Should characters be allowed to be said to be lying/confused? - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

DTF955 · 10-27-2008, 07:32 AM

This isn't about the obvious ones, but ones where it can explain an inconsistency or something.

On "FUll House" the change to Jesse being a high school dropout could easily be explained by his having lied when talking about a supposed graduation; which is in character for him. (The Chronology and my fanfiction.net story "I Finally Did It, SIs" handle this *very* well; maybe I'll even put the latter up in the fan fiction section.) Character gaffes in other shows can sometimes be explained on faulty memory/confusion like in real life. (How many of us can recall names and dates as well as characters have to?)

This thought caused me to come up with one of my "thiniking person's TV" polls. In short, how do you feel about explaining inconsistencies by saying a character lied, or was mistaken? The genre is different from books, so sometimes we may expect a little more truthfulness/accuracy from them than normal. But, should we? they are still human. Or, is part of the escape from reality the notion that we don't have to judge whether a person is truthful and 100% accurate in all they say?

I voted #3, but I tend to think a lot more when watching, like some others who voted in my "how do you watch" poll. A fair number of "FUll House" fans on another board voted that they would rather Jesse have just admitted in that episode where they made him a dropout that he lied; as noted, it isn't *that* hard to put three little words into a script. So, I can see some might vote #4 or #5.

dawsongirl · 10-27-2008, 09:25 PM

The writers on Full House messed all kinds of crap like that. Season 4, Jesse was a HS grad...3 seasons later, he was a dropout. C'mon!! Who forgets a detail like that??

Pure laziness that shouldn't even have to be explained by the character. Writers need to stop being lazy and learn the past of their characters.

Schmoopie · 10-28-2008, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawsongirl

The writers on Full House messed all kinds of crap like that. Season 4, Jesse was a HS grad...3 seasons later, he was a dropout. C'mon!! Who forgets a detail like that??

Pure laziness that shouldn't even have to be explained by the character. Writers need to stop being lazy and learn the past of their characters.

That is SO true! I can't believe this, as I am a huge Full House fan, but I don't remember them saying that Jessie was a HS graduate in Season 4. I just remember when he decided to go to Night School to get his diploma.

However I have seen this on MANY, MANY shows.

Soaps are the worst! And I've been watching "Monk" long enough to find a lot of inaccuracies. For instance in the 100th episode "Mr Monk's 100th Case" or whatever it was called (I didn't like it at all

) it was stupid to say it was his 100th case. If you watch the episode entitled "Mr. MOnk and the Big Game" there is a really cute scene at the end where his assistant's daughter gives him something and says it's in honor of the 104 cases that he's solved. That episode aired at least a couple of years ago, so it was stupid of them to make such a big "error" and think that the fans wouldn't notice.

Andrea

dawsongirl · 10-28-2008, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmoopie

That is SO true! I can't believe this, as I am a huge Full House fan, but I don't remember them saying that Jessie was a HS graduate in Season 4. I just remember when he decided to go to Night School to get his diploma.

However I have seen this on MANY, MANY shows.

Soaps are the worst! And I've been watching "Monk" long enough to find a lot of inaccuracies. For instance in the 100th episode "Mr Monk's 100th Case" or whatever it was called (I didn't like it at all

) it was stupid to say it was his 100th case. If you watch the episode entitled "Mr. MOnk and the Big Game" there is a really cute scene at the end where his assistant's daughter gives him something and says it's in honor of the 104 cases that he's solved. That episode aired at least a couple of years ago, so it was stupid of them to make such a big "error" and think that the fans wouldn't notice.

Andrea

I was going off that episode where he had his HS graduation and that sexy ex-gf of his came back and wanted to get back with him. It was around season 4 anyway because John Stamos had that short, season 4 hair. lol

Schmoopie · 10-29-2008, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawsongirl

I was going off that episode where he had his HS graduation and that sexy ex-gf of his came back and wanted to get back with him. It was around season 4 anyway because John Stamos had that short, season 4 hair. lol

Oh that's right. I forgot about that one. Wasn't that where they played "Muskrat Love" because it was their song?

Andrea

dawsongirl · 10-30-2008, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmoopie

Oh that's right. I forgot about that one. Wasn't that where they played "Muskrat Love" because it was their song?

Andrea

Yes!

Terrible song.

