Susan Atkins Up for Parole (again)

[Liza]

CNN.com:

LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- The woman who stabbed pregnant actress Sharon Tate to death will be considered for parole from prison a month after the 40th anniversary of the killings that cast a shadow of fear over southern California.

Susan Atkins, 61, has been denied parole in 17 previous hearings, but the former "Manson Family" member now is terminally ill with brain cancer and is paralyzed.

Charles Manson used his hypnotic powers to direct Atkins and other "family" members to kill seven people, including the pregnant Tate, in a two-night rampage that terrorized the city of Los Angeles, California, in August 1969.

Atkins -- who was initially sentenced to death along with Manson and three others -- will have her 18th parole hearing on September 2, according to a spokesman with the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation.

In July of last year, Atkins -- California's longest-serving female inmate -- was denied a compassionate release in a unanimous decision by the California Board of Parole Hearings.

She has repeatedly been described as a model prisoner who has accepted responsibility for her role in the slayings, and she now shuns Manson.

By her own admission, Atkins held Tate down as she pleaded for mercy and stabbed the pregnant woman 16 times. In a 1993 parole board hearing, Atkins said Tate "asked me to let her baby live. ... I told her I didn't have any mercy on her."

After stabbing Tate to death, according to historical accounts of the murders, Atkins scrawled the word "pig" in blood on the door of the home Tate shared with her husband, director Roman Polanski. Polanski was not home at the time, but three of Tate's house guests were also slain by the killers, as was a teenager who was visiting the home's caretaker in his nearby cottage.

A Web site maintained by her husband and attorney, James Whitehouse, says Atkins is now paralyzed over 85 percent of her body and cannot sit up in bed or even be moved into a wheelchair.

However, despite her declining condition and her impressive prison record, the site says, "there is still a very real chance the Parole Board will nonetheless insist her release would be a danger to society."

Atkins' compassionate release was opposed by Tate's sister, Debra, Los Angeles County prosecutors and California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, among others. However, the former prosecutor who won her conviction, Vincent Bugliosi, said he supports Atkins' request for release.

"She has paid substantially, though not completely, for her horrendous crimes," Bugliosi told the Los Angeles Times last year. "Paying completely would mean imposing the death penalty."

Bugliosi is the author of several books on the Manson case, including "Helter Skelter."

Debra Tate told CNN in an e-mail in March that she does not believe any Manson family member convicted of murder should ever be set free, saying the slayings were "so vicious, so inhumane, so depraved, that there is no turning back."

"The 'Manson Family' murderers are sociopaths, and from that, they can never be rehabilitated," Debra Tate said. "They should all stay right where they are -- in prison -- until they die. There will never be true justice for my sister Sharon and the other victims of the 'Manson Family.' Keeping the murderers in prison is the least we, as a society who values justice, can do."

In a manuscript posted on her Web site, Atkins, who was known within the Manson family as Sadie Mae Glutz, wrote that "this is the past I have to live with, and I have to live with it every day."

"Unlike the reader, or the people who seem to think Charles Manson was cool, I can't think about it for an hour or so and then go on with my life. Just like the families and friends of the victims, this is with me every day. I have to wake up every day with this and no matter what I do for the rest of my life and no matter how much I give back to the community I will never be able to replace what my crime took away. And that's not 'neat,' and that's not 'cool.'"

Atkins was housed in the California Institution for Women at Frontera until May 2008, when her declining health caused her to be moved to Central California Women's Facility at Chowchilla.

Manson and those convicted along with him in the murders -- Atkins, Patricia Krenwinkel, Leslie Van Houten and Charles "Tex" Watson -- have been in California prisons for more than three decades.

All were initially sentenced to death, only to have their sentences commuted to life in prison when the Supreme Court struck down death penalty laws in 1972, establishing a four-year moratorium on executions. Van Houten was released for six months after her conviction was overturned, but was reconvicted.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/06/05/...ing/index.html

[Retro4Life]

You know, I kind of hate to dip my foot in this particular pond, but I find myself really torn on this issue. It's really a textbook example of a true moral dilemma where I can see very compelling arguments on both sides.

