Philip Taylor Kramer, rock star & scientist, his last words

[Chris Billings]

According to wikipedia, former Iron Butterfly bass guitarist Philip Taylor Kramer made a strange final phone call to the police saying:

"I'm going to kill myself. And I want everyone to know O.J. Simpson is innocent. They did it."

I remember the episode from Lifetime and Im quite sure they never mentioned Kramer's O.J. statement. If he actually did say this, I would think UM would want to cash in on the popularity of the football star's trial and just the strange nature of the reference. Did he actually mention OJ and why did UM leave that part out if he did?

Christopher

[Kane]

Originally Posted by Chris Billings

According to wikipedia, former Iron Butterfly bass guitarist Philip Taylor Kramer made a strange final phone call to the police saying:

"I'm going to kill myself. And I want everyone to know O.J. Simpson is innocent. They did it."

I remember the episode from Lifetime and Im quite sure they never mentioned Kramer's O.J. statement. If he actually did say this, I would think UM would want to cash in on the popularity of the football star's trial and just the strange nature of the reference. Did he actually mention OJ and why did UM leave that part out if he did?

Christopher

The OJ comment has been mentioned in other sources, so by all accounts he did say it. Why UM didn't mention it is anyone's guess. (Maybe they weren't prepared to "cash in" on the OJ case?) But the mere mention of the OJ Simpson case in several segments, as well as the 1996 segment where Alan Dershowitz and former prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi debated on whether evidence could have been planted, kind of made up for that.

[justins5256]

Originally Posted by Chris Billings

According to wikipedia, former Iron Butterfly bass guitarist Philip Taylor Kramer made a strange final phone call to the police saying:

"I'm going to kill myself. And I want everyone to know O.J. Simpson is innocent. They did it."

I remember the episode from Lifetime and Im quite sure they never mentioned Kramer's O.J. statement. If he actually did say this, I would think UM would want to cash in on the popularity of the football star's trial and just the strange nature of the reference. Did he actually mention OJ and why did UM leave that part out if he did?

Christopher

At the time that aired, he was still missing.

My guess is UM didn't want to stir the pot too much by airing a comment that could potentially be deemed controversial by some.

And, as Kane said, UM would have other opportunities to cash in on the OJ debacle.

[synthisislab]

They did a UM segment on this case? Did they not air it much or something?

[crystaldawn]

Originally Posted by synthisislab

They did a UM segment on this case? Did they not air it much or something?

Yes it aired fairly often. Its on volume 11. I found an interesting article about him:

http://www.maximonline.com/articles/...aspx?a_id=2193

Also I found a part in an article that I'll link below that explains why UM left out the OJ comment:

http://web.archive.org/web/200408070.../kramer01.html

Let's play that suicide tape again:

" . . . This is Philip Taylor Kramer."

"Uh-huh. This is 911. Can I help you, sir?"

"Yes, you can. I'm going to kill myself."

Silence.

That is where the tape ended when it was played on two national TV shows. But it is not the end of the tape. Kramer's family authorized release of the 911 tape to the news media on condition that the next thing he said not be aired.

Here it is:

"And I want everyone to know: O.J. Simpson is innocent. They did it."

This illuminates something. Something of which Rep. Traficant, for all his conspiratorial certitude, was unaware. In the final days before his disappearance, Taylor Kramer was under nearly unendurable stress, pressing in on him from all directions, from within and without, from the past and present and future.

By most indications, he was quietly but emphatically going mad.

[Necco]

I think I agree with the family's decision. Airing that portion of the call would not have helped and might have hurt the search for Mr. Kramer. It may have caused people to write Mr. Kramer off as a man who had simply lost his grip on reality and wandered off to die. Whether that was their reasoning or they simply desired to minimize the impact such a comment might have on his loved ones, I understand why Unsolved Mysteries went along with it.

Oscar Levant said it best with "There is a thin line between genius and insanity."

The loss of a man such as Kramer was a large one to the scientific community.

[Wamisto]

Originally Posted by Necco

Airing that portion of the call would not have helped and might have hurt the search for Mr. Kramer. It may have caused people to write Mr. Kramer off as a man who had simply lost his grip on reality and wandered off to die.

Bingo. The correct answer to the question "why did (or didn't) UM do (such or such)" is always this: To make it seem as mysterious as possible!

In the later years of UM, there was an (I think) unfortunate move to begin profiling cases of famous people who either died mysteriously or were connected to those who did: Katherine Korzilius, Kurt Cobain, George Reeves, etc.

Taylor Kramer was a poor choice. It was an obvious case of a guy who went off the deep end and took his life. The segment tried to make it seem like a case of sleep deprivation rather than insanity. The OJ comment would have confirmed the latter, and Pop! There goes the mystery.

