About the Son of Sam killings - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

synthisislab · 05-21-2008, 01:10 PM

I wonder if those satanists (the 22 disciples) that are believed to be responsible for some of the Son of Sam murders still perform satanic rituals in that park they mentioned in the UM segment. I also wonder if they could be responsible for other murders committed after Berkowitz went down that weren't the same MO as the Son of Sam killings. I guess the police didn't seem to care about a satanic cult preying on people as long as they had the fall guy in custody.

SPD Yellow · 05-21-2008, 03:35 PM

I'm not buying it. A huge group of people meeting in central park at a specific time and place every week and sacrificing dogs? You gotta be kidding me. With the amount of people and noise that would make, someone would find out. Oh, but I forget, they're all part of the conspiracy too.

I'm going to err on the side of Occam's Razor: the simplest explanation is often the best one. You can either believe in a huge Satanic cabal involving just about everyone in New York or you can believe one lone nut was going around killing people.

synthisislab · 05-21-2008, 05:09 PM

How do you explain all the different composite drawings of the shooter/killers, none of which resembled Berkowitz? In the UM segment it didn't say that they met at that park every week, but that it met there in 1987 recently to when the UM segment aired. Do you think the Carr brothers (the sons of Sam Carr) being mentioned in the Son of Sam letters that Berkowitz later said were involved in some of the killings/shootings, is just a mere coincidence? There seems to be a lot of evidence that suggests multiple suspects.

James T · 05-22-2008, 07:21 AM

Having seen lots of UM Mysteries segments, and other cases around the world we have to be very careful of eyewitness testimony. These crimes were done at night making identification harder- how do witnesses manage to pick the wrong person out of ID lineups when the guilty party is standing there?

The time frame evidence is patchy, it only takes one person to be a few minutes out to throw the multiple participants theory out, people's watches are often fast or slow by several minutes, how many cases have we seen with positive sightings of missing people, yet these people turn out to be found somewhere else never having been to where they are 'sighted' or end up being found dead and actually died before they were 'sighted' by these people?

I am sure it is easier for many to think there was a serial killer network rather than a lone man with mental issues running around shooting people, but very funny that in all these cases these murders just stop dead when they are caught. Not to say there were not satanists around but I am sure they are still everywhere. But serial killers do not stop doing crimes with the same mo just because they let a patsy take the rap, they would carry on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by synthisislab

How do you explain all the different composite drawings of the shooter/killers, none of which resembled Berkowitz? In the UM segment it didn't say that they met at that park every week, but that it met there in 1987 recently to when the UM segment aired. Do you think the Carr brothers (the sons of Sam Carr) being mentioned in the Son of Sam letters that Berkowitz later said were involved in some of the killings/shootings, is just a mere coincidence? There seems to be a lot of evidence that suggests multiple suspects.

synthisislab · 05-22-2008, 01:04 PM

Yes that usually is true, but how do you count for every single one of those composites being of different people? We aren't talking about a couple of witnesses. There were many witnesses to these crimes and 6 different composites that looked nothing like each other and only one looked similar to Berkowitz.

James T · 05-22-2008, 05:40 PM

Well these people were blindsided and attacked in a flash seeing a loved one shot and then he fled, they probably did not really have a great look at the perpetrator and would be in shock, it is probable he changed appearance for the crimes by doing things like wearing wigs etc. The one sketch that was used actually looks more like Leonard Cohen than it does Berkowitz.

justins5256 · 05-23-2008, 02:53 PM

I'm pretty sure this wasn't mentioned directly in the UM segment, but try googling "The Process Church of Final Judgment". This is the Satanic group that some believe were behind the Son of Sam murders.

Frank Cannon · 07-28-2009, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPD Yellow

I'm not buying it. A huge group of people meeting in central park at a specific time and place every week and sacrificing dogs? You gotta be kidding me. With the amount of people and noise that would make, someone would find out. Oh, but I forget, they're all part of the conspiracy too.

Just to note......it wasn't "Central Park" but a park out in Yonkers (Untermeyer, I think) that had an aqueduct set way back in the woods. I also don't think there were set times or anything like that.

Mastermind · 07-28-2009, 03:23 PM

I could be wrong about this, but isn't the Son of Sam case still considered open and being investigated by NYPD for other suspects?

Frank Cannon · 07-28-2009, 03:37 PM

It's open in the city of Yonkers. I'm also pretty sure the D.A. of Queens considered it still open.

For me, it's not just that the composites were different. It's that one looks exactly like another suspect in the case, someone who was close to Berkowitz, as well as just happened to be the real life "Son of Sam" Carr.

