Was John Lennon an Atheist? - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Nighthawk76 · 08-06-2008, 11:33 PM

Many people believe that John Lennon was an athesit. There is certainly evidence to indicate that he was. John stirred up quite a bit of controversey in 1965 when he said that he felt that the Beatles were more popular among kids then Jesus. On his debut solo album, 1970's Plastic Ono Band, John gave us one of his most powerful songs called "God" in which he said he believed in neither Jesus nor the Bible, and the first line in his peace anthem "Imaging" is "Imagine there's no heaven". However, I don't think John was an atheist.

A coworker asked me recently how I could be Catholic but identify so much with John's song "Imagine", which is my favorite song. My response was that even though I believe in heaven and God, I don't beleive in what many people do in his name. It's a historical fact that religion was the basis for many of mankind's bloodiest tragedies. So when John wrote "Imagine there's no heaven" and that he didn't believe in Jesus and the Bible, I take it as he didn't support what so many people have done in the name of God and Jesus.

When John wote both "God" and "Imagine" I feel that he was thinking the same way. After all, many of Lennon's lyrics were actually symbolic of something else. In his book, Lennon, author Ray Coleman said that he felt that John simply didn't believe in organized religion and it wasn't that he didn't believe in God or Jesus. What does everyone else think?

catlover79 · 08-06-2008, 11:51 PM

I tend to think he didn't believe in organized religion. I've read this article several times and showed it to others...I'm not sure how true it is, but it does give one pause.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/.../001-22.0.html

Nighthawk76 · 08-07-2008, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catlover79

I tend to think he didn't believe in organized religion. I've read this article several times and showed it to others...I'm not sure how true it is, but it does give one pause.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/.../001-22.0.html

Thanks for sharing the article, Monika. It was very interesting. As much as I thought I knew about John, some of what was mentioned in this article were things I didn't know. I'm not exactly sure what I think now concerning John's religious beliefs.

catlover79 · 08-07-2008, 12:11 AM

I don't think we'll ever know for sure what they were. But who knows what happened that final day after he was shot? It really makes one wonder...

AKA · 08-07-2008, 12:51 AM

I like to think that with the correspondence with Roberts, and with some of the lyrics he wrote shortly before his death, he was definitely heading in that direction.

John had a lot of the same problems with Christianity that I used to have (if you look at some of my old posts, you'll see how much I used to hate Christianity and Christians). Unlike John, I was blessed enough to have enough time to sort through those problems.

By the way, I'm a devout Christian, but am definitely against the idea of "religion."

ABlairican Pie · 08-07-2008, 12:59 AM

In 1966 when Lennon made his infamous "The Beatles are more popular than Jesus" comment to a British paper, he actually found it ironic that The Beatles were more popular than the world's central religious figure (or, at least in the West). He later said that he did not want to come across as being "anti-religious" or "anti-Christian", but that he had a healthy respect for Christ. He also said that his views were shaped by a popular book at the time
called 'The Passover Plot' which claimed that the disciples "twisted" the Gospel message for their own ends.

When he began his solo career in the early 70's, he began to say that he did not "believe in Jesus" or God in one song because of the backlash in America over what he said about Christ. Such nice, loving Christians burning Beatles' albums and making threats against them, right?

In that song, he also said that he did not "believe in The Beatles--I just believe in me". It was
an attempt to distance himself as this big iconic figure who had become a lightning rod for controversy.

However, in the final years of Lennon's life, British rock journalist/poet Steve Turner actually says that John actually briefly became a Christian and began watching shows such as The 700 Club and prayed with his young son Sean, getting emotional and even sobbing, letting loose some pain over time. But Yoko, who had problems with her first husband who had become a born-again Christian and had gotten custody of her first daughter Kyoko, talked John out of it. There's no exact account of where he stood on religion when he died.
But one can always hope...

AKA · 08-07-2008, 01:03 AM

These are the lyrics to "Help Me To Help Myself," a demo John recorded shortly before in 1980, and was released as a bonus track on the 2000 reissue of Double Fantasy.

Well, I tried so hard to stay alive
But the angel of destruction keeps on houndin' me all around
But I know in my heart
That we never really parted, oh no

They say the Lord helps those who helps themselves
So I'm asking this question in the hope that you'll be kind
'Cause I know deep inside I was never satisfied, oh no

Lord, help me, Lord
Please, help me, Lord, yeah yeah yeah
Help me to help myself
Help me to help myself

catlover79 · 08-07-2008, 11:31 AM

^ I'd like to hear that song. Thanks for bringing it up, Brad.

