Pert Kelton Blacklisted from The Honeymooners? - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Honeymooners_Myspace · 06-08-2008, 09:26 PM

Hello everyone. Does anyone know for a fact that Pert Kelton was blacklisted from performing as Alice when Audrey took over? I refuse to believe that, as a result of some of the books that I have on the subject don't mention it. A few places online, including Wikipedia, and Sticoms Online main introductory page to The Honeymooners state that Pert had medical issues, but it was later revealed that she had been blacklisted.

According to one of the books that I have The Honeymooners Lost Episodes by Donna McCrohan and Peter Crescenti, "Pert suffered a coronary thrombosis and, sadly, had to withdraw. She simply could not have continued. It was more that the end of the tour for her. It was the end of her tenure of Alice."

From this information, it just seems that she, as they say, SIMPLY could NOT continue... period! I KNOW that Jackie and Pert remained really good friends for many years after Pert's play of Alice (and even appeared in the Color Honeymooners much later on), so wouldn't you think that if she was reportedly blacklisted that she would have some animosity against Gleason since he was running the show, especially before the Classic 39 days? If anyone can shed some light on this, I would appreciate it. Thanks!

*ClassicPinUp* · 06-09-2008, 01:07 AM

She most definitely was blacklisted. Pert's name is on the Red Channels list as a Communist sympathizer. Her husband Ralph Bell was also listed. The 'heart problem' was simply a cover story made up by Jackie as a way of protecting her.

I don't see why she'd have any animosity toward Jackie as he wasn't the one doing the blacklisting. He had no control over any of it.

Bill S. · 06-09-2008, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honeymooners_Myspace

According to one of the books that I have The Honeymooners Lost Episodes by Donna McCrohan and Peter Crescenti, "Pert suffered a coronary thrombosis and, sadly, had to withdraw. She simply could not have continued. It was more that the end of the tour for her. It was the end of her tenure of Alice."

Don't believe everything you read in those old Honeymooners books, especially those written by Donna McCrohan...a lot of inaccurate information was published back in the 80's, before we knew some of the stuff we do today.

W.B. · 06-09-2008, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *ClassicPinUp*

She most definitely was blacklisted. Pert's name is on the Red Channels list as a Communist sympathizer. Her husband Ralph Bell was also listed. The 'heart problem' was simply a cover story made up by Jackie as a way of protecting her.

I don't see why she'd have any animosity against Jackie as he wasn't the one doing the blacklisting. He had no control over any of it.

True, especially given that CBS required all employees to sign loyalty oaths in those days. William Henry III's description in the Gleason bio was a doozy, though; as I keep saying, he was trying to straddle the fence . . .

Honeymooners_Myspace · 06-09-2008, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *ClassicPinUp*

She most definitely was blacklisted. Pert's name is on the Red Channels list as a Communist sympathizer. Her husband Ralph Bell was also listed. The 'heart problem' was simply a cover story made up by Jackie as a way of protecting her.

I don't see why she'd have any animosity toward Jackie as he wasn't the one doing the blacklisting. He had no control over any of it.

Thanks Erin!... didn't know that about her, but that's why we ask questions, right?... but can you tell me exactly where you're getting this information because the reason why I brought this question up was that one of the fans on Myspace asked about it, and I wanted to give him an accurate response... so if you can tell me what reference source I can refer him to, so he can see it for himself, I'd really appreciate it... thanks again.

Honeymooners_Myspace · 06-09-2008, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill S.

Don't believe everything you read in those old Honeymooners books, especially those written by Donna McCrohan...a lot of inaccurate information was published back in the 80's, before we knew some of the stuff we do today.

Thanks Bill... yeah, just like you can't believe everything you read written on the outside of an MPI DVD or VHS box... lol... you know, you bring up a good pernt about information later on down the line being more accurate than information from the past with stuff like this... since time can help open our eyes and see things more accurately, someone should take the initiative with writing current, more up to date books on the subject... I know that we have the Internet to rely on these days, but sometimes that's even worse... you're right, and it would really be helpful to have more reliable sources... thanks again!

*ClassicPinUp* · 06-09-2008, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honeymooners_Myspace

Thanks Erin!... didn't know that about her, but that's why we ask questions, right?... but can you tell me exactly where you're getting this information because the reason why I brought this question up was that one of the fans on Myspace asked about it, and I wanted to give him an accurate response... so if you can tell me what reference source I can refer him to, so he can see it for himself, I'd really appreciate it... thanks again.

Well, my 'source' was just plain studying and reading about it. The book issued on June 22, 1950; Red Channels: The Report of Communist Influence in Radio and Television which will cost them a little over $200 - is the complete list and information. It's expensive but that's really the only reliable source I can give.

There is a website that gives the basic information and some listings (including Pert and her husband's name) so maybe this will do; http://www.answers.com/topic/hollywood-ten (you'll have to scroll down)

Honeymooners_Myspace · 06-09-2008, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *ClassicPinUp*

Well, my 'source' was just plain studying and reading about it. The book issued on June 22, 1950; Red Channels: The Report of Communist Influence in Radio and Television which will cost them a little over $200 - is the complete list and information. It's expensive but that's really the only reliable source I can give.

