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Old 02-23-2009, 03:16 PM   #1
Duster76
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Default Deconstruction of the final three Seasons

What happened here? The obvious answer in the departure of Don Knotts. Some will say it was the Knott's departure and going to color, but a closer look tells a more complicated story.

First and foremost, Griffith's performance level dropped through the floor. In some episodes his character seemed to sleepwalk through the show. Others he ranged from annoyed to verging on anger management issues. One episode, Opie is taking music lessons from Clara, there is a scene where Andy orders Aunt Bee in the car in a manner that shows almost contempt for her.
Question one, what happened to Griffith that he allowed his character to be presented in this light?

Second, Sheriff Andy, when the character of Warren failed to catch hold all the activity around the jail that use to be such a large part of the show had to come to an end. Andy had no one to interact with around the jail so there were fewer and fewer jail based episodes. Why? I know people didn't like the Warren character but shouldn't the writers and again Andy take the bulk of the blame. Andy was the gatekeeper to characters as they entered the Mayberry universe, if Andy liked the person the audience liked them. Look at the scenes between Warren and Andy, with Barney there was tolerance and understanding as his unique view of the world was unfolded, with Warren contempt and rage. How was the audience suppose to feel with that as an introduction. That's Andy and the writers fault. Question two, wasn't the failure of Warren more a reflection on the Griffith production company (and particularly Andy) than on Jack Burns?

Third, the scripts were weak. Look at the Aunt Bee episodes, Aunt Bee owns a restaurant , Aunt Bee learns to drive, Aunt Bee learns to fly (this seemed completely ridiculous), it was almost like the writers were going through the motions. Third question, Andy understood the characters why didn't he demand better writers and better scripts (he was a major star and had the power) ?

Consider the fact that other shows lost main characters over the years and replaced them without the show falling into utter disarray, (MASH, Mary Tyler Moore for example), Fourth, with all due respect to Paul Hartman (Emmet),
Jack Dodson (Howard), and Aneta Corsaut (Helen), couldn't the supporting cast have been upgraded a tad over this line up?

Something happened here which made no sense. The show that was on the first five seasons could be argued to be the best sitcom up to that point in time in TV history, the show the last three seasons wasn't even run of mill sitcom. If the show had started out with this cast I doubt it would have lasted more than one season. If the show had started out with scripts like this I doubt it would have lasted more than one season. If the show had started out with it's lead character presented in the manner Andy Taylor was in the final three seasons I doubt it would have lasted more than one season.
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Old 02-23-2009, 05:47 PM   #2
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I believe you made some very valid points. I have always noticed Andy's anger in the show once Barney left. Seldom did he smile and "sitcom" just didn't fit the show anymore. They stopped having The Darlings and Ernest T. Bass in the show and to me, this was a huge mistake. They were always funny and a joy to watch. Howard, Emmet, and the occasional guest star just didn't cut it.
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Old 02-23-2009, 06:02 PM   #3
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Even though my opinion of seasons 6-8 is not nearly as bad as yours seems to be, I will grant that TAGS did change for the worse in those color years. And although I have not read this in so many words, I think Andy realized he'd had enough after 5 years and his main comic character gone, and he may have hated his own decision to change his mind and continue. The reason Don Knotts signed his contract for a series of movies was (he said) because Andy had told him that he intended to do the series for only 5 years (if it were successful that long), and at the beginning of the 5th season he was still saying that. So Knotts began looking around for other opportunities and made his decision. Then, near the end of the 5th season, Andy told him that he had decided to stay with the series after all; so it was decided that Barney needed a replacement. The mistake was in trying to continue the same character-- the bumbling eager-beaver deputy there to menace the sheriff with comical antics that are very serious to himself. Andy said they told Burns it wasn't "Don Knotts material" they would be giving him, when he knew that wasn't true. Andy has admiited, though, that the failure of the Warren character was the production company's fault, not Jack Burns'. So, with such a bad beginning, it's my opinion Andy must have thought he'd done the wrong thing even in continuing the series at all, and that made him the tyrant on the set some have claimed he was, as well as putting less into his character, which obviously affected the entire show.

But even without the above situations, a series sooner or later gets to where all the good plot possibilities have been used up. When Howard Sprague was brought in, he was a new possibility, so he was featured in a lot of different ways central to many episodes-- joining the lodge, creating a bachelor pad, mentoring a troubled student, learning to fish, becoming a TV comic (!), even leaving to become a beachcomber on a little island. But he and his awkwardness couldn't be the big feature in every ep, so another idea was to 'expand Aunt Bee's horizons.' She did things she wouldn't have done in the earlier seasons-- owning a restaurant, learning to fly, running for city council, becoming a TV chef (!)... similarities? But since Aunt Bee was the anchor in the domestic side of the show (TAGS was half sitcom, and half domestic comedy), she had to return to that role, which meant she had to fail in these other endeavors, or give them up when she was going well.