Nighthawk76 · 08-07-2008, 01:25 PM

^ Thanks for sharing the lyrics, Brad. I really like that song too.

Nighthawk76 · 08-07-2008, 01:36 PM

If any of you are interested in reading a really good Lennon biography, you should check out the one I mentioned in my first post, Lennon by Ray Coleman. It's quite probably the best book ever written on John. I believe that it is out of print, but I'm sure you could find it in a used bookstore or your local library.

floyd2006 · 08-07-2008, 01:42 PM

I personally dont know what his religion was, but does it matter. John Lennon made some lovely music and thats all I really need.

Smallscreen · 08-07-2008, 01:50 PM

"Imagine" is the communist manifesto set to music. It is also a great song. Apparently, that is were John's mind was when he wrote it.

John was just 40 when he was murdered. Like all of us, he had gone through many intellect changes while searching for maturity. Who knows who he would be today if he had lived.

catlover79 · 08-07-2008, 01:54 PM

^ It sure does give one a lot to think about. I was only a year old when John passed, but grew up to really admire and respect his songwriting skills. He'd be almost 70 (!) had he lived.

Nighthawk76 · 08-07-2008, 04:03 PM

John was certainly a facinating man.

MrCleveland · 08-07-2008, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy for Blair

Thanks for sharing the article, Monika. It was very interesting. As much as I thought I knew about John, some of what was mentioned in this article were things I didn't know. I'm not exactly sure what I think now concerning John's religious beliefs.

I think Lennon should've talked to Elvis at the time since Elvis knew Rex Humbard. (I can never get over that Elvis knew Rex, and I was surprised that Humbard didn't do the eulogy for Elvis.)

08-06-2008, 11:33 PM	#1
Nighthawk76 Rachel Berry Forum Celebrity Join Date: Feb 28, 2003 Location: Illinois Posts: 23,254	Was John Lennon an Atheist? Many people believe that John Lennon was an athesit. There is certainly evidence to indicate that he was. John stirred up quite a bit of controversey in 1965 when he said that he felt that the Beatles were more popular among kids then Jesus. On his debut solo album, 1970's Plastic Ono Band, John gave us one of his most powerful songs called "God" in which he said he believed in neither Jesus nor the Bible, and the first line in his peace anthem "Imaging" is "Imagine there's no heaven". However, I don't think John was an atheist. A coworker asked me recently how I could be Catholic but identify so much with John's song "Imagine", which is my favorite song. My response was that even though I believe in heaven and God, I don't beleive in what many people do in his name. It's a historical fact that religion was the basis for many of mankind's bloodiest tragedies. So when John wrote "Imagine there's no heaven" and that he didn't believe in Jesus and the Bible, I take it as he didn't support what so many people have done in the name of God and Jesus. When John wote both "God" and "Imagine" I feel that he was thinking the same way. After all, many of Lennon's lyrics were actually symbolic of something else. In his book, Lennon, author Ray Coleman said that he felt that John simply didn't believe in organized religion and it wasn't that he didn't believe in God or Jesus. What does everyone else think?

08-06-2008, 11:51 PM	#2
catlover79 God Bless Val Forum Addict Join Date: May 29, 2006 Location: Bewitched in Ohio Posts: 70,382	I tend to think he didn't believe in organized religion. I've read this article several times and showed it to others...I'm not sure how true it is, but it does give one pause. http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/.../001-22.0.html
	__________________ "Jesus loves you and He approves this message." "I'm alive. I'm feeling good. I'm trying to live every moment as much as I can." - Valerie Harper, March 2013

