Butch Cassidy And The Sundance Kid - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

scm80 · 02-09-2008, 01:52 AM

What evidence was presented in that episode that refutes the "fact" that they were both killed in a shootout with the entire Bollivian army in November of 1908?

I've read a book that claims that Butch lived until 1937. Turns out his real name was William T Phillips. I've never read anything to suggest that Sundance made it, however.

Plus, Butch's father claimed that his son's correspondance with him ended in the fall of 1908, which supports the notion that Butch (and Sundance) were both killed.

Cori aka ChrisSCrush · 08-15-2011, 03:12 PM

Geez, this has sat here unreplied since 2008 (hundredth anniversary of the shootout btw)? That's sad. I don't remember seeing anything including on UM suggesting Sundance survived after the 1908 shootout. As I recall, the UM segment showed a picture of "this faker from Spokane" basically debunking him because his bone structure was too different from that of Cassidy for even plastic surgery to have effected such changes. A manuscript has just surfaced supposedly supporting his claims. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44146181...1#.Tklso918NeU

As with "Anastasia" claimant Anna Anderson, it doesn't help that he was cremated. I wasn't aware that Butch's father said he didn't hear from him after 1908. I don't see how the claims from relatives who insisted Butch visited them in 1925 are so easily refuted. It would be interesting to know if the man who visited them was the "faker from Spokane" or someone else. I seem to recall the family had pictures of the occasion so this could be checked. Time for an update it looks like.

DP1 · 08-15-2011, 11:53 PM

Wasn't there an article about this topic in the news today? A book that said Butch Cassidy survived?

Cori aka ChrisSCrush · 08-16-2011, 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DP1

Wasn't there an article about this topic in the news today? A book that said Butch Cassidy survived?

Here is a good article with a lot of information in the form of links, etc. on William T. Phillips. (Sorry, but "faker from Spokane" just sticks with me better than William T. Phillips.) It looks like the History Channel said the exact same thing as UM regarding bone structure and the level of plastic surgery available in 1908. http://www.spokesmanreview.com/blogs...asp?postID=921

It also bears keeping in mind that in every case where a famous person disappeared or was presumed killed and supposedly later turned up alive, not once did the claimant turn out to be genuine.

TheCars1986 · 08-16-2011, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cori aka ChrisSCrush

Here is a good article with a lot of information in the form of links, etc. on William T. Phillips. (Sorry, but "faker from Spokane" just sticks with me better than William T. Phillips.) It looks like the History Channel said the exact same thing as UM regarding bone structure and the level of plastic surgery available in 1908. http://www.spokesmanreview.com/blogs...asp?postID=921

It also bears keeping in mind that in every case where a famous person disappeared or was presumed killed and supposedly later turned up alive, not once did the claimant turn out to be genuine.

I don't think Phillips ever publically claimed to be Butch Cassidy. It was only amongst friends that he claimed to be the famous outlaw. I too think they're facial features are completely different and they look nothing alike. But most historians now support the notion that one or possibly both outlaws did survive (although if Phillips was Cassidy is still up for debate). I guess the lack of any proof that they were killed other than Bolivia's word is why people believe they survived and returned to America. In all likelihood however, I tend to think they died in 1908 in the shootout.

Cori aka ChrisSCrush · 03-17-2014, 11:23 PM

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/201...an-about-face/

TheCars1986 · 03-18-2014, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cori aka ChrisSCrush

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/201...an-about-face/

At least he admitted his mistake. Wilcox is a dead ringer for Phillips. Never thought Phillips was a compelling case to be Cassidy anyway.

Cori aka ChrisSCrush · 03-18-2014, 02:02 PM

Yeah, I never thought Phillips was Cassidy, although he may have enjoyed implying he was. What I wonder about is Cassidy family members claiming they saw him years later. Maybe Phillips was telling something he actually knew.

TheCars1986 · 03-18-2014, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cori aka ChrisSCrush

Yeah, I never thought Phillips was Cassidy, although he may have enjoyed implying he was. What I wonder about is Cassidy family members claiming they saw him years later. Maybe Phillips was telling something he actually knew.

What's odd about Cassidy (and Longabaugh) is that no one ever verified that they died. They were unknown to the Bolivian soldiers who allegedly shot them in 1908, and were only identified as "American bandits". Plus there was never any evidence as to what actually happened to Etta Place, the Sundance Kid's lover, who allegedly accompanied them to Bolivia. But you would think that if Cassidy was alive and well but recorded "dead", he would have returned to the States or even his home state at some point. There's no evidence that he ever did.

Cori aka ChrisSCrush · 03-18-2014, 07:40 PM

A program that I watched the other night, an episode of Mysteries at the Museum, said the two bandits were found in positions indicating the one shot his buddy and then himself. I had absolutely never heard murder/suicide, but that the soldiers shot them. This program has gotten other things wrong and I wonder if they had this wrong as well, and where the information for that story came from.