So... main comic character gone [but to return a few times], a big mistake in trying to replace him in too literal a sense, a chip on the shoulder of the man who had final say and who played the main character, the best plot conceptions long used up.... yeah, the show would be quite different. But it is an ironic twist that season 8 was both the last and the only season in which TAGS finished Neilson #1.
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Old 02-24-2009, 08:54 AM   #4
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You do make a lot of very good and valid points.

I believe there were a couple of good additions to the cast, or upgrades if you will. First and foremost, Arlene Golonka as Millie Hutchins, although in my opinion she was not used enough. Second was Flora.

There were also some very good guest stars: Ruta Lee (as Darlene Mason), Elizabeth Macrae (Howard dances with her, while supposed to be doing schoolwork with her younger brother), Gavin MacLeod ("Sheriff without a gun" movie actor, playing Andy), and Whitney Blake (female attorney Lee Drake). All of these guests were terrific in some good episodes.

There were some highlights of the color seasons: The Taylors go to Hollywood for the movie shoot of "Sheriff Without a Gun," Howard catches silver carp "Old Sam," and then there was the Mayberry High reunion, where Barney finds that Thelma Lou is now married. Andy meets high society when it turns out Opie's friend is from a rich family -- remember about Andy's rowboat, and ultimately the group wants to go fishing with Andy?

While some fans have little interest in the color seasons, I especially liked those eps, in addition to Barney's other return appearances. I really believe that there were some great eps done.
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Old 02-24-2009, 09:03 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honeybea
They stopped having The Darlings and Ernest T. Bass in the show and to me, this was a huge mistake.
As you are most likely aware, there was one color episode featuring The Darling Family.
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Old 02-24-2009, 03:23 PM   #6
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Yes, it's a shame they only had the Darlings in one of the color shows. They were my favorites other than the original cast.
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Old 02-27-2009, 03:43 PM   #7
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I often wonder what happen to Warren anyways? For a few episodes he was there,and then he vanished and was never scene again.
Yeah I know it was a behind the scenes thing. But still you think they would of had an episode where Warren tells Andy that he was moving on.
Hey Coy and Vance was not on anyones favorite list either on The Dukes of Hazzard.But atleast they gave Coy and Vance a goodbye scene in there final apearence before joining Warren on The Never to be scene again list.
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Old 02-28-2009, 02:58 PM   #8
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Establishing the Warren character should have been a main priority for season 6. If it had been properly done they might have been able to transition the series without introducing the Sam Jones character. Warren should have been given a build up and back story that would have helped establish a relationship with the audience.

In addition, the on screen relationship between Andy and Warren was so bad that trying to establish a graceful exit would have been next to impossible. The only way out was writing the character out like he never existed.

In defense of the Griffith show this was common in the TV world of the
1960's. How did Petticoat Junction deal (or not deal) with the death of it's star. How did Gunsmoke deal (or not deal) with the exit of Chester. The Griffith show didn't deal with exit of Ellie, or the two mayors or for that matter the exit of Barney until the return of Barney episode. Floyd's exit was dealt with in one line (he opened a shop in Mount Pilot).
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Old 02-28-2009, 06:42 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duster76
Establishing the Warren character should have been a main priority for season 6. If it had been properly done they might have been able to transition the series without introducing the Sam Jones character. Warren should have been given a build up and back story that would have helped establish a relationship with the audience.

In addition, the on screen relationship between Andy and Warren was so bad that trying to establish a graceful exit would have been next to impossible. The only way out was writing the character out like he never existed.

In defense of the Griffith show this was common in the TV world of the
1960's. How did Petticoat Junction deal (or not deal) with the death of it's star. How did Gunsmoke deal (or not deal) with the exit of Chester. The Griffith show didn't deal with exit of Ellie, or the two mayors or for that matter the exit of Barney until the return of Barney episode. Floyd's exit was dealt with in one line (he opened a shop in Mount Pilot).
Yeah also Joseph Kearns who play Mr.Wilson on Dennis The Menace died during the Dennis The Menace shows run. They ended up getting Gale Gordon to take his place.
Been so many years since I watched Dennis The Menace as I dont even remember how they explained George Willson being gone?
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Old 07-06-2009, 07:40 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty's Fan
As you are most likely aware, there was one color episode featuring The Darling Family.
And a color ep with Bass too!
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Old 07-06-2009, 07:47 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duster76
What happened here? The obvious answer in the departure of Don Knotts. Some will say it was the Knott's departure and going to color, but a closer look tells a more complicated story.

First and foremost, Griffith's performance level dropped through the floor. In some episodes his character seemed to sleepwalk through the show. Others he ranged from annoyed to verging on anger management issues. One episode, Opie is taking music lessons from Clara, there is a scene where Andy orders Aunt Bee in the car in a manner that shows almost contempt for her.
Question one, what happened to Griffith that he allowed his character to be presented in this light?

