Maria Armstrong: Psychosis or First Degree Murder? - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Drakken · 03-27-2008, 12:51 PM

For those who do not remember this segment, it is the case of Maria Armstrong, who was suffering from paranoid schizophrenia. She stopped taking her medication, was taking drugs and terrorized her boyfriend, Ron Argenti, during her paranoid psychosis, even physically beating him. In the end, she bludgeoned him to death in in his sleep with a hammer, hid his body under a pile of cushions and fled through Arizona first with his van, then hitch-hiking her way out of the State.

I am fascinated by this segment. I cannot help but constantly ask myself whether she had really killed her boyfriend during a psychosis or if she had premeditated her murder and then faked her symptoms to alleviate her case. IHMO, this case stinks of first-degree murder. The fact that she got only 15 years is inexcusable given the fact that all the signs pointed to a capital offense.

I do not contest her illness, but at the time of the crime was obviously capable of distinguishing right from wrong. She was legally sane, and thus should have been prosecuted with the full weight of the law : She hid the body; she fled the scene immediately after the murder without watching back; she changed her name to Sandy; she was constantly evasive when approached by the policeman and the other witnesses in the Indian reserve; she tried to sell Argenti's van in which she fled the scene, finally abandoning it; she dyed her hair blonde to avoid recognition, and finally she refused to surrender herself until she was captured in an airport from an anonymous tipster.

All of this does not sound at all like a schizophrenic who would attack someone during a short psychotic moment. On the contrary she seemed perfectly in control when she committed the homicide. It looks more like a mentally ill, abusive woman who mistreated her boyfriend like **** and killed him when he finally decided that he couldn't bear it anymore. Argenti's body was even found sitten upright, demonstrating that he was sleeping sitting in his couch because he was so afraid of Armstrong attacking him during his sleep. Well, that is exactly what happened.

What do you think?

DarkDante · 03-27-2008, 09:23 PM

Speaking as a psychologist I think her bout with schizophrenia did contribute to her violent actions against Ron Argenti which resulted in his death. I do think however she should be held responsible for her actions because she was aware of her condition, abandoned seeking treatment for it and apparently was also seeking out drugs from other people which probably took an already bad situation and made it worse.

Her actions after Argenti's death makes it seem like while mental illness could've played a factor in her not being able to control her emotions resulting in the acts of violence against Mr. Argenti, her behavior after the murder becomes paramount as she concocted a well thought out plan of escape which would lead some to believe that this could've been essentially a crime of passion committed by a mentally disturbed person. I think Maria Armstrong's mental illness did play a part in these tragic events but I also think that Armstrong due to her actions in both not seeking treatment for her illness which could've prevented the tragedy from ever taking place to her systematic plan of escape after the fact, leads me to believe that she was very much responsible for the death of Mr. Argenti.

Todd Mueller · 03-27-2008, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkDante

I do think however she should be held responsible for her actions because she was aware of her condition, abandoned seeking treatment for it and apparently was also seeking out drugs from other people which probably took an already bad situation and made it worse.

I'm not sure what the legal ramifications are of what you said, but I definitely agree. Knowing you are sick and not being treated should not allow you to plead insanity later. That is like someone with diabetes not taking insulin and then going into diabetic shock and driving into a crowd of people.

Suffering from illness is one thing. Ignoring a known condition is something else.

crystaldawn · 03-28-2008, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkDante

I do think however she should be held responsible for her actions because she was aware of her condition, abandoned seeking treatment for it ....

I totally agree!

Drakken · 03-28-2008, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkDante

Speaking as a psychologist I think her bout with schizophrenia did contribute to her violent actions against Ron Argenti which resulted in his death. I do think however she should be held responsible for her actions because she was aware of her condition, abandoned seeking treatment for it and apparently was also seeking out drugs from other people which probably took an already bad situation and made it worse.

