Holly Krewson and psychic cruelty

[egswanso]

I feel sorry for the mother of Holly Krewson, whose segment was just one. This case is a classic example of the cruelty of "psychics", giving false information to desperate families.

I don't know how "Joyce" and others of her ilk can sleep at night, with the immeasurable damage they bring to victim's families and police investigations. To me, she's just as bad as the cruel hoaxer who called the mother pretending to be her daughter.

[Tap Dancer]

I forget; did her mother get the phone call from "Holly" before or after she was dead? I ask because the sign she posted said Holly had been missing for 6.5 years and I think they said that Holly was found dead a year after she went missing. Or am I getting it all wrong?

[MegtheEgg86]

Originally Posted by Tap Dancer

I forget; did her mother get the phone call from "Holly" before or after she was dead? I ask because the sign she posted said Holly had been missing for 6.5 years and I think they said that Holly was found dead a year after she went missing. Or am I getting it all wrong?

After. If my memory serves me correctly, the call came either 5 or 6 years after Holly had disappeared, thus four years or so after her death.

[crystaldawn]

Originally Posted by egswanso

I feel sorry for the mother of Holly Krewson, whose segment was just one. This case is a classic example of the cruelty of "psychics", giving false information to desperate families.

I don't know how "Joyce" and others of her ilk can sleep at night, with the immeasurable damage they bring to victim's families and police investigations. To me, she's just as bad as the cruel hoaxer who called the mother pretending to be her daughter.

I couldn't agree more!!

[Tap Dancer]

I feel so bad for parents who get those hateful prank phone calls after their children are missing.

[dawnfla6aa2]

Originally Posted by Tap Dancer

I feel so bad for parents who get those hateful prank phone calls after their children are missing.

Yeah a perfect of that was Amy Billig's mother. A U.S. Customs Department worker was harassing her with calls. How sick can you get!

[cmyweb]

Originally Posted by MegtheEgg86

After. If my memory serves me correctly, the call came either 5 or 6 years after Holly had disappeared, thus four years or so after her death.

Correct...she disappeared at 23. On her 30th birthday the newspaper ran an updated article on her mother's search. Shortly after that she received a phone call from someone claiming to be Holly.

[Corky Kneivel]

Exhibit A

[Mysteryphile]

I was reading on online website and it believed that sociopaths are born not made, which I thought was really interesting.

Sylvia Browne would have to be a sociopath because she has no feelings at all about how her lies are effecting the families...and seemingly no concious about it (telling someone their child would be found in water when the police thought they were killed elsewhere...I think I saw that segment on you know where tube)

Her son (and grand daughter) have also taken up the psychic path...hmmm...wonder if sociopathy runs in families?

[mah79]

Can someone refresh my memory? What was Holly Krewson's story about? When did it air on UM? I am trying to remember if I have seen it, but it doesn't ring a bell.

[biscuitgirl]

I don't recall this story either, but if you read Corky's link, it explains when Holly disappeared. Looks like they eventually traced the calls the mother was getting to a kid in Canada who was prank calling. The mother died before they identified Holly's body, unfortunately.

[Mastermind]

I feel sorry for the mother of Holly Krewson, whose segment was just one. This case is a classic example of the cruelty of "psychics", giving false information to desperate families.

I don't know how "Joyce" and others of her ilk can sleep at night, with the immeasurable damage they bring to victim's families and police investigations. To me, she's just as bad as the cruel hoaxer who called the mother pretending to be her daughter.

1. You do realize that hoaxers can be "non psychics' as well? How is this any different than:
a. A crooked lawyer trying to gouge a client
b. crooked PIs trying to convince a client that they need there resources? (Ozzie Kaban, in the Cindy James case for example)
c. Attention whores: who simply want to be part of the action
d. Serial confessers
e. Yellow journalists trying to write articles in a tabloid.

False leads, hoaxters, crooks and time-wasters are a part of criminal cases. Police deal with them every day in investigations

2. False leads can come from legitimate sources. Police Detectives could easily tell the family that they have the suspect in a case, only to tell the family that he's not there. Sadly that's a heartbreak that cannon be avoided.

3. I sympathize with the famil, but I feel that they are mostly to blame:
a. When they agreed to use the psychic, they had to have believed that the psychic had some powers. You either believe in psychics or you don't. You can't blame the psychic for having the wrong answers, and then praise them for having the right answers.
b. The family should not have dealt directly with the psychic, only a detective or a PI. Investigation is not a "do it yourself at home" job.
c. As desparate as the family is, it's important that they know that pyschic or no psychic...there is not going to be a magic solution to this case. I think it is important in cases for detectives(much like doctors, to a cancer patient) to temper victims families expectations.

4. Again, I will say it for the 100th time!. A psychic is just a source of information. That's all a psychic is not:
1. A witness
2. Investigator
3. Forensic Scientist

It's like profiling, regressive analysis, and "investigators intition" it only gives a possibility in the investigation. It's not the magic solution that will tell you who the killer is.

I wish I could posty the above to anyone planning to use a psychic and anyone refusing to use one.