08-07-2008, 12:59 AM	#6
ABlairican Pie Member Forum Superstar Join Date: Dec 12, 2001 Location: Living where cats reign more Supreme than a pizza. Posts: 31,620	In 1966 when Lennon made his infamous "The Beatles are more popular than Jesus" comment to a British paper, he actually found it ironic that The Beatles were more popular than the world's central religious figure (or, at least in the West). He later said that he did not want to come across as being "anti-religious" or "anti-Christian", but that he had a healthy respect for Christ. He also said that his views were shaped by a popular book at the time called 'The Passover Plot' which claimed that the disciples "twisted" the Gospel message for their own ends. When he began his solo career in the early 70's, he began to say that he did not "believe in Jesus" or God in one song because of the backlash in America over what he said about Christ. Such nice, loving Christians burning Beatles' albums and making threats against them, right? In that song, he also said that he did not "believe in The Beatles--I just believe in me". It was an attempt to distance himself as this big iconic figure who had become a lightning rod for controversy. However, in the final years of Lennon's life, British rock journalist/poet Steve Turner actually says that John actually briefly became a Christian and began watching shows such as The 700 Club and prayed with his young son Sean, getting emotional and even sobbing, letting loose some pain over time. But Yoko, who had problems with her first husband who had become a born-again Christian and had gotten custody of her first daughter Kyoko, talked John out of it. There's no exact account of where he stood on religion when he died. But one can always hope...
	__________________ Release the kitties. --Nathan Explosion

08-07-2008, 01:42 PM	#11
floyd2006 Member Forum Regular Join Date: Apr 19, 2006 Location: Alabama Posts: 518	I personally dont know what his religion was, but does it matter. John Lennon made some lovely music and thats all I really need.
	__________________ Team COCO! My Youtube Channel

08-07-2008, 12:11 AM	#4
catlover79 God Bless Val Forum Addict Join Date: May 29, 2006 Location: Bewitched in Ohio Posts: 70,382	I don't think we'll ever know for sure what they were. But who knows what happened that final day after he was shot? It really makes one wonder...

08-07-2008, 12:51 AM	#5
AKA Member Forum Star Join Date: Dec 17, 2001 Posts: 15,746	I like to think that with the correspondence with Roberts, and with some of the lyrics he wrote shortly before his death, he was definitely heading in that direction. John had a lot of the same problems with Christianity that I used to have (if you look at some of my old posts, you'll see how much I used to hate Christianity and Christians). Unlike John, I was blessed enough to have enough time to sort through those problems. By the way, I'm a devout Christian, but am definitely against the idea of "religion."

08-07-2008, 01:03 AM	#7
AKA Member Forum Star Join Date: Dec 17, 2001 Posts: 15,746	These are the lyrics to "Help Me To Help Myself," a demo John recorded shortly before in 1980, and was released as a bonus track on the 2000 reissue of Double Fantasy. Well, I tried so hard to stay alive But the angel of destruction keeps on houndin' me all around But I know in my heart That we never really parted, oh no They say the Lord helps those who helps themselves So I'm asking this question in the hope that you'll be kind 'Cause I know deep inside I was never satisfied, oh no Lord, help me, Lord Please, help me, Lord, yeah yeah yeah Help me to help myself Help me to help myself

08-07-2008, 11:31 AM	#8
catlover79 God Bless Val Forum Addict Join Date: May 29, 2006 Location: Bewitched in Ohio Posts: 70,382	^ I'd like to hear that song. Thanks for bringing it up, Brad.

08-07-2008, 01:25 PM	#9
Nighthawk76 Rachel Berry Forum Celebrity Join Date: Feb 28, 2003 Location: Illinois Posts: 23,254	^ Thanks for sharing the lyrics, Brad. I really like that song too.

08-07-2008, 01:36 PM	#10
Nighthawk76 Rachel Berry Forum Celebrity Join Date: Feb 28, 2003 Location: Illinois Posts: 23,254	If any of you are interested in reading a really good Lennon biography, you should check out the one I mentioned in my first post, Lennon by Ray Coleman. It's quite probably the best book ever written on John. I believe that it is out of print, but I'm sure you could find it in a used bookstore or your local library.

08-07-2008, 01:50 PM	#12
Smallscreen Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Aug 07, 2008 Posts: 14	"Imagine" is the communist manifesto set to music. It is also a great song. Apparently, that is were John's mind was when he wrote it. John was just 40 when he was murdered. Like all of us, he had gone through many intellect changes while searching for maturity. Who knows who he would be today if he had lived.

08-07-2008, 01:54 PM	#13
catlover79 God Bless Val Forum Addict Join Date: May 29, 2006 Location: Bewitched in Ohio Posts: 70,382	^ It sure does give one a lot to think about. I was only a year old when John passed, but grew up to really admire and respect his songwriting skills. He'd be almost 70 (!) had he lived.

08-07-2008, 04:03 PM	#14
Nighthawk76 Rachel Berry Forum Celebrity Join Date: Feb 28, 2003 Location: Illinois Posts: 23,254	John was certainly a facinating man.