The only other semblances of a mystery that would have been left would have been the fact the van and the body were never found, and the eyewitness accounts. I don't know about you, but I pretty much wrote off all the eyewitness accounts for all of the usual reasons. As for the body and van never being recovered, I don't think that indicates he is still alive any more than it indicates he found a nice secluded place to die.

[moving2]

I just saw this case on Lifetime's UM today and I'm surprised a search of this website only turned up this thread. As I'm sure you all know, there was an update provided on this case.

"Four years after Taylor's disappearance, two hikers exploring Decker Canyon near Malibu Beach discovered the rusted shell of his van. Taylor's remains were inside. The cause of death was blunt force trauma. But authorities cannot determine whether his death was a suicide, accident, or homicide".

It seems suspicious to me that they found blunt force trauma to be the cause of death, as it seems an unlikely way to commit suicide. They did not mention if the van was damaged (i.e., if the blunt force trauma may have been caused by suicide by intentional car accident) but I'd think they'd mention something so obviously relevant.

[moving2]

Well, after some googling, I just answered my own question:
"The vehicle was discovered over the weekend in a canyon in the Santa Monica Mountains. It was badly damaged after careening more than 400 feet off Decker Canyon Road, about 1 1/2 miles east of Pacific Coast Highway."
http://articles.latimes.com/1999/jun/01/local/me-43051

Picture of the scene

Seems like a likely suicide by a mentally ill man to me. Very odd that UM didn't mention the vehicle damage and left it as a complete mystery, but then they seem to oddly leave out completely relevant information at times.

[Chris Billings]

Originally Posted by moving2

Well, after some googling, I just answered my own question:
"The vehicle was discovered over the weekend in a canyon in the Santa Monica Mountains. It was badly damaged after careening more than 400 feet off Decker Canyon Road, about 1 1/2 miles east of Pacific Coast Highway."
http://articles.latimes.com/1999/jun/01/local/me-43051

Picture of the scene

Seems like a likely suicide by a mentally ill man to me. Very odd that UM didn't mention the vehicle damage and left it as a complete mystery, but then they seem to oddly leave out completely relevant information at times.

In the original UM, I am fairly sure they did mention the van being found in a canyon off the road. And the assumption was accident or suicide.....the reboot Spike version may have chopped these "trivial" details off.

[moving2]

Originally Posted by Chris Billings

In the original UM, I am fairly sure they did mention the van being found in a canyon off the road. And the assumption was accident or suicide.....the reboot Spike version may have chopped these "trivial" details off.

Chris- sorry if I wasn't clear. I know UM aired the update. I meant I was surprised the case update didn't show up in my search of sitcomsonline UM forum. I was also trying to say that UM didn't mention whether the "blunt force trauma" appeared to be related to an intentional accident with the vehicle, but the article I found indicates it was.

[Guitar]

This one fascinates me partly because it came out of left field-- I have zero memory of watching it, yet it's a great mystery.
The dude's wife was gorgeous, he had fame when he was young, he was brilliant, yet... he wanted to kill himself because the company was in ruins..?

I just feel like there is more to this case than just "he was falling on hard financial times."

[Todd Mueller]

Originally Posted by Guitar

This one fascinates me partly because it came out of left field-- I have zero memory of watching it, yet it's a great mystery.
The dude's wife was gorgeous, he had fame when he was young, he was brilliant, yet... he wanted to kill himself because the company was in ruins..?

I just feel like there is more to this case than just "he was falling on hard financial times."

If someone has severe depression (or other mental illness) it doesn't have to make sense or have a clear reason. He was obviously stressed, and if he was severely fatigued as his family says, that could have put him over the edge if he was already mentally ill. The call indicates that he had probably hit the mental wall.

I thought the case was really cool when I first saw it, but now I believe it was just the suicide of a man who was once famous. I feel bad that his family had to go through all of this, especially not knowing for so long.

[LooksLikeCRicci]

Originally Posted by Todd Mueller

If someone has severe depression (or other mental illness) it doesn't have to make sense or have a clear reason. He was obviously stressed, and if he was severely fatigued as his family says, that could have put him over the edge if he was already mentally ill. The call indicates that he had probably hit the mental wall.

I thought the case was really cool when I first saw it, but now I believe it was just the suicide of a man who was once famous. I feel bad that his family had to go through all of this, especially not knowing for so long.

I agree with everything you've said here.

The previous question about a suicide by "blunt force trauma" seems pretty obvious to me. When a person is in an automobile accident (either a pure accident or one by their own doing) and succumbs to the injuries, I typically see it in the autopsy reports as "blunt force trauma" being the cause of death. It doesn't mean they were bludgeoned to death or anything...

[bell83]

Originally Posted by LooksLikeCRicci

When a person is in an automobile accident (either a pure accident or one by their own doing) and succumbs to the injuries, I typically see it in the autopsy reports as "blunt force trauma" being the cause of death. It doesn't mean they were bludgeoned to death or anything...

Right. We all know you're just saying that to protect Them, CRicci.

Illuminati confirmed.