[kadrmas15]

Yes Mastermind I agree with your opinion. I mean, I think people tend to be harder on psychics than they are on other people. Yes of course some psychics are scam artists looking to make a quick buck and/or draw attention to themselves. There are all sorts of scam artists out there most of whom are not psychics yet based on your guy's opinions those people are not as bad as the psychics. If only you guys would get as worked up about a prosecutor scamming a victim and their family into believing a certain defendant did something when they did not or a crooked defense attorney that takes the money and does basically nothing to help their client. I can speak to this, one of the people I write in prison, his family, paid a defense attorney roughly 60 grand (this was in 1988 so that same amount would be much higher today). Anyway this lawyer basically did squat and the guy I write was convicted and sentenced to death and he remains on death row to this day. Also in that case, the prosecutors had other suspects and hid information from the defense (information the defense lawyer would have been able to get had he done his job) that is just an example of things that outrage me.

However in terms of psychics, basically I view them as no different than being FBI profilers. A lot of times psychics are more perceptive and have more tools than the average person does. The same can be said of FBI profilers. However FBI profilers like psychics are not always right. They can lead you down the right path but that does not mean they know all or are always right. Yet when the psychic gets it wrong people are all over them yet the FBI agent gets a pass I guess because he wears a gun and a badge even though he is essentially claiming the same thing the psychics are.

[egswanso]

Originally Posted by Mastermind

1. You do realize that hoaxers can be "non psychics' as well? How is this any different than:
a. A crooked lawyer trying to gouge a client
b. crooked PIs trying to convince a client that they need there resources? (Ozzie Kaban, in the Cindy James case for example)
c. Attention whores: who simply want to be part of the action
d. Serial confessers
e. Yellow journalists trying to write articles in a tabloid.

False leads, hoaxters, crooks and time-wasters are a part of criminal cases. Police deal with them every day in investigations

They are all of the same ilk, to the extent they are know or should know that they are lying.

2. False leads can come from legitimate sources. Police Detectives could easily tell the family that they have the suspect in a case, only to tell the family that he's not there. Sadly that's a heartbreak that cannon be avoided.

There's a big difference between a false lead that comes out legitimate, good-faith investigations and a hoax. For instance, an eye-witness sighting can be a false lead, but it is not a hoax, if the person making the sighting had a legitimate good faith belief they were providing accurate information and were reporting information personally known to them through verifiable means, not heresay.

3. I sympathize with the famil, but I feel that they are mostly to blame:
a. When they agreed to use the psychic, they had to have believed that the psychic had some powers. You either believe in psychics or you don't. You can't blame the psychic for having the wrong answers, and then praise them for having the right answers.
b. The family should not have dealt directly with the psychic, only a detective or a PI. Investigation is not a "do it yourself at home" job.
c. As desparate as the family is, it's important that they know that pyschic or no psychic...there is not going to be a magic solution to this case. I think it is important in cases for detectives(much like doctors, to a cancer patient) to temper victims families expectations.

I find it hard to "blame" people for their desperation. I agree with you that if fewer people had magical thinking, you'd have less con artists, but even if the families are somewhat to blame, a parasite is a parasite.

4. Again, I will say it for the 100th time!. A psychic is just a source of information. That's all a psychic is not:
1. A witness
2. Investigator
3. Forensic Scientist

It's like profiling, regressive analysis, and "investigators intition" it only gives a possibility in the investigation. It's not the magic solution that will tell you who the killer is.

I have to disagree with you here because I define information in a different way then you. "Information" must have some basis in reality. It's not providing "information" if I just pull it out of my a**, it's speculating. While speculation can have limited usefulness in an investigation, it needs to stay close to the facts to really be useful. And you are also ignoring that the "psychic" often claims exactly the ability to tell who the killer is.

[egswanso]

Originally Posted by kadrmas15

Yes Mastermind I agree with your opinion. I mean, I think people tend to be harder on psychics than they are on other people. Yes of course some psychics are scam artists looking to make a quick buck and/or draw attention to themselves. There are all sorts of scam artists out there most of whom are not psychics yet based on your guy's opinions those people are not as bad as the psychics. If only you guys would get as worked up about a prosecutor scamming a victim and their family into believing a certain defendant did something when they did not or a crooked defense attorney that takes the money and does basically nothing to help their client. I can speak to this, one of the people I write in prison, his family, paid a defense attorney roughly 60 grand (this was in 1988 so that same amount would be much higher today). Anyway this lawyer basically did squat and the guy I write was convicted and sentenced to death and he remains on death row to this day. Also in that case, the prosecutors had other suspects and hid information from the defense (information the defense lawyer would have been able to get had he done his job) that is just an example of things that outrage me.

Bad people are bad people. That doesn't excuse psychics, however. I mean, if person X rapes and murders a 14-year old, he's not an OK guy because person Y rapes and murders a 10-year old. They are both bad people and both deserve punishment. The same can be said of the psychic, the corrupt DA, etc.

However in terms of psychics, basically I view them as no different than being FBI profilers. A lot of times psychics are more perceptive and have more tools than the average person does. The same can be said of FBI profilers. However FBI profilers like psychics are not always right. They can lead you down the right path but that does not mean they know all or are always right. Yet when the psychic gets it wrong people are all over them yet the FBI agent gets a pass I guess because he wears a gun and a badge even though he is essentially claiming the same thing the psychics are.

If self-proclaimed "psychics" would acknowledge they are, at best, simply mentalists and cold-readers, they wouldn't face the criticism. That's what "profilers" essentially are and yes, that can have value. The problem comes from the supernatural claims they make in the first place.