Schmoopie · 10-30-2008, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawsongirl

Yes!

Terrible song.

Yeah, but I still love Captain and Tennille, no matter how cheesy they are!

Andrea

DTF955 · 10-30-2008, 08:10 AM

Your votes would be for #7, then, I presume

I'll admit they did what struggling writers do sometimes; instead of creating a story around the character, somepeople build the character around the story.

They did this so much so that the Chronology has around a dozen episodes that are changed somewhat to make things more like real life. (Sorry, you've got to read to see which ones.) However, that is not one of them; the problem of lying is that one can become so trapped in it, and find no way out. His faked graduation may belong more as a Hogan's Heroes ploy, but I have heard of people pulling such stunts in real life. Look at the guy who faked his own death over in Britain who was discovered a few years back.

The Chronology also has Book Universe, a bunch of other stuff we don't see that happens behidn the scenes, etc.. It tries to make things like a realistic close-knit and loving family. One with problems, to be sure (Danny's depression over Pam's death, etc.) but which is able to get through it with unconditional love.

So, it just sort of felt natural, when a bunch of fans got together and started vetting ideas as to how things happened, to have Jesse having lied about that. But, having worked so hard on it, I will admit thta it's easy to see why some are upset that nobody thought to have a small scene like this to explain it:

Becky: What about all those times... (at loss for words)
Jesse: I know, I lied, I'm sorry, Beck." (Puts an arm around her) I've felt so awful, and yet...whenever I'd go to admit it, something always came up. And the stories I created, I mean, nobody could check on 'em; the school thought I'd moved to Miami for a semester. And, Pam...
becky: Did she know?
Jesse: Yeah, you couldn't get nothin' past her. It's why I never got into no gangs or drank or nothin'; especialy not after this. She always had that to hold over my head. To protect me from myself. Man, what a sister!

I came up with that idea in 5 *seconds*. So, yes, it is frustrating when the writers decide not to put a beautiful scene into a show, building the story around the characters, instead of the characters around the story. But, part of the fun of the Chronology was trying to explain all the so-called inconsistencies as normal. (And, indeed, quite a few were normal, except that those complaining never bothered to think. D.J. in French in 12th grade, for instance - she'd taken Spanish since 6th, what school system is going to have *seve* years of a foreign language; of course she's going to be in another one. Even if they did have 6 - which not all do - after a while you'd think she'd get sick of the same one and want a challenge. I don't understand people who say that was an error. Do they hear that a friend is taking a different foreign language and complain that, "That can't be, you were in 'x' last year!"? :-) )

comedyfreak · 10-30-2008, 11:27 AM

I voted #7.

friendsfan77 · 10-30-2008, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawsongirl

The writers on Full House messed all kinds of crap like that. Season 4, Jesse was a HS grad...3 seasons later, he was a dropout. C'mon!! Who forgets a detail like that??

Pure laziness that shouldn't even have to be explained by the character. Writers need to stop being lazy and learn the past of their characters.

A similar situation happened on Golden Girls. In season 3, Rose mentioned that she gave a speech at her high school graduation because she was valedictorian. Then in the fourth season we find out she missed her high school graduation and has to take a history class in order to graduate.

View Poll Results: Is it OK to explain erros by saying characters led/were mistaken?
Yes, we're watching shwos with humans, not programmed robots, we all do it ourselves	2	33.33%
Yes, if not egregious -i.e.: You can't be off 10 years on your own mrriage	2	33.33%
Yes, if in character or impliedly fits situation (trying to escape trouble, etc.)	1	16.67%
Maybe, but lying must have clear motive, not just implied (i.e.: spy work)	0	0%
Only small errors, lies (Jese's graduation) should be admitted to; "Sorry, I lied" easy to script	0	0%
No, inability to know thoughts (unlike books) means truthfulness needed in every instance	0	0%
No, b/c escaping reality means not having to judge if character is lying, confusing names/dates	1	16.67%
Voters: 6. You may not vote on this poll

