Solomon's Final Rant (4/19/08) Discussion: Why Good Times Is NOT a Spin-Off of Maude! - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Pavan · 04-19-2008, 12:12 PM

Please read:

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/blog/20...inal-rant.html

... then discuss this final rant.

CJ800 · 04-19-2008, 01:15 PM

Thats just YOUR opinion
What makes you so right
It WAS and ALWAYS will be a SPIN-OFF

Jude The Obscure · 04-19-2008, 01:21 PM

Nice argument and logic. too bad we can't hear Eric Monte's views or even the late Mike Evans, both of whom co-created the show. I do know in one episode Florida referenced having previously being a housekeeper. But of course, she never says anything about Maude or New York. A few sentences in episode 1 could have taken care of a lot of debate. Also the Evans family makes it out to seem that they have been living in that urban housing project for YEARS. So how can the characters been in NY previously? You know, I once disagreed with Sol, but the more you think about it, the more logical his reasoning becomes. I settle the matter by saying Good Times is a quasi-spinoff. Sort of like how Mama's Family is a quasi-spinoff of The Family sketches on Carol Burnett.

JulieSomoski · 04-19-2008, 01:32 PM

Wow, Solomon, I can't beliee your weekly rants are coming to an end. I can honestly say, you've changed my Saturday's forever-LOL. You've definitely done a great job on them. This one is no different.

For the most part, I've usually agreed with what you've had to say. If I were to watch Maude, and then watch Good Times, not knowing anything about the two shows, I would easily say one was a spinoff of the other. But, you've definitely proven your facts on this one. I think Good Times was intentionally supposed to be a spinoff of Maude, but with the retooling, it just turned out to be an entirely different show. Like you mentioned, the location and characters changed quite a lot. I would agree with you, that at heart, Good Times was not a spinoff of Maude. But, since Florida was actually "spun off" onto her own show, that would make it more of a semi-spinoff.

You could say the same thing for All in the Family and Maude, too. Maude was Edith's cousin only for 2 episodes on AITF, but once she was spunoff onto Maude, we never heard of Edith on the show, and things were completely different.

TVFactFan · 04-19-2008, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jude86

Nice argument and logic. too bad we can't hear Eric Monte's views or even the late Mike Evans, both of whom co-created the show. I do know in one episode Florida referenced having previously being a housekeeper. But of course, she never says anything about Maude or New York. A few sentences in episode 1 could have taken care of a lot of debate. Also the Evans family makes it out to seem that they have been living in that urban housing project for YEARS. So how can the characters been in NY previously? You know, I once disagreed with Sol, but the more you think about it, the more logical his reasoning becomes. I settle the matter by saying Good Times is a quasi-spinoff. Sort of like how Mama's Family is a quasi-spinoff of The Family sketches on Carol Burnett.

Yup, and when florida said she was a maid she never said where-lol

Brian Damage · 04-19-2008, 08:29 PM

Sorry Solomon...Norman Lear said it was a spinoff.

Mr. Television · 04-19-2008, 08:35 PM

We've come full circle.

TVFactFan · 04-19-2008, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Damage

Sorry Solomon...Norman Lear said it was a spinoff.

Well he didn't say why so the debate will remain alive-lol

Brieannas21 · 04-19-2008, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Damage

Sorry Solomon...Norman Lear said it was a spinoff.

Brian you and I see eye to eye on the subject. It's great to know that you haven't gone over to the dark side LOL. Good Times is a spin-off and it will always remain a spin-off.

TVFactFan · 04-19-2008, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brieannas21

Brian you and I see eye to eye on the subject. It's great to know that you haven't gone over to the dark side LOL. Good Times is a spin-off and it will always remain a spin-off.

Oh now you want to read the rants-lol

Brieannas21 · 04-19-2008, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingofTVResearch

Oh now you want to read the rants-lol

I've read a few in the past, I just couldn't relate to some so I didn't post anything.

JT · 04-19-2008, 11:29 PM

"Good Times" was planned as a "Maude" spin-off. The end result had lots of retooling and revisioning, but in the end, IMO, it still qualifies as a spin-off. I think it fits into the same category as "Mama's Family" with "The Carol Burnett Show." I mean, the producers of "Good Times" obviously didn't pull the show's premise out of their asses. The entire thing was based on the Florida character.

In all due respect, I don't think your last point really holds any weight. When the networks air things barely even matters sometimes, it's all about when the stuff was produced. Going by airdates alone, the last installment of the "Little House on the Prairie" series would be the December 1984 movie "Bless All the Dear Children," which was aired ten months *after* the official finale of the series, "The Last Farewell." Fans, producers, and most episode guides consider "Farewell" to be the last episode, even though "Children" was the last one to air.

boechsner · 04-20-2008, 12:02 AM

I was particularly interested in your statement that some markets began airing Good Times on 2/1/74. What markets? Where did you find this?

TVFactFan · 04-20-2008, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boechsner

I was particularly interested in your statement that some markets began airing Good Times on 2/1/74. What markets? Where did you find this?

some of the Tv guides I had back in 2004/05 started airing the show on 2/1/74. some of them was from the Midwest area

vtunie · 04-20-2008, 01:49 PM

The thing is, there are actually two kinds of spinoffs:

1) From the point of view of the real world. That is, a production company takes some of the secondary, maybe occasional, actors on one of its shows, and develops a starring vehicle for them. Because it's good to have the audience identify a little with what we've already watched, some or most of the plot elements in the original show are reused or recycled -- but there's no real need to be consistent. Examples: Good Times, Mork & Mindy, etc. A producer like Norman Lear would naturally consider this a spin-off.

