Oklahoma Druggist Arrested for Killing Holdup Man - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Doodyville10019 · 05-30-2009, 01:26 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090530/...rmacy_shooting

OKLAHOMA DRUGGIST ARRESTED FOR KILLING HOLDUP MAN

by Tim Talley - Associated Press

OKLAHOMA CITY – Confronted by two holdup men, pharmacist Jerome Ersland pulled a gun, shot one of them in the head and chased the other away. Then, in a scene recorded by the drugstore's security camera, he went behind the counter, got another gun, and pumped five more bullets into the wounded teenager as he lay on the floor.

Now Ersland has been charged with first-degree murder in a case that has stirred a furious debate over vigilante justice and self-defense and turned the pharmacist into something of a folk hero.

Ersland, 57, is free on $100,000 bail, courtesy of an anonymous donor. He has won praise from the pharmacy's owner, received an outpouring of cards, letters and checks from supporters, and become the darling of conservative talk radio.

"His adrenaline was going. You're just thinking of survival," said John Paul Hernandez, 60, a retired Defense Department employee who grew up in the neighborhood. "All it was is defending your employee, business and livelihood. If I was in that position and that was me, I probably would have done the same thing."

District Attorney David Prater said Ersland was justified in shooting 16-year-old Antwun Parker once in the head, but not in firing the additional shots into his belly. The prosecutor said the teenager was unconscious, unarmed, lying on his back and posing no threat when Ersland fired what the medical examiner said were the fatal shots.

Anthony Douglas, president of the Oklahoma chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, called it an "execution-style murder" and praised the district attorney for bringing charges. Ersland is white; the two suspects were black.

Parker's parents also expressed relief that Ersland faces a criminal charge.

"He didn't have to shoot my baby like that," Parker's mother, Cleta Jennings, told TV station KOCO.

But many of those who have seen the video of the May 19 robbery attempt at Reliable Discount Pharmacy have concluded the teenager in the ski mask got what he deserved.

Mark Shannon, who runs a conservative talk show on Oklahoma City's KTOK, said callers have jammed his lines this week in support of Ersland, a former Air Force lieutenant colonel who wears a back brace on the job and told reporters he is a disabled veteran of the Gulf War.

"There is no gray area," Shannon said. One caller "said he should have put all the shots in the head."

Don Spencer, a 49-year-old National Rifle Association member who lives in the small town of Meridian, 40 miles north of Oklahoma City, said the pharmacist did the right thing: "You shoot more than enough to make sure the threat has been removed."

Barbara Bergman, past president of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers and a professor at the University of New Mexico School of Law, likened the public reaction to that of the case of Bernard Goetz, the New Yorker who shot four teenagers he said were trying to rob him when they asked for $5 on a subway in 1984.

Goetz was cleared of attempted murder and assault but convicted of illegal gun possession and served 8 1/2 months in jail.

Bergman said those who claim they used deadly force in self-defense have to show they were "in reasonable fear of serious bodily injury."

The pharmacy is in a crime-ridden section of south Oklahoma City and had been robbed before.

The video shows two men bursting in, one of them pointing a gun at Ersland and two women working with the druggist behind the counter. Ersland fires a pistol, driving the gunman from the store and hitting Parker in the head as he puts on a ski mask.

Ersland chases the second man outside, then goes back inside, walks behind the counter with his back to Parker, gets a second handgun and opens fire.

Irven Box, Ersland's attorney, noted the outpouring of support for the pharmacist, including $2,000 in donations, and said: "I feel very good 12 people would not determine he committed murder in the first degree."

Under Oklahoma's "Make My Day Law" — passed in the late 1980s and named for one of Clint Eastwood's most famous movie lines — people can use deadly force when they feel threatened by an intruder inside their homes. In 2006, Oklahoma's "Stand Your Ground Law" extended that to anywhere a citizen has the right to be, such as a car or office.

"It's a 'Make-My-Day' case," Box said. "This guy came in, your money or your life. Mr. Ersland said, `You're not taking my life.'" The gunman "forfeited his life."

Box said that another person might have reacted differently, but he asked: "When do you turn off that adrenaline switch? When do you think you're safe? I think that's going to be the ultimate issue."

If convicted, Ersland could be sentenced to life in prison with or without parole, or receive the death penalty.

Jevontia Ingram, the 14-year-old boy accused of wielding the gun in the robbery, was arrested Thursday. The district attorney on Friday filed a first-degree murder charge against him, as well as against a man accused of being the getaway driver, and another man suspected of helping talk the teens into the crime.

The charges accuse all three of sharing responsibility for Parker's shooting death.
_______________________________________________________________

Now, in my opinion, THAT'S the way justice should be done - you try to hurt me, I'll hurt you - twice as hard!