On the one hand, what this woman and her "friends" did was about as close to absolute evil as you can imagine. She murdered five innocent people (six if you count Tate's baby, and I do) for no reason other than some sociopathic guru told her to. Moreover, the glee and heartlessness with which she committed the act is enough to demand the harshest possible punishment. If a vigilante had come upon the murder scene shortly after the deed, I wouldn't have batted an eye if they had killed every one of these people in revenge.

But forty years later, the woman is still here. It's a lifetime from her deeds. I don't know her or her progress but its quite possible the Susan Atkins of 2009 bears no relation whatsoever to the woman of 1969. With terminal brain cancer and almost total paralysis, she seems more like a husk than a human being, and the only conceivable reason to keep her in jail now is pure vengeance (again, not an unheard of motive). If you aren't going to let out someone who's been a model prisoner for forty years, who is near death, what exactly is the purpose of parole?

I totally understand the feelings of the Tate family and I agree with them to a large extent. As I say, I don't know how to come down on this one. It's a moral quandry. Whatever happens, perhaps the case can serve as a catalyst for discussion about crime and punishment, rehabiliatation, mercy and justice.

The sad thing is that none of that will ever bring back Sharon Tate, her child and her friends, and nothing can erase what Atkins and her cohorts did.

[Liza]

That was beautifully said. I'm kind of on the fence on this one too, although I lean towards letting the guilty rot. I've read a ton about this event, and Atkins really seemed to be one of the worst of the Family (excluding Charlie of course). I won't go into details, but she was a monster. She also kept changing her story. She said she didn't do it, she did, she helped, she just watched... and up until 5-6 years ago she was still altering her story. Sharon's mother and older sister fought for 40 years to keep Atkins locked up - they're both gone now, and Debra's still fighting. I have to respect that.

On the other hand, I don't buy that she is any sort of threat to society. She has been a model prisoner and can't even move without help. Bugliosi supports her parole, because right now, it's the people of California that are paying for her medical bills - which add up to the millions by now. If she's let go, it'll be up to her husband (she married him while in jail) to support her, and she'll cease burdening the people of California, in one way at least.

[MickeyMac]

I sure dont condone what she did, but since she is terminal and is pretty much unable to do anything, I say let her out. That said I can certainly understand the veiwpoints of those who think she should never be released.


Interesting only one member of the Manson family has been released and that is Steve Grogan a.k.a. Clem. He participated in the murder of Spann ranch hand Don Shea, and was convicted for it. In 1985 Grogan was let out on parole.

[Retro4Life]

Originally Posted by Liza

That was beautifully said. I'm kind of on the fence on this one too, although I lean towards letting the guilty rot. I've read a ton about this event, and Atkins really seemed to be one of the worst of the Family (excluding Charlie of course). I won't go into details, but she was a monster. She also kept changing her story. She said she didn't do it, she did, she helped, she just watched... and up until 5-6 years ago she was still altering her story. Sharon's mother and older sister fought for 40 years to keep Atkins locked up - they're both gone now, and Debra's still fighting. I have to respect that.

On the other hand, I don't buy that she is any sort of threat to society. She has been a model prisoner and can't even move without help. Bugliosi supports her parole, because right now, it's the people of California that are paying for her medical bills - which add up to the millions by now. If she's let go, it'll be up to her husband (she married him while in jail) to support her, and she'll cease burdening the people of California, in one way at least.

Thank you for your kind words.

I think it's good to revisit these types of cases to remind us all that even though there are TRULY good and evil acts, the great majority of situations we all face each day have a lot more nuance to them, and demand complex thinking.

[Liza]

Originally Posted by MickeyMac

Interesting only one member of the Manson family has been released and that is Steve Grogan a.k.a. Clem. He participated in the murder of Spann ranch hand Don Shea, and was convicted for it. In 1985 Grogan was let out on parole.

That is interesting. For awhile it looked as though Tex Watson was going to get out - he had relatives of the LaBiancas supporting his release. The parole board still denied it. He is now a priest (at the jail) and has not attended his last few parole hearings.