There is a website that gives the basic information and some listings (including Pert and her husband's name) so maybe this will do; http://www.answers.com/topic/hollywood-ten (you'll have to scroll down)

Hey thanks Erin!... yeah, when I said "source" I just wanted to know where you personally learned that information, and if it was able to be obtained online or in print some other place... this whole subject is VERY interesting in my opinion, and thanks so much for the picture of the Red Channels book... between the picture of the book and the link that you gave me, that's absolutely perfect, and I'll forward on over to him... you guys are TOP NOTCH with this stuff, and even though I've been a fan of The Honeymooners for many years, I admit that I still have a lot to learn, and I sure learn A LOT with you guys on here... I REALLY appreciate all of your expertise!

Bill S. · 06-10-2008, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honeymooners_Myspace

Thanks Bill... yeah, just like you can't believe everything you read written on the outside of an MPI DVD or VHS box... lol... you know, you bring up a good pernt about information later on down the line being more accurate than information from the past with stuff like this... since time can help open our eyes and see things more accurately, someone should take the initiative with writing current, more up to date books on the subject... I know that we have the Internet to rely on these days, but sometimes that's even worse... you're right, and it would really be helpful to have more reliable sources... thanks again!

Haha...between MPI, outdated books and sites like Wikipedia, it's hard to tell what's true and what's not. To quote Ralph, "I don't like to brag," but this board really seems to be the most accurate source on the web. Several untrue statements published by the likes of Donna McCrohan have been proven wrong right here on this board, courtesy of VIDEOWACK, W.B., and myself.

Benno123 · 06-11-2008, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W.B.

True, especially given that CBS required all employees to sign loyalty oaths in those days. William Henry III's description in the Gleason bio was a doozy, though; as I keep saying, he was trying to straddle the fence . . .

I was flipping through this book for the first time in a long time a few weeks back. Was it me or did it seem William Henry almost had some ax to grind with Jackie Gleason?

W.B. · 06-12-2008, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benno123

I was flipping through this book for the first time in a long time a few weeks back. Was it me or did it seem William Henry almost had some ax to grind with Jackie Gleason?

Apparently, Audrey Meadows thought so too, even going so far as to allude to him but not mention him by name in Love, Alice. She seemed to prefer W.J. Weatherby's Gleason bio which came out around the same time . . . (for the record, I have both).

Benno123 · 06-12-2008, 07:51 AM

I have the Weatherby book also, though it's been so long since I've looked through it or read it. I may have to get it a peak later today. Somewhere around here I also have a copy of James Bacon's book about Jackie, the one I think Bob Hope (or someone) said was probably written on cocktail napkins!

A few years back at a local antique mall I found a mint condition hardback copy of The Golden Ham, the first biography on Jackie from way back yonder in the 1950s. I have it stored away, but I have never read that one.

06-08-2008, 09:26 PM	#1
Honeymooners_Myspace Homina! Homina! Frequent Poster Join Date: Feb 07, 2007 Location: Key Largo, Florida Posts: 122	Pert Kelton Blacklisted from The Honeymooners? Hello everyone. Does anyone know for a fact that Pert Kelton was blacklisted from performing as Alice when Audrey took over? I refuse to believe that, as a result of some of the books that I have on the subject don't mention it. A few places online, including Wikipedia, and Sticoms Online main introductory page to The Honeymooners state that Pert had medical issues, but it was later revealed that she had been blacklisted. According to one of the books that I have The Honeymooners Lost Episodes by Donna McCrohan and Peter Crescenti, "Pert suffered a coronary thrombosis and, sadly, had to withdraw. She simply could not have continued. It was more that the end of the tour for her. It was the end of her tenure of Alice." From this information, it just seems that she, as they say, SIMPLY could NOT continue... period! I KNOW that Jackie and Pert remained really good friends for many years after Pert's play of Alice (and even appeared in the Color Honeymooners much later on), so wouldn't you think that if she was reportedly blacklisted that she would have some animosity against Gleason since he was running the show, especially before the Classic 39 days? If anyone can shed some light on this, I would appreciate it. Thanks!
	__________________ Ralphie Boy www.myspace.com/the_honeymooners "Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh!... Carlos was teaching you to do the Mambo!... that puts a different light on everything!... before when I walked in here, I didn't know what you were doing!... now I know, Carlos was teaching you to do the Mambo!... that makes a WOOORLD of difference!... EVERYYY BODY OUUUUUUT!!!!!!!!" Last edited by Honeymooners_Myspace; 06-08-2008 at 10:02 PM.

06-09-2008, 01:07 AM	#2
ClassicPinUp ***** Senior Member** Join Date: Oct 28, 2006 Posts: 2,246	She most definitely was blacklisted. Pert's name is on the Red Channels list as a Communist sympathizer. Her husband Ralph Bell was also listed. The 'heart problem' was simply a cover story made up by Jackie as a way of protecting her. I don't see why she'd have any animosity toward Jackie as he wasn't the one doing the blacklisting. He had no control over any of it.
	__________________ Imy firefighter! Last edited by ClassicPinUp; 06-09-2008 at 01:50 PM.

06-12-2008, 07:51 AM	#12
Benno123 Jenna Fischer Rocks My World!! Senior Member Join Date: Nov 01, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,036	I have the Weatherby book also, though it's been so long since I've looked through it or read it. I may have to get it a peak later today. Somewhere around here I also have a copy of James Bacon's book about Jackie, the one I think Bob Hope (or someone) said was probably written on cocktail napkins! A few years back at a local antique mall I found a mint condition hardback copy of The Golden Ham, the first biography on Jackie from way back yonder in the 1950s. I have it stored away, but I have never read that one.