OH Nuts! · 05-30-2009, 01:34 PM

Well shooting the teen once is understandable. And when someone is the victim of a violent crime you do have to give them some leeway. But the additional bullets were unnecessary. But first degree murder? At its very worst it would seem like 2nd degree to me. And even then, one does have to factor in the fact that the druggist may have not been rational then. So maybe not guilty by reason of temporary insanity. Or if its determined he was sane, he should get some kind of community service as a punishment. That kid after all was a criminal and had been wearing a mask. And who knows, even if the druggist had done everything the robbers wanted, they may still have killed him & the others. That has happened.

MickeyMac · 05-30-2009, 02:17 PM

This is a bunch of bunk. No way should this man have been arrested. They should give him a medal instead. He had every right to shoot.

OH Nuts! · 05-30-2009, 02:46 PM

Well how they arrived at a charge of 1st degree murder I don't get; it doesn't sound premeditated.

In the end I hope the pharmacist gets off & they determine he snapped and was insane at the moment he unleashed the 5 addn'l bullets. The facts and the pharmacist's past history in the neighborhood sound like they would support someone "snapping". But due process has to be followed - that first shot to the criminal's head DID have him lying on the ground unconscious.

robyrob · 05-30-2009, 03:11 PM

1st degree murder charges for the other three involved in the crime? - definitely; the act was certainly premeditated on their part, they brought the guns and intended to take someone's life that day

the drugstore employee is a different story, he didn't plan to kill anyone and acted in defence first, if anything it was manslaughter and hopefully they DO try to charge him with first degree murder because no jury could convict him of that in good conscience.

James"Thunder"Early · 05-30-2009, 03:54 PM

The first shot was justified, but the additional ones where not and the legal precedent for first degree is clearly there.Had he killed him with the first shot, then it was self defense, but it he killed him when he was unconscious and no longer a threat. He's not being charged for the first shot, so it's tricky. I'm pro self-defense, but I'm also pro-law too and this case has to be handled properly.

JamesG · 05-30-2009, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doodyville10019

"He didn't have to shoot my baby like that," Parker's mother, Cleta Jennings, told TV station KOCO.

Well your baby shouldn't have been participating in an armed robbery attempt of a store.

I have no sympathy for gunned down criminals during the commission of a crime.

I hope the pharmacist gets released or if this goes to trial he gets a "Not Guilty" jury verdict.

Edit - Upon closer reading I found out the shot teenager was not armed. Still doesn't change how I feel. Could he have just aimed his gun at the robber on the floor waiting for the police? Perhaps... but I don't blame him for shooting.

Unfortunately also it's a white vs. black incident so I hope nobody attempts to pull out the race card with this.

Doodyville10019 · 05-30-2009, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MickeyMac

This is a bunch of bunk. No way should this man have been arrested. They should give him a medal instead. He had every right to shoot.

I agree, Mickey. Wholeheartedly. Stuff like this is why I have such a hard time believing in order and laws.

MickeyMac · 05-31-2009, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doodyville10019

I agree, Mickey. Wholeheartedly. Stuff like this is why I have such a hard time believing in order and laws.

Totally and I am a firm believer that the first Dirty Harry movie and the first Death Wish movie should be required viewing for all Americans.

catlover79 · 05-31-2009, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesG

Well your baby shouldn't have been participating in an armed robbery attempt of a store.

I have no sympathy for gunned down criminals during the commission of a crime.

I hope the pharmacist gets released or if this goes to trial he gets a "Not Guilty" jury verdict.

Edit - Upon closer reading I found out the shot teenager was not armed. Still doesn't change how I feel. Could he have just aimed his gun at the robber on the floor waiting for the police? Perhaps... but I don't blame him for shooting.

Unfortunately also it's a white vs. black incident so I hope nobody attempts to pull out the race card with this.

MickeyMac · 05-31-2009, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesG

Well your baby shouldn't have been participating in an armed robbery attempt of a store.

I have no sympathy for gunned down criminals during the commission of a crime.

I hope the pharmacist gets released or if this goes to trial he gets a "Not Guilty" jury verdict.

Edit - Upon closer reading I found out the shot teenager was not armed. Still doesn't change how I feel. Could he have just aimed his gun at the robber on the floor waiting for the police? Perhaps... but I don't blame him for shooting.

Unfortunately also it's a white vs. black incident so I hope nobody attempts to pull out the race card with this.

I really hope this does not turn into a racial issue, but if it does, lets hope Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton do not get involved in this. Those two characters do more harm than good.

bandito · 05-31-2009, 06:04 PM

Why is it always my baby this my baby that?