Another thing about Atkins I'd forgotten - she was also at the Hinman murder. So was Mary Brunner (who is free today).

[catlover79]

Originally Posted by Liza

That was beautifully said. I'm kind of on the fence on this one too, although I lean towards letting the guilty rot. I've read a ton about this event, and Atkins really seemed to be one of the worst of the Family (excluding Charlie of course). I won't go into details, but she was a monster. She also kept changing her story. She said she didn't do it, she did, she helped, she just watched... and up until 5-6 years ago she was still altering her story. Sharon's mother and older sister fought for 40 years to keep Atkins locked up - they're both gone now, and Debra's still fighting. I have to respect that.

On the other hand, I don't buy that she is any sort of threat to society. She has been a model prisoner and can't even move without help. Bugliosi supports her parole, because right now, it's the people of California that are paying for her medical bills - which add up to the millions by now. If she's let go, it'll be up to her husband (she married him while in jail) to support her, and she'll cease burdening the people of California, in one way at least.

You both have made compelling points. I don't buy her being a threat now, either, in her condition. But then again, there's not black and white here - it's very gray. It'll be interesting to see where this goes.

[OH Nuts!]

Sigh, I'm on the fence too. My gut says let her rot in jail. But then, someone made the compelling point that keeping Susan Atkins in jail is costing the taxpayers a lot of $, and she is pretty much terminal now. So, I could live with either decision at this point. But the rest of that rotten 'family" should stay in jail forever (longer if possible)

[Liza]

Originally Posted by catlover79

You both have made compelling points. I don't buy her being a threat now, either, in her condition. But then again, there's not black and white here - it's very gray. It'll be interesting to see where this goes.

My guess is she won't be let out. Her real chance was the bid for compassionate release last year, when the doctors gave her only a few months (she's already outlived that). If they wouldn't let her out to die at home, they won't let her out now.

[JT]

Originally Posted by catlover79

You both have made compelling points. I don't buy her being a threat now, either, in her condition. But then again, there's not black and white here - it's very gray. It'll be interesting to see where this goes.

ITA with it not being a black or white issue. It's extremely grey, and honestly, I don't think that there is ever a situation that is truly just black or white. Seeing it as a black or white issue is, IMO, taking the easy way out, and is a major injustice to the general public.

[LuLu Rogers]

Susan was definitely the worst of the lot, except for Manson himself. She told Sharon Tate as she was stabbing her that she had no sympathy for her or her unborn child. I blame Manson's influence for a lot of what Pat and Leslie did, but Susan was extremely brutal and didn't seem all that remorseful afterward. I realize that she's very sick, but she was given life in prison and she should have to serve her sentence no matter what.

[Liza]

Originally Posted by LuLu Rogers

Susan was definitely the worst of the lot, except for Manson himself. She told Sharon Tate as she was stabbing her that she had no sympathy for her or her unborn child. I blame Manson's influence for a lot of what Pat and Leslie did, but Susan was extremely brutal and didn't seem all that remorseful afterward. I realize that she's very sick, but she was given life in prison and she should have to serve her sentence no matter what.

Technically speaking, she was given the death penalty. It got overturned, when the death penalty was abolished in California, and she and the rest of the Family escaped the gas chamber.

[LuLu Rogers]

Originally Posted by Liza

Technically speaking, she was given the death penalty. It got overturned, when the death penalty was abolished in California, and she and the rest of the Family escaped the gas chamber.

Yes, I knew that, but they ended up getting life in prison since the death penalty was overturned.

[catlover79]

Originally Posted by JT

ITA with it not being a black or white issue. It's extremely grey, and honestly, I don't think that there is ever a situation that is truly just black or white. Seeing it as a black or white issue is, IMO, taking the easy way out, and is a major injustice to the general public.

Exactly.

[catlover79]

Originally Posted by Liza

My guess is she won't be let out. Her real chance was the bid for compassionate release last year, when the doctors gave her only a few months (she's already outlived that). If they wouldn't let her out to die at home, they won't let her out now.

Good point.