10-27-2008, 07:32 AM	#1
DTF955 Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Mar 15, 2002 Posts: 408	Should characters be allowed to be said to be lying/confused? This isn't about the obvious ones, but ones where it can explain an inconsistency or something. On "FUll House" the change to Jesse being a high school dropout could easily be explained by his having lied when talking about a supposed graduation; which is in character for him. (The Chronology and my fanfiction.net story "I Finally Did It, SIs" handle this very well; maybe I'll even put the latter up in the fan fiction section.) Character gaffes in other shows can sometimes be explained on faulty memory/confusion like in real life. (How many of us can recall names and dates as well as characters have to?) This thought caused me to come up with one of my "thiniking person's TV" polls. In short, how do you feel about explaining inconsistencies by saying a character lied, or was mistaken? The genre is different from books, so sometimes we may expect a little more truthfulness/accuracy from them than normal. But, should we? they are still human. Or, is part of the escape from reality the notion that we don't have to judge whether a person is truthful and 100% accurate in all they say? I voted #3, but I tend to think a lot more when watching, like some others who voted in my "how do you watch" poll. A fair number of "FUll House" fans on another board voted that they would rather Jesse have just admitted in that episode where they made him a dropout that he lied; as noted, it isn't that hard to put three little words into a script. So, I can see some might vote #4 or #5.
	__________________ Full House Chronology - at the webite "Tanner Central" among others (or e-mail fullhousechron (at) aol.com. "If Baseball Integrated Early," about baseball integrated fromt he beginning, & other works at baseballwhatifs (at) aol.com

10-30-2008, 08:10 AM	#8
DTF955 Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Mar 15, 2002 Posts: 408	Your votes would be for #7, then, I presume I'll admit they did what struggling writers do sometimes; instead of creating a story around the character, somepeople build the character around the story. They did this so much so that the Chronology has around a dozen episodes that are changed somewhat to make things more like real life. (Sorry, you've got to read to see which ones.) However, that is not one of them; the problem of lying is that one can become so trapped in it, and find no way out. His faked graduation may belong more as a Hogan's Heroes ploy, but I have heard of people pulling such stunts in real life. Look at the guy who faked his own death over in Britain who was discovered a few years back. The Chronology also has Book Universe, a bunch of other stuff we don't see that happens behidn the scenes, etc.. It tries to make things like a realistic close-knit and loving family. One with problems, to be sure (Danny's depression over Pam's death, etc.) but which is able to get through it with unconditional love. So, it just sort of felt natural, when a bunch of fans got together and started vetting ideas as to how things happened, to have Jesse having lied about that. But, having worked so hard on it, I will admit thta it's easy to see why some are upset that nobody thought to have a small scene like this to explain it: Becky: What about all those times... (at loss for words) Jesse: I know, I lied, I'm sorry, Beck." (Puts an arm around her) I've felt so awful, and yet...whenever I'd go to admit it, something always came up. And the stories I created, I mean, nobody could check on 'em; the school thought I'd moved to Miami for a semester. And, Pam... becky: Did she know? Jesse: Yeah, you couldn't get nothin' past her. It's why I never got into no gangs or drank or nothin'; especialy not after this. She always had that to hold over my head. To protect me from myself. Man, what a sister! I came up with that idea in 5 seconds. So, yes, it is frustrating when the writers decide not to put a beautiful scene into a show, building the story around the characters, instead of the characters around the story. But, part of the fun of the Chronology was trying to explain all the so-called inconsistencies as normal. (And, indeed, quite a few were normal, except that those complaining never bothered to think. D.J. in French in 12th grade, for instance - she'd taken Spanish since 6th, what school system is going to have seve years of a foreign language; of course she's going to be in another one. Even if they did have 6 - which not all do - after a while you'd think she'd get sick of the same one and want a challenge. I don't understand people who say that was an error. Do they hear that a friend is taking a different foreign language and complain that, "That can't be, you were in 'x' last year!"? :-) )
	Last edited by DTF955; 10-30-2008 at 08:48 AM.

10-30-2008, 11:27 AM	#9
comedyfreak Cheers! Forum Fanatic Join Date: Dec 14, 2005 Location: Sunny California Posts: 11,061	I voted #7.
	__________________ www.facebook.com/comedyfreak

10-27-2008, 09:25 PM	#2
dawsongirl Member Forum Icon Join Date: Jan 04, 2001 Posts: 53,140	The writers on Full House messed all kinds of crap like that. Season 4, Jesse was a HS grad...3 seasons later, he was a dropout. C'mon!! Who forgets a detail like that?? Pure laziness that shouldn't even have to be explained by the character. Writers need to stop being lazy and learn the past of their characters.