MegtheEgg86 · 07-28-2009, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Cannon

It's open in the city of Yonkers. I'm also pretty sure the D.A. of Queens considered it still open.

For me, it's not just that the composites were different. It's that one looks exactly like another suspect in the case, someone who was close to Berkowitz, as well as just happened to be the real life "Son of Sam" Carr.

If there's anyone that needs to be sitting in a New York prison right now, it's John Carr (of course, as we know, he found his own way out of facing the music). Although Berkowitz is where he needs to be, he was not and never will be half the demented lunatic Carr was. I believe it was definitely Carr who committed at least two of the shootings, one of which is the Moskowiz/Violante shooting. I believe Berkowitz was present for all of the shootings (and committed at least one), but he certainly was not the mastermind of the entire operation. That title belonged to Carr.

Eibon · 08-25-2009, 11:28 AM

"try googling "The Process Church of Final Judgment". This is the Satanic group that some believe were behind the Son of Sam murders."

It was actually an offshoot of the Process, something called "4P" that is alleged to have something to do with the murders. A new book on the Process was released a few months ago - the Process never had anything to do with any of this.

Mysteryphile · 08-28-2009, 08:52 AM

But if there were a group involved, or Carr...why not say they were involved? Why is he (supposedly) taking the rap for the whole thing? Doesn't make sense to me that he would keep silent...especially all these years later.

justins5256 · 08-28-2009, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mysteryphile

But if there were a group involved, or Carr...why not say they were involved? Why is he (supposedly) taking the rap for the whole thing? Doesn't make sense to me that he would keep silent...especially all these years later.

Who? Carr or Berkowitz? The two Carr brothers who were suspects in the case are long dead. Both died under very suspicious circumstances. Berkowitz has accepted responsibility for his part in the shootings, and has confirmed that the deceased Carr brothers were involved. He has refused to name names otherwise because he says that other individuals involved in the Son of Sam attacks are still alive.

Arnold_OldSchool · 08-29-2009, 04:44 PM

WOW...does this ever have alot of side stories to go to it....

The US experimented with brainwashing during the Korean War, and later Operation "Midnight Climax" came about where the government experimented with LSD as a mind control drug.

These 2 experiments have been linked to numberous assassinations including RFK as Sirhan Sirhan was "programmed" to kill RFK ...also the "Son of Sam" David Berkowitz admitted to doing LSD while in the army and speculation was made by some that he indeed was programmed as well...

Of course "Son of Sam" is part of a bigger Conspiracy... not only was he not the triggerman for all of the murders pegged to him (the others were members of his Satanic Cult but....

Berkowitz had information about murders that happened across the country(Arliss Perry)... and speculation was his cult "The Process Church of Final Judgment" was connected to the Manson Family murders... http://labyrinth13.com/Process.htm ...

and the Zodiac murders

John Carr (aka John Wheaties) was the Son of the owner of the dog who Berkowitz claimed told him to kill, and alot of evidence points to Carr as the main culprit of SOS murders. Carr committed "Suicide" via shotgun blast with NY SS and 666 carved into his hands

Others have traced the Son of Sam cult all the way back to the Comedian Fatty Arbuckle rape/murder of Virgina Rappe back in the 20's or 30's.....

And still others feel the SOS cult is connected to the Freemasons and Illuminati...so they programmed Lynette Fromme a SOS cult member to kill President Ford (she failed obviously) which would put Rockefeller in as President and Rockefeller is supposedly a well known Mason and Illuminati member

05-21-2008, 01:10 PM	#1
synthisislab Member Forum Regular Join Date: Mar 11, 2006 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 552	About the Son of Sam killings I wonder if those satanists (the 22 disciples) that are believed to be responsible for some of the Son of Sam murders still perform satanic rituals in that park they mentioned in the UM segment. I also wonder if they could be responsible for other murders committed after Berkowitz went down that weren't the same MO as the Son of Sam killings. I guess the police didn't seem to care about a satanic cult preying on people as long as they had the fall guy in custody.

05-21-2008, 03:35 PM	#2
SPD Yellow Member Frequent Poster Join Date: May 21, 2008 Posts: 340	I'm not buying it. A huge group of people meeting in central park at a specific time and place every week and sacrificing dogs? You gotta be kidding me. With the amount of people and noise that would make, someone would find out. Oh, but I forget, they're all part of the conspiracy too. I'm going to err on the side of Occam's Razor: the simplest explanation is often the best one. You can either believe in a huge Satanic cabal involving just about everyone in New York or you can believe one lone nut was going around killing people.