Your baby is a thug, If your baby was raised better maybe nothing would have happened. I hope the pharmacist gets off scott free.

catlover79 · 06-01-2009, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MickeyMac

I really hope this does not turn into a racial issue, but if it does, lets hope Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton do not get involved in this. Those two characters do more harm than good.

I agree 100% there - those two are just media whores, anyway.

Faith · 06-01-2009, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MickeyMac

This is a bunch of bunk. No way should this man have been arrested. They should give him a medal instead. He had every right to shoot.

I agree with you 100% .

MickeyMac · 06-01-2009, 02:19 PM

In responce to the woman crying about "my baby". You hear that a lot when some criminal tries to commit a crime and gets killed in the end and his or her mother whines about "my baby this.... my baby that" I say to the mother and the father, why the hell didnt you know your baby had a gun, and where were you when he was turning to crime in the first place???? Better yet were you ever fully aware of what your kid was up to????

05-30-2009, 01:26 PM	#1
Doodyville10019 Meet my new friend Sparkie! Forum Regular Join Date: Oct 08, 2008 Location: Competition Square, located in Doodyville Park Posts: 877	Oklahoma Druggist Arrested for Killing Holdup Man http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090530/...rmacy_shooting OKLAHOMA DRUGGIST ARRESTED FOR KILLING HOLDUP MAN by Tim Talley - Associated Press OKLAHOMA CITY – Confronted by two holdup men, pharmacist Jerome Ersland pulled a gun, shot one of them in the head and chased the other away. Then, in a scene recorded by the drugstore's security camera, he went behind the counter, got another gun, and pumped five more bullets into the wounded teenager as he lay on the floor. Now Ersland has been charged with first-degree murder in a case that has stirred a furious debate over vigilante justice and self-defense and turned the pharmacist into something of a folk hero. Ersland, 57, is free on $100,000 bail, courtesy of an anonymous donor. He has won praise from the pharmacy's owner, received an outpouring of cards, letters and checks from supporters, and become the darling of conservative talk radio. "His adrenaline was going. You're just thinking of survival," said John Paul Hernandez, 60, a retired Defense Department employee who grew up in the neighborhood. "All it was is defending your employee, business and livelihood. If I was in that position and that was me, I probably would have done the same thing." District Attorney David Prater said Ersland was justified in shooting 16-year-old Antwun Parker once in the head, but not in firing the additional shots into his belly. The prosecutor said the teenager was unconscious, unarmed, lying on his back and posing no threat when Ersland fired what the medical examiner said were the fatal shots. Anthony Douglas, president of the Oklahoma chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, called it an "execution-style murder" and praised the district attorney for bringing charges. Ersland is white; the two suspects were black. Parker's parents also expressed relief that Ersland faces a criminal charge. "He didn't have to shoot my baby like that," Parker's mother, Cleta Jennings, told TV station KOCO. But many of those who have seen the video of the May 19 robbery attempt at Reliable Discount Pharmacy have concluded the teenager in the ski mask got what he deserved. Mark Shannon, who runs a conservative talk show on Oklahoma City's KTOK, said callers have jammed his lines this week in support of Ersland, a former Air Force lieutenant colonel who wears a back brace on the job and told reporters he is a disabled veteran of the Gulf War. "There is no gray area," Shannon said. One caller "said he should have put all the shots in the head." Don Spencer, a 49-year-old National Rifle Association member who lives in the small town of Meridian, 40 miles north of Oklahoma City, said the pharmacist did the right thing: "You shoot more than enough to make sure the threat has been removed." Barbara Bergman, past president of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers and a professor at the University of New Mexico School of Law, likened the public reaction to that of the case of Bernard Goetz, the New Yorker who shot four teenagers he said were trying to rob him when they asked for $5 on a subway in 1984. Goetz was cleared of attempted murder and assault but convicted of illegal gun possession and served 8 1/2 months in jail. Bergman said those who claim they used deadly force in self-defense have to show they were "in reasonable fear of serious bodily injury." The pharmacy is in a crime-ridden section of south Oklahoma City and had been robbed before. The video shows two men bursting in, one of them pointing a gun at Ersland and two women working with the druggist behind the counter. Ersland fires a pistol, driving the gunman from the store and hitting Parker in the head as he puts on a ski mask. Ersland chases the second man outside, then goes back inside, walks behind the counter with his back to Parker, gets a second handgun and opens fire. Irven Box, Ersland's attorney, noted the outpouring of support for the pharmacist, including $2,000 in donations, and said: "I feel very good 12 people would not determine he committed murder in the first degree." Under Oklahoma's "Make My Day Law" — passed in the late 1980s and named for one of Clint Eastwood's most famous movie lines — people can use deadly force when they feel threatened by an intruder inside their homes. In 2006, Oklahoma's "Stand Your Ground Law" extended that to anywhere a citizen has the right to be, such as a car or office. "It's a 'Make-My-Day' case," Box said. "This guy came in, your money or your life. Mr. Ersland said, `You're not taking my life.'" The gunman "forfeited his life." Box said that another person might have reacted differently, but he asked: "When do you turn off that adrenaline switch? When do you think you're safe? I think that's going to be the ultimate issue." If convicted, Ersland could be sentenced to life in prison with or without parole, or receive the death penalty. Jevontia Ingram, the 14-year-old boy accused of wielding the gun in the robbery, was arrested Thursday. The district attorney on Friday filed a first-degree murder charge against him, as well as against a man accused of being the getaway driver, and another man suspected of helping talk the teens into the crime. The charges accuse all three of sharing responsibility for Parker's shooting death. _______________________________________________________________ Now, in my opinion, THAT'S the way justice should be done - you try to hurt me, I'll hurt you - twice as hard!
	__________________ Hi! Hey! Hello again, here we go again!