Her actions after Argenti's death makes it seem like while mental illness could've played a factor in her not being able to control her emotions resulting in the acts of violence against Mr. Argenti, her behavior after the murder becomes paramount as she concocted a well thought out plan of escape which would lead some to believe that this could've been essentially a crime of passion committed by a mentally disturbed person. I think Maria Armstrong's mental illness did play a part in these tragic events but I also think that Armstrong due to her actions in both not seeking treatment for her illness which could've prevented the tragedy from ever taking place to her systematic plan of escape after the fact, leads me to believe that she was very much responsible for the death of Mr. Argenti.

Cool that you are a psychologist.

According to you, did the behavior we know she has exhibited during and after the murder pass the M'Naghten rules? I am not a psychologist, but would I be a member of a jury, her whole behavior after the crime shows that she attempted to gain time to escape justice. By attempting to crudely dissimule the body and by changing her identity, she showed she knew that what she had done was wrong at the moment the crime had been commited. Thus, I think she was legally sane and her schizophrenia should be considered only as a mitigating circumstance.

What I find unbelievable, however, is that the prosecution bargained with her so that she may plead guilty to second-degree murder, instead of going for for first degree murder.

DarkDante · 03-28-2008, 11:50 AM

I'm wary about rendering any type of opinion in a legal sense based on an UM segment. My wife is a D.A. so we have many spirited conversations on the subject at my house quite regularly. I will say this though regarding Maria Armstrong - There was a great deal of sympathy for her both in the courts and also in the UM segment. Robert Stack on the original broadcast before she was captured actually made a personal plea to her to seek help for her disorder. This is probably the closest I've ever heard Stack showing compassion for a fugitive.

I basically agree with your assessment Drakken regarding Armstrong but there might be some mitigating circumstances we are unaware of that caused Armstrong to recieve such a light sentence. It was mentioned that Armstrong suffered with schizophrenia for many years and schizophrenia aside even some of Argenti's family seemed to have some degree of sympathy towards Maria Armstrong in the segment. I believe one sister referred to her as someone who would be a "good friend" when she wasn't symptomatic. So I dunno, Armstrong may have loaded up on character witnesses and used her schizophrenia as a scapegoat in order to recieve a lighter sentence.

As I said using just the UM I can't really judge how much of a mitigating factor was Armstrong's mental problems in causing this tragedy. Obviously the fact that she abandoned taking her medications and may have been exacerbating the problem with illicit drugs is something of a red flag as is her behavior after the crime was committed but then again we really don't have the whole back story on Maria Armstrong. There seem to be pieces missing here which could have cast her in a more sympathetic light which resulted in a lighter sentence.

wiseguy182 · 04-01-2008, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drakken

and fled through Arizona

I was thinking this was in New Mexico.

synthisislab · 05-05-2008, 06:26 PM

I think she should be locked up in a mental institution for the rest of her life and forced to take her meds. Any way you slice it, 15 years is certainly not enough for the brutal way that she killed Ron Argenti by crushing in his skull with a hammer.

browneyes106 · 05-09-2008, 04:09 PM

I think Maria should have been sentenced to life in a mental instituion even though she had ignored her illness and later killed her boyfriend. Not all people with mental illness are threats to society but people like Maria are and should be kept out of public.

unsolvedmysteriesfan · 07-03-2008, 08:41 AM

Another for joshypiano: it appears Maria was sentenced to 15 years for this. By now she's out of course.

sdb4884 · 01-01-2009, 08:24 AM

She was released in 2005, served 13 years according to the Arizona Department of Corrections. She had a few violations in prison including drug possesion and disobeying orders so she didn't learn her lesson during her first few years behind bars but wasn't in trouble for drugs since 1995 so maybe she is clean now and hopefully keeping out of trouble in the free world again.

MegtheEgg86 · 01-01-2009, 11:01 PM

I think the discussion here shines light on how we view mental institutions in this country. Here we have a woman who committed a violent murder. Now, I'm in agreement that her symptoms preempted or at least aggravated her actions, and also that the sentence was just as Armstrong was aware of her illness. However, being incarcerated and being "locked" in a mental institution are not comparable (in the strictest sense, anyway). On a basic level, the former implies she could determine right from wrong, the latter does not. But that's not my point.