05-21-2008, 05:09 PM	#3
synthisislab Member Forum Regular Join Date: Mar 11, 2006 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 552	How do you explain all the different composite drawings of the shooter/killers, none of which resembled Berkowitz? In the UM segment it didn't say that they met at that park every week, but that it met there in 1987 recently to when the UM segment aired. Do you think the Carr brothers (the sons of Sam Carr) being mentioned in the Son of Sam letters that Berkowitz later said were involved in some of the killings/shootings, is just a mere coincidence? There seems to be a lot of evidence that suggests multiple suspects.

05-22-2008, 01:04 PM	#5
synthisislab Member Forum Regular Join Date: Mar 11, 2006 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 552	Yes that usually is true, but how do you count for every single one of those composites being of different people? We aren't talking about a couple of witnesses. There were many witnesses to these crimes and 6 different composites that looked nothing like each other and only one looked similar to Berkowitz.

05-22-2008, 05:40 PM	#6
James T Member Senior Member Join Date: Apr 23, 2006 Location: England Posts: 1,571	Well these people were blindsided and attacked in a flash seeing a loved one shot and then he fled, they probably did not really have a great look at the perpetrator and would be in shock, it is probable he changed appearance for the crimes by doing things like wearing wigs etc. The one sketch that was used actually looks more like Leonard Cohen than it does Berkowitz.

05-23-2008, 02:53 PM	#7
justins5256 Member Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 08, 2002 Posts: 3,866	I'm pretty sure this wasn't mentioned directly in the UM segment, but try googling "The Process Church of Final Judgment". This is the Satanic group that some believe were behind the Son of Sam murders.

07-28-2009, 03:23 PM	#9
Mastermind Member Senior Member Join Date: Jul 16, 2008 Posts: 1,843	I could be wrong about this, but isn't the Son of Sam case still considered open and being investigated by NYPD for other suspects?

07-28-2009, 03:37 PM	#10
Frank Cannon Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Jul 27, 2009 Location: New England Posts: 10	It's open in the city of Yonkers. I'm also pretty sure the D.A. of Queens considered it still open. For me, it's not just that the composites were different. It's that one looks exactly like another suspect in the case, someone who was close to Berkowitz, as well as just happened to be the real life "Son of Sam" Carr.

08-25-2009, 11:28 AM	#12
Eibon Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Mar 11, 2004 Location: Posts: 16	"try googling "The Process Church of Final Judgment". This is the Satanic group that some believe were behind the Son of Sam murders." It was actually an offshoot of the Process, something called "4P" that is alleged to have something to do with the murders. A new book on the Process was released a few months ago - the Process never had anything to do with any of this.

08-28-2009, 08:52 AM	#13
Mysteryphile I wonder what happened to her. Frequent Poster Join Date: Jun 02, 2009 Location: England via Iowa Posts: 320	But if there were a group involved, or Carr...why not say they were involved? Why is he (supposedly) taking the rap for the whole thing? Doesn't make sense to me that he would keep silent...especially all these years later.

08-29-2009, 04:44 PM	#15
Arnold_OldSchool Member Forum Regular Join Date: Jul 16, 2006 Posts: 681	WOW...does this ever have alot of side stories to go to it.... The US experimented with brainwashing during the Korean War, and later Operation "Midnight Climax" came about where the government experimented with LSD as a mind control drug. These 2 experiments have been linked to numberous assassinations including RFK as Sirhan Sirhan was "programmed" to kill RFK ...also the "Son of Sam" David Berkowitz admitted to doing LSD while in the army and speculation was made by some that he indeed was programmed as well... Of course "Son of Sam" is part of a bigger Conspiracy... not only was he not the triggerman for all of the murders pegged to him (the others were members of his Satanic Cult but.... Berkowitz had information about murders that happened across the country(Arliss Perry)... and speculation was his cult "The Process Church of Final Judgment" was connected to the Manson Family murders... http://labyrinth13.com/Process.htm ... and the Zodiac murders John Carr (aka John Wheaties) was the Son of the owner of the dog who Berkowitz claimed told him to kill, and alot of evidence points to Carr as the main culprit of SOS murders. Carr committed "Suicide" via shotgun blast with NY SS and 666 carved into his hands Others have traced the Son of Sam cult all the way back to the Comedian Fatty Arbuckle rape/murder of Virgina Rappe back in the 20's or 30's..... And still others feel the SOS cult is connected to the Freemasons and Illuminati...so they programmed Lynette Fromme a SOS cult member to kill President Ford (she failed obviously) which would put Rockefeller in as President and Rockefeller is supposedly a well known Mason and Illuminati member