: 16,588	That really stinks that only a seller can recieve negative feedback. I'm sure there are a lot of people who are going to take advantage of that. Sounds like this person got caught in a lie and refuses to own up to it. I'm so pleased that the Lord doesn't seem to mind that you were inconvienienced. Just curious, can you contact anyone at ebay and ask them for thier opinion on this matter? Maybe they can offer some advice on how you should proceed.
	__________________ "I think I'll stroll up to the front to see how the shooting's going..." - Capt. Benjamin Franklin "Hawkeye" Pierce Read my blogs! http://centralparkamisguide.com/ http://dvdcriticscorner.com Visit me on Facebook!http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=641138880 Hey, I do the tweet thing too! http://twitter.com/TomLevier My shop of handmade items! http://www.etsy.com/shop/ColdGarageCreations

08-09-2009, 11:01 AM	#5
ABlairican Pie Member Forum Superstar Join Date: Dec 12, 2001 Location: Living where cats reign more Supreme than a pizza. Posts: 31,619	"The Lord forgives me, and so should you". What a pile of sanctimonious, lying crap. The guy is a scam artist who whitewashes it with a sugary glaze of religious rhetoric. Make him pay up. A little hard to forgive someone who's cheated nearly $100 of merchandise from right in front of you. I don't think the Lord just excuses such chicanery.
	__________________ Release the kitties. --Nathan Explosion

08-09-2009, 11:59 AM	#6
qwerty Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Feb 20, 2004 Posts: 226	I'd probably just let it go. This may turn off some buyers but you may want to consider making people pay instantly so this can't happen. The only time it may be a real inconvenience is if you offer combined shipping.

08-09-2009, 01:18 PM	#7
OH Nuts! Member Forum King Join Date: Feb 15, 2005 Posts: 133,383	Sorry this happened to you Charles, it really does suck. I think asking people whose opinion you respect will help you come to a decision you can live with. Another reason I'm really leary (and old-fashioned) abt doing bus. on the Internet.

08-09-2009, 01:31 PM	#8
Zoneboy RIP, I'LL NEVER FORGET YOU :( Moderator Forum Superstar Join Date: Jul 13, 2003 Location: AT HOME WISHING ALL THIS WAS JUST A DREAM AND THAT I'LL WAKE UP FROM THIS NIGHTMARE. Posts: 34,540	eBay's feedback system has never been perfect and probably never will. Aside from the buyer receiving only positive feedback, eBay now only displays ratings for the past year when previously it was for the entire time a person had been a member. Although my rating is currently displayed as 100% positive, This only covers everything in the past year and not the nearly 8 years I've been a member. You now have to search a member's feedback in order to find any possible negatives prior to the current year. This to me isn't fair nor honest because most members who see that I have 100% positive are not going to bother looking any further and if they did, They would see that I have 12 negatives. Some were deserved and some were in retaliation for negative remarks I gave to deadbeat buyers. eBay also no longer allows sellers to accept checks or money orders as payment. You have to accept credit or debit cards, Paypal or credit and debit cards through Paypal. I don't think eBay should have the right to dictate what forms of payment a seller can accept. This to me is no different than selling a car through your local newspaper's classified section and the editor of the paper telling you that you cannot accept a personal check. eBay's reasoning for this is to minimize the risk of fraud but I think their motives go way beyond that. They're a greedy company and since they own Paypal, They have to be getting a percentage of the fees that a seller has to pay if a buyer uses Paypal. If a seller accepts a check or money order, eBay loses out on fees so the fraud excuse doesn't hold water and besides, Fraud can happen just as easily with Paypal or credit cards. In fact, I have never been a victim of fraud when someone paid with a check or money order but I almost was once when a person tried to use a debit card to fund a purchase.

08-09-2009, 03:07 PM	#9
MickeyMac Member Forum Star Join Date: Jun 18, 2008 Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan Posts: 19,008	I smell a rat. This guy is trying to pull a fast one to me.

08-09-2009, 08:47 PM	#10
dawsongirl Member Forum Icon Join Date: Jan 04, 2001 Posts: 53,140	I never understood the reason ebay changed their feedback. It makes it easy for buyers to do whatever they want. So unfair. If it were me, I'd probably still file. You can still respond to whatever feedback he leaves, right?

08-09-2009, 09:30 PM	#15
Liza BestYearsofOurLives Forum Veteran Join Date: Apr 24, 2001 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 6,537	Okay, first a word on payment forms: as a banker, let me tell you I would never, ever, EVER accept a check or money order from anyone - I don't care if the Pope was my customer. There's so much check and money order fraud out there nowadays to make your head spin. And fake checks/money orders look really good - sometimes they're so good it can take the bank months, even years to detect the counterfeit. I'm not kidding. Sometimes these are drawn off of real accounts, and the only way the bank would know it's a fake is if/when the account holder tells them so. That should make you nervous about accepting paper payment forms. Anyways, back to the main topic of the thread - I agree, you're kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. I may be the minority voice here, but I'd report them. With a response like that, it makes me think that they've done this before, and others have let them off the hook for the same reason. Don't fall for it. I know you're afraid of losing your 100% feedback, but as you yourself said, it's not truly 100% anyways. As a buyer, I make no distinction between a seller who has 100% positive feedback and one who has 99.9% positive feedback. Everyone can have a rotten transaction. Also, if they do post a stupid feedback, you can always apply to ebay and ask them to remove it. I had a seller who waited 3 months before he contacted me for payment - when I refused (by that time I had made other arrangements) he gave me negative feedback. I contacted ebay and they removed it. So don't be afraid of that. They can be very reasonable. Don't let this guy get away with it. He's just going to do it again to somebody else otherwise.