I find it a little scary when words like "locked" and "forced" are used to describe a court order to a mental institution. Maybe it's just me, but doesn't that seem to imply that Armstrong (assuming that she cannot determine right from wrong) is being punished, or should be punished? Those institutions are in place for treatment and rehabilitation, not penitence.

DP1 · 01-02-2009, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crystaldawn

I totally agree!

I agree as well.

If I had been the boyfriend, I would have left that situation a long time ago. Those kind of things often end badly.

Orgazmo · 06-14-2009, 05:40 AM

Do you guys think this could be her?

http://www.azcorrections.gov/inmate_...ype=SearchInet

MissFit29 · 06-14-2009, 05:31 PM

That is her.

I still don't understand the attraction that Ron had for her. Did he really think he could "cure" her or something?

03-27-2008, 12:51 PM	#1
Drakken Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Dec 21, 2007 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 364	Maria Armstrong: Psychosis or First Degree Murder? For those who do not remember this segment, it is the case of Maria Armstrong, who was suffering from paranoid schizophrenia. She stopped taking her medication, was taking drugs and terrorized her boyfriend, Ron Argenti, during her paranoid psychosis, even physically beating him. In the end, she bludgeoned him to death in in his sleep with a hammer, hid his body under a pile of cushions and fled through Arizona first with his van, then hitch-hiking her way out of the State. I am fascinated by this segment. I cannot help but constantly ask myself whether she had really killed her boyfriend during a psychosis or if she had premeditated her murder and then faked her symptoms to alleviate her case. IHMO, this case stinks of first-degree murder. The fact that she got only 15 years is inexcusable given the fact that all the signs pointed to a capital offense. I do not contest her illness, but at the time of the crime was obviously capable of distinguishing right from wrong. She was legally sane, and thus should have been prosecuted with the full weight of the law : She hid the body; she fled the scene immediately after the murder without watching back; she changed her name to Sandy; she was constantly evasive when approached by the policeman and the other witnesses in the Indian reserve; she tried to sell Argenti's van in which she fled the scene, finally abandoning it; she dyed her hair blonde to avoid recognition, and finally she refused to surrender herself until she was captured in an airport from an anonymous tipster. All of this does not sound at all like a schizophrenic who would attack someone during a short psychotic moment. On the contrary she seemed perfectly in control when she committed the homicide. It looks more like a mentally ill, abusive woman who mistreated her boyfriend like **** and killed him when he finally decided that he couldn't bear it anymore. Argenti's body was even found sitten upright, demonstrating that he was sleeping sitting in his couch because he was so afraid of Armstrong attacking him during his sleep. Well, that is exactly what happened. What do you think?

01-01-2009, 11:01 PM	#12
MegtheEgg86 Member Forum Veteran Join Date: Jun 19, 2008 Location: The Volunteer State Posts: 5,156	I think the discussion here shines light on how we view mental institutions in this country. Here we have a woman who committed a violent murder. Now, I'm in agreement that her symptoms preempted or at least aggravated her actions, and also that the sentence was just as Armstrong was aware of her illness. However, being incarcerated and being "locked" in a mental institution are not comparable (in the strictest sense, anyway). On a basic level, the former implies she could determine right from wrong, the latter does not. But that's not my point. I find it a little scary when words like "locked" and "forced" are used to describe a court order to a mental institution. Maybe it's just me, but doesn't that seem to imply that Armstrong (assuming that she cannot determine right from wrong) is being punished, or should be punished? Those institutions are in place for treatment and rehabilitation, not penitence.
	__________________ "Why is she lying?, it makes me wonder. What is she hiding?, it makes me wonder." Go Vols!