05-30-2009, 03:11 PM	#5
robyrob certified wackball#3 Moderator Forum Icon Join Date: Aug 03, 2003 Location: hiding under the third booth at Arnold's Posts: 58,219	1st degree murder charges for the other three involved in the crime? - definitely; the act was certainly premeditated on their part, they brought the guns and intended to take someone's life that day the drugstore employee is a different story, he didn't plan to kill anyone and acted in defence first, if anything it was manslaughter and hopefully they DO try to charge him with first degree murder because no jury could convict him of that in good conscience.
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05-30-2009, 03:54 PM	#6
James"Thunder"Early Whoever's In New England Forum Veteran Join Date: Feb 23, 2004 Location: The Apollo Posts: 7,088	The first shot was justified, but the additional ones where not and the legal precedent for first degree is clearly there.Had he killed him with the first shot, then it was self defense, but it he killed him when he was unconscious and no longer a threat. He's not being charged for the first shot, so it's tricky. I'm pro self-defense, but I'm also pro-law too and this case has to be handled properly.
	__________________ Esther Anderson: Get thee behind me, Satan, but I'm gon' get behind you, 'cause I'm gonna put my foot in your--- Peggy Mitchell: Get outta my pub! You better pray you get the last laugh, it's a kick in the teeth when you don't get it.

05-31-2009, 06:04 PM	#12
bandito Going Topless Forum Veteran Join Date: Sep 28, 2002 Location: The Steel City Posts: 6,320	Why is it always my baby this my baby that? Your baby is a thug, If your baby was raised better maybe nothing would have happened. I hope the pharmacist gets off scott free.
	__________________ bandito

05-30-2009, 01:34 PM	#2
OH Nuts! Member Forum King Join Date: Feb 15, 2005 Posts: 133,383	Well shooting the teen once is understandable. And when someone is the victim of a violent crime you do have to give them some leeway. But the additional bullets were unnecessary. But first degree murder? At its very worst it would seem like 2nd degree to me. And even then, one does have to factor in the fact that the druggist may have not been rational then. So maybe not guilty by reason of temporary insanity. Or if its determined he was sane, he should get some kind of community service as a punishment. That kid after all was a criminal and had been wearing a mask. And who knows, even if the druggist had done everything the robbers wanted, they may still have killed him & the others. That has happened.

05-30-2009, 02:17 PM	#3
MickeyMac Member Forum Star Join Date: Jun 18, 2008 Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan Posts: 19,008	This is a bunch of bunk. No way should this man have been arrested. They should give him a medal instead. He had every right to shoot.

05-30-2009, 02:46 PM	#4
OH Nuts! Member Forum King Join Date: Feb 15, 2005 Posts: 133,383	Well how they arrived at a charge of 1st degree murder I don't get; it doesn't sound premeditated. In the end I hope the pharmacist gets off & they determine he snapped and was insane at the moment he unleashed the 5 addn'l bullets. The facts and the pharmacist's past history in the neighborhood sound like they would support someone "snapping". But due process has to be followed - that first shot to the criminal's head DID have him lying on the ground unconscious.

06-01-2009, 02:19 PM	#15
MickeyMac Member Forum Star Join Date: Jun 18, 2008 Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan Posts: 19,008	In responce to the woman crying about "my baby". You hear that a lot when some criminal tries to commit a crime and gets killed in the end and his or her mother whines about "my baby this.... my baby that" I say to the mother and the father, why the hell didnt you know your baby had a gun, and where were you when he was turning to crime in the first place???? Better yet were you ever fully aware of what your kid was up to????