Second, Sheriff Andy, when the character of Warren failed to catch hold all the activity around the jail that use to be such a large part of the show had to come to an end. Andy had no one to interact with around the jail so there were fewer and fewer jail based episodes. Why? I know people didn't like the Warren character but shouldn't the writers and again Andy take the bulk of the blame. Andy was the gatekeeper to characters as they entered the Mayberry universe, if Andy liked the person the audience liked them. Look at the scenes between Warren and Andy, with Barney there was tolerance and understanding as his unique view of the world was unfolded, with Warren contempt and rage. How was the audience suppose to feel with that as an introduction. That's Andy and the writers fault. Question two, wasn't the failure of Warren more a reflection on the Griffith production company (and particularly Andy) than on Jack Burns?

Third, the scripts were weak. Look at the Aunt Bee episodes, Aunt Bee owns a restaurant , Aunt Bee learns to drive, Aunt Bee learns to fly (this seemed completely ridiculous), it was almost like the writers were going through the motions. Third question, Andy understood the characters why didn't he demand better writers and better scripts (he was a major star and had the power) ?

Consider the fact that other shows lost main characters over the years and replaced them without the show falling into utter disarray, (MASH, Mary Tyler Moore for example), Fourth, with all due respect to Paul Hartman (Emmet),
Jack Dodson (Howard), and Aneta Corsaut (Helen), couldn't the supporting cast have been upgraded a tad over this line up?

Something happened here which made no sense. The show that was on the first five seasons could be argued to be the best sitcom up to that point in time in TV history, the show the last three seasons wasn't even run of mill sitcom. If the show had started out with this cast I doubt it would have lasted more than one season. If the show had started out with scripts like this I doubt it would have lasted more than one season. If the show had started out with it's lead character presented in the manner Andy Taylor was in the final three seasons I doubt it would have lasted more than one season.
Duster, I think Andy Griffith just worked for the producers. He wasn't one of them to the best of my knowledge! Just because a show is called your name doesn't necessarily mean you call all the shots. He was unlike Donna Reed both starring and making her show. I believe Donna and her husband Tony actually made and produced the show (that show was a Todon production). Griffith and his wife did'n't produce TAGS! Warren played by Jack Burns was probably not Andy Griffith's idea ever but I think he may have got Burns kicked off the show!
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Old 08-03-2009, 12:22 AM   #12
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Actually Andy had 50% ownership of the show. He also was the producer of the companion series Mayberry RFD, there was a recent article in the Roanoke Times about Andy's life. An old Don Knott's interview is quoted in the article in which he states Andy had a hand in writing every episode. Knotts regularly referred to it as the Griffith company in interviews done in later years. Griffith needs to be held accountable (as well as the rest of the production company).

I loved this show as a kid it was just so disappointing to me that is went downhill the last three years and seeing those episodes on TV Land brought the whole thing back.

In defense of Andy, how was he to know the show would endure into the 21st Century. If he had not decided to go on and ended the show after 5 years a case could have been made that it was the best sitcom of all time (I'm not saying it is, but I am saying the case could be made), with the baggage of the final three seasons to carry that case can not be made.
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Old 09-06-2009, 01:16 AM   #13
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The color seasons were still great in my opinion, but did throw in a few clunkers. I didn't like the one where the Italian family moved to town and lived with Sam. I hate "The Senior Play". Some though were awesome. Like "Old Sam" and the one where Howard and Andy get captured by crooks. I like the one where Howard runs for city council against Aunt Bee. I like the one where Emmit tries to sell insurance to keep his wife happy.

Anyway, it was still great, but impossible to live up to the standard set by the first five seasons.
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Old 01-09-2010, 02:33 AM   #14
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Three reasons:

1.)Barney has left the building. After Andy Griffith deciding to end the series, Don Knotts signs up for a movie and when Andy backs out they lose the Barney character.

2.)Colored episodes. When your use to seeing the same design over and over then you switch to something thats a big negative in my book.

3.)Introduction of Warren. First off all the lines Warren said were written for Don Knotts, but people still hated the character. That just tells you how much love there was of Barney and how much hate there was for Warren. They should have at least designed a persona for Warren more.

When Barney left & the episodes came in color thats when I stopped watching it.
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Old 06-03-2010, 05:34 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floyd2006
Three reasons:

1.)Barney has left the building. After Andy Griffith deciding to end the series, Don Knotts signs up for a movie and when Andy backs out they lose the Barney character.

2.)Colored episodes. When your use to seeing the same design over and over then you switch to something thats a big negative in my book.

3.)Introduction of Warren. First off all the lines Warren said were written for Don Knotts, but people still hated the character. That just tells you how much love there was of Barney and how much hate there was for Warren. They should have at least designed a persona for Warren more.

When Barney left & the episodes came in color thats when I stopped watching it.
Great points!

I think that the main point in all of this is that Don Knott's Barney is irreplaceable. It would be like doing "Leave it to Beaver" with a different Jerry Mathers. If you do something like that, similar in concept to changing Barney's landmark role, bringing in Warren, you destroy a role and a traditional expectation that Don Knotts was born to play. Take away Don, you lose Barney, and you lose such an incredible greatness and quality of TAGS that can't be restored.

I think Andy knew this, and it negatively affected his performance. Knowing how much Don's "Barney" brought to the show, it's easy to understand why.

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