I did hear of someone attempting to exhume the bandits to verify identities, but they got the wrong people and as far as I know then gave up.

This tells about the 1991 exhumation in Bolivia: http://www.gonomad.com/990-following...kid-in-bolivia

Purported Sundance exhumation, Utah, 2008: http://www.sundancekidhenrylong.com/

If they solve it, movie may have to be remade!

TheCars1986 · 03-19-2014, 08:25 AM

Yeah I've always heard the murder/suicide story was the account given by the soldiers. What's weird is that there was virtually no attempt at all to verify who the two American bandits were at the time. But it does lend a lot of credence to the fact that it was Butch and Sundance considering neither resurfaced after it.

Cori aka ChrisSCrush · 03-24-2019, 11:38 PM

More on William T. Phillips: https://www.deseretnews.com/article/...r-exposed.html

02-09-2008, 01:52 AM	#1
scm80 Scott UM Occasional Poster Join Date: Oct 21, 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 45	Butch Cassidy And The Sundance Kid What evidence was presented in that episode that refutes the "fact" that they were both killed in a shootout with the entire Bollivian army in November of 1908? I've read a book that claims that Butch lived until 1937. Turns out his real name was William T Phillips. I've never read anything to suggest that Sundance made it, however. Plus, Butch's father claimed that his son's correspondance with him ended in the fall of 1908, which supports the notion that Butch (and Sundance) were both killed.

03-18-2014, 07:40 PM	#10
Cori aka ChrisSCrush Member Senior Member Join Date: Dec 30, 2001 Location: USA and still trying to be proud of it! Posts: 2,071	A program that I watched the other night, an episode of Mysteries at the Museum, said the two bandits were found in positions indicating the one shot his buddy and then himself. I had absolutely never heard murder/suicide, but that the soldiers shot them. This program has gotten other things wrong and I wonder if they had this wrong as well, and where the information for that story came from. I did hear of someone attempting to exhume the bandits to verify identities, but they got the wrong people and as far as I know then gave up. This tells about the 1991 exhumation in Bolivia: http://www.gonomad.com/990-following...kid-in-bolivia Purported Sundance exhumation, Utah, 2008: http://www.sundancekidhenrylong.com/ If they solve it, movie may have to be remade!
	Last edited by Cori aka ChrisSCrush; 03-18-2014 at 09:17 PM.

08-15-2011, 03:12 PM	#2
Cori aka ChrisSCrush Member Senior Member Join Date: Dec 30, 2001 Location: USA and still trying to be proud of it! Posts: 2,071	Geez, this has sat here unreplied since 2008 (hundredth anniversary of the shootout btw)? That's sad. I don't remember seeing anything including on UM suggesting Sundance survived after the 1908 shootout. As I recall, the UM segment showed a picture of "this faker from Spokane" basically debunking him because his bone structure was too different from that of Cassidy for even plastic surgery to have effected such changes. A manuscript has just surfaced supposedly supporting his claims. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44146181...1#.Tklso918NeU As with "Anastasia" claimant Anna Anderson, it doesn't help that he was cremated. I wasn't aware that Butch's father said he didn't hear from him after 1908. I don't see how the claims from relatives who insisted Butch visited them in 1925 are so easily refuted. It would be interesting to know if the man who visited them was the "faker from Spokane" or someone else. I seem to recall the family had pictures of the occasion so this could be checked. Time for an update it looks like.

08-15-2011, 11:53 PM	#3
DP1 Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Nov 21, 2004 Posts: 394	Wasn't there an article about this topic in the news today? A book that said Butch Cassidy survived?

03-17-2014, 11:23 PM	#6
Cori aka ChrisSCrush Member Senior Member Join Date: Dec 30, 2001 Location: USA and still trying to be proud of it! Posts: 2,071	http://www.spokesman.com/stories/201...an-about-face/

03-18-2014, 02:02 PM	#8
Cori aka ChrisSCrush Member Senior Member Join Date: Dec 30, 2001 Location: USA and still trying to be proud of it! Posts: 2,071	Yeah, I never thought Phillips was Cassidy, although he may have enjoyed implying he was. What I wonder about is Cassidy family members claiming they saw him years later. Maybe Phillips was telling something he actually knew.

03-19-2014, 08:25 AM	#11
TheCars1986 #VLSKMS Forum Fanatic Join Date: Nov 22, 2008 Location: Maryland Posts: 8,617	Yeah I've always heard the murder/suicide story was the account given by the soldiers. What's weird is that there was virtually no attempt at all to verify who the two American bandits were at the time. But it does lend a lot of credence to the fact that it was Butch and Sundance considering neither resurfaced after it.

03-24-2019, 11:38 PM	#12
Cori aka ChrisSCrush Member Senior Member Join Date: Dec 30, 2001 Location: USA and still trying to be proud of it! Posts: 2,071	More on William T. Phillips: https://www.deseretnews.com/article/...r-exposed.html