2) From the point of view of the fictional universe. As above, but all elements of the plot are maintained as consistently as possible. Sometimes, in fact, it's the lead character who gets the spinoff as all his/her sidekicks are written out. Examples: The Ropers, Laverne and Shirley, Archie Bunker's Place. For a literary critic -- which category includes the entire audience -- this is the only true spin-off.

Solomon obviously took POV 2.

04-19-2008, 12:12 PM	#1
Pavan SO News/Reviews Director Administrator Forum Superstar Join Date: Feb 17, 2000 Location: Linden, NJ (Where Hal Linden got his last name from!) Posts: 26,814	Solomon's Final Rant (4/19/08) Discussion: Why Good Times Is NOT a Spin-Off of Maude! Please read: http://www.sitcomsonline.com/blog/20...inal-rant.html ... then discuss this final rant.
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04-19-2008, 01:15 PM	#2
CJ800 Hangin Loose In Honolulu Occasional Poster Join Date: Oct 29, 2007 Location: Honolulu, Hawaii Posts: 50	Thats just YOUR opinion What makes you so right It WAS and ALWAYS will be a SPIN-OFF
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04-19-2008, 01:32 PM	#4
JulieSomoski Roseanne Reboot - March 27! Forum Veteran Join Date: Nov 06, 2004 Location: Michigan Posts: 7,558	Wow, Solomon, I can't beliee your weekly rants are coming to an end. I can honestly say, you've changed my Saturday's forever-LOL. You've definitely done a great job on them. This one is no different. For the most part, I've usually agreed with what you've had to say. If I were to watch Maude, and then watch Good Times, not knowing anything about the two shows, I would easily say one was a spinoff of the other. But, you've definitely proven your facts on this one. I think Good Times was intentionally supposed to be a spinoff of Maude, but with the retooling, it just turned out to be an entirely different show. Like you mentioned, the location and characters changed quite a lot. I would agree with you, that at heart, Good Times was not a spinoff of Maude. But, since Florida was actually "spun off" onto her own show, that would make it more of a semi-spinoff. You could say the same thing for All in the Family and Maude, too. Maude was Edith's cousin only for 2 episodes on AITF, but once she was spunoff onto Maude, we never heard of Edith on the show, and things were completely different.
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04-19-2008, 08:29 PM	#6
Brian Damage I'm Rich Bitch Forum Icon Join Date: Feb 03, 2002 Location: What Ain't No Country I Ever Heard Of...They Speak English in What? Posts: 63,108	Sorry Solomon...Norman Lear said it was a spinoff.
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04-19-2008, 08:35 PM	#7
Mr. Television 22 Years at Sitcoms Online Forum Icon Join Date: Jun 06, 2003 Location: Somewhere you're Not Posts: 62,125	We've come full circle.
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04-19-2008, 01:21 PM	#3
Jude The Obscure Retired Eternal Member Forum Veteran Join Date: Dec 10, 2006 Posts: 7,519	Nice argument and logic. too bad we can't hear Eric Monte's views or even the late Mike Evans, both of whom co-created the show. I do know in one episode Florida referenced having previously being a housekeeper. But of course, she never says anything about Maude or New York. A few sentences in episode 1 could have taken care of a lot of debate. Also the Evans family makes it out to seem that they have been living in that urban housing project for YEARS. So how can the characters been in NY previously? You know, I once disagreed with Sol, but the more you think about it, the more logical his reasoning becomes. I settle the matter by saying Good Times is a quasi-spinoff. Sort of like how Mama's Family is a quasi-spinoff of The Family sketches on Carol Burnett.

04-19-2008, 11:29 PM	#12
JT Member Forum Veteran Join Date: Apr 29, 2001 Location: USA Posts: 7,219	"Good Times" was planned as a "Maude" spin-off. The end result had lots of retooling and revisioning, but in the end, IMO, it still qualifies as a spin-off. I think it fits into the same category as "Mama's Family" with "The Carol Burnett Show." I mean, the producers of "Good Times" obviously didn't pull the show's premise out of their asses. The entire thing was based on the Florida character. In all due respect, I don't think your last point really holds any weight. When the networks air things barely even matters sometimes, it's all about when the stuff was produced. Going by airdates alone, the last installment of the "Little House on the Prairie" series would be the December 1984 movie "Bless All the Dear Children," which was aired ten months after the official finale of the series, "The Last Farewell." Fans, producers, and most episode guides consider "Farewell" to be the last episode, even though "Children" was the last one to air.
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04-20-2008, 12:02 AM	#13
boechsner Member Senior Member Join Date: Oct 18, 2000 Location: Green Bay, WI Posts: 2,212	I was particularly interested in your statement that some markets began airing Good Times on 2/1/74. What markets? Where did you find this?

04-20-2008, 01:49 PM	#15
vtunie Member Forum Regular Join Date: Oct 23, 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 592	The thing is, there are actually two kinds of spinoffs: 1) From the point of view of the real world. That is, a production company takes some of the secondary, maybe occasional, actors on one of its shows, and develops a starring vehicle for them. Because it's good to have the audience identify a little with what we've already watched, some or most of the plot elements in the original show are reused or recycled -- but there's no real need to be consistent. Examples: Good Times, Mork & Mindy, etc. A producer like Norman Lear would naturally consider this a spin-off. 2) From the point of view of the fictional universe. As above, but all elements of the plot are maintained as consistently as possible. Sometimes, in fact, it's the lead character who gets the spinoff as all his/her sidekicks are written out. Examples: The Ropers, Laverne and Shirley, Archie Bunker's Place. For a literary critic -- which category includes the entire audience -- this is the only true spin-off. Solomon obviously took POV 2.