03-27-2008, 09:23 PM	#2
DarkDante Member Senior Member Join Date: Jul 27, 2002 Posts: 1,569	Speaking as a psychologist I think her bout with schizophrenia did contribute to her violent actions against Ron Argenti which resulted in his death. I do think however she should be held responsible for her actions because she was aware of her condition, abandoned seeking treatment for it and apparently was also seeking out drugs from other people which probably took an already bad situation and made it worse. Her actions after Argenti's death makes it seem like while mental illness could've played a factor in her not being able to control her emotions resulting in the acts of violence against Mr. Argenti, her behavior after the murder becomes paramount as she concocted a well thought out plan of escape which would lead some to believe that this could've been essentially a crime of passion committed by a mentally disturbed person. I think Maria Armstrong's mental illness did play a part in these tragic events but I also think that Armstrong due to her actions in both not seeking treatment for her illness which could've prevented the tragedy from ever taking place to her systematic plan of escape after the fact, leads me to believe that she was very much responsible for the death of Mr. Argenti.

03-28-2008, 11:50 AM	#6
DarkDante Member Senior Member Join Date: Jul 27, 2002 Posts: 1,569	I'm wary about rendering any type of opinion in a legal sense based on an UM segment. My wife is a D.A. so we have many spirited conversations on the subject at my house quite regularly. I will say this though regarding Maria Armstrong - There was a great deal of sympathy for her both in the courts and also in the UM segment. Robert Stack on the original broadcast before she was captured actually made a personal plea to her to seek help for her disorder. This is probably the closest I've ever heard Stack showing compassion for a fugitive. I basically agree with your assessment Drakken regarding Armstrong but there might be some mitigating circumstances we are unaware of that caused Armstrong to recieve such a light sentence. It was mentioned that Armstrong suffered with schizophrenia for many years and schizophrenia aside even some of Argenti's family seemed to have some degree of sympathy towards Maria Armstrong in the segment. I believe one sister referred to her as someone who would be a "good friend" when she wasn't symptomatic. So I dunno, Armstrong may have loaded up on character witnesses and used her schizophrenia as a scapegoat in order to recieve a lighter sentence. As I said using just the UM I can't really judge how much of a mitigating factor was Armstrong's mental problems in causing this tragedy. Obviously the fact that she abandoned taking her medications and may have been exacerbating the problem with illicit drugs is something of a red flag as is her behavior after the crime was committed but then again we really don't have the whole back story on Maria Armstrong. There seem to be pieces missing here which could have cast her in a more sympathetic light which resulted in a lighter sentence.

05-05-2008, 06:26 PM	#8
synthisislab Member Forum Regular Join Date: Mar 11, 2006 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 552	I think she should be locked up in a mental institution for the rest of her life and forced to take her meds. Any way you slice it, 15 years is certainly not enough for the brutal way that she killed Ron Argenti by crushing in his skull with a hammer.

05-09-2008, 04:09 PM	#9
browneyes106 Member Forum Veteran Join Date: Apr 01, 2008 Posts: 6,097	I think Maria should have been sentenced to life in a mental instituion even though she had ignored her illness and later killed her boyfriend. Not all people with mental illness are threats to society but people like Maria are and should be kept out of public.

07-03-2008, 08:41 AM	#10
unsolvedmysteriesfan Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Nov 25, 2007 Posts: 218	Another for joshypiano: it appears Maria was sentenced to 15 years for this. By now she's out of course.

01-01-2009, 08:24 AM	#11
sdb4884 UM Meme Guy Senior Member Join Date: Sep 01, 2008 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 1,234	She was released in 2005, served 13 years according to the Arizona Department of Corrections. She had a few violations in prison including drug possesion and disobeying orders so she didn't learn her lesson during her first few years behind bars but wasn't in trouble for drugs since 1995 so maybe she is clean now and hopefully keeping out of trouble in the free world again.

06-14-2009, 05:40 AM	#14
Orgazmo UM Fan Occasional Poster Join Date: Sep 05, 2008 Posts: 74	Do you guys think this could be her? http://www.azcorrections.gov/inmate_...ype=SearchInet

06-14-2009, 05:31 PM	#15
MissFit29 Member Forum Regular Join Date: Mar 09, 2009 Location: Minnesota Posts: 526	That is her. I still don't understand the attraction that Ron had for her. Did he really think he could "cure" her or something?