A&E bio question (On-set color footage) - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Bill S. · 01-04-2008, 02:39 AM

While I was watching Jackie's A&E biography the other night, I realized that this was the special I was looking for that appears to have included some rare on-set color footage from a HM episode. The episode is "Away We Go," the first of the 8 musical Trip to Europe episodes from 1957 (which were shot in black & white). The scene in question is the opening scene, where the cast is preparing to board the ship to Europe, and appears in full color in this clip (Note: it is definitely not the 1966 remake, because Audrey & Joyce can clearly be seen, and are possibly even singing). This clip is shown only briefly during the special, but it appears to have been filmed on some sort of home video camera from a distance...possibly even from the audience, as it also seems to be on sort of an angle. Does anybody know what the story is with this footage? I don't think I've seen it anywhere else, and don't recall hearing about it in the past. If it is in fact footage that an audience member shot, it would be interesting know how much of the show was captured on film, and how A&E got a hold of this rare footage. Any info would be appreciated.

W.B. · 01-04-2008, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill S.

While I was watching Jackie's A&E biography the other night, I realized that this was the special I was looking for that appears to have included some rare on-set color footage from a HM episode. The episode is "Away We Go," the first of the 8 musical Trip to Europe episodes from 1957 (which were shot in black & white). The scene in question is the opening scene, where the cast is preparing to board the ship to Europe, and appears in full color in this clip (Note: it is definitely not the 1966 remake, because Audrey & Joyce can clearly be seen, and are possibly even singing). This clip is shown only briefly during the special, but it appears to have been filmed on some sort of home video camera from a distance...possibly even from the audience, as it also seems to be on sort of an angle. Does anybody know what the story is with this footage? I don't think I've seen it anywhere else, and don't recall hearing about it in the past. If it is in fact footage that an audience member shot, it would be interesting know how much of the show was captured on film, and how A&E got a hold of this rare footage. Any info would be appreciated.

I know about as much as you as to the origin, but . . . given Mr. Gleason's garb, apparently this was during dress rehearsals.

MrBand · 01-04-2008, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W.B.

I know about as much as you as to the origin, but . . . given Mr. Gleason's garb, apparently this was during dress rehearsals.

The footage originally surfaced on Inside TV Land: The Honeymooners in
2000. I suspect it was home movie film shot by Gleason's production assistant, Joan Canale Reichman. She is the only individual (as opposed to a company) credited with providing "additional footage" in the TV Land hour and is likewise credited for footage in the A&E Biography. This is just a guess, not a proven fact.

gotsmart · 01-04-2008, 11:55 PM

I've never seen this footage before but it sounds similar to the color footage that has been found for I Love Lucy. How was the quality? I'm guessing it was somewhat poor. I would LOVE to see the original Europe episodes with Audrey and Joyce. The fact that they are lost is something that has always bothered me because it would be amazing to see them.

treky · 01-05-2008, 04:07 AM

I remember seeing the footage in question, on that TV LAND special that someone mentioned, and from what I remember the quality was pretty good. Nothing to brag about; but as good as a home movie from the 50s.

Also; I don't know if anyone remembers, but back in the late 80s, there were 2 specials that, I think, were sydnicated; showing sketches of Jackie doing his other characters from "THE JACKIE GLEASON SHOW" (there was one with Reginald Van Gleason, that Audrey Meadows was in) and they showed part of a Honeymooners sketch from the "trip to Europe" ones. Come to think of it, they showed two. Only the 2nd one had them singing though. I remember it had Ralph and Ed in a row boat, lost at sea.

Bill S. · 01-05-2008, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W.B.

I know about as much as you as to the origin, but . . . given Mr. Gleason's garb, apparently this was during dress rehearsals.

Yeah, you're right. I watched "Away We Go" last night to be sure and Audrey wasn't wearing the same outfit as she was in that footage. The footage being from a dress rehearsal makes it even more interesting, hopefully we'll get to see more of it some time soon...

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBand

The footage originally surfaced on Inside TV Land: The Honeymooners in 2000. I suspect it was home movie film shot by Gleason's production assistant, Joan Canale Reichman. She is the only individual (as opposed to a company) credited with providing "additional footage" in the TV Land hour and is likewise credited for footage in the A&E Biography. This is just a guess, not a proven fact.

Thanks for the info, I thought I might have seen that footage somewhere else, but I wasn't sure. If Mrs. Reichman was credited for additional footage in both specials, then she's most likely the source. I would have loved to have spoken with her personally, but according to this article, she passed away in 2005. I wonder what will happen (or already has happened) with any footage like this that she had in her possession.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gotsmart

I would LOVE to see the original Europe episodes with Audrey and Joyce. The fact that they are lost is something that has always bothered me because it would be amazing to see them.

Well, they're not as "lost" as you seem to think...

W.B. · 01-05-2008, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill S.

Well, they're not as "lost" as you seem to think...

How true, how true . . . however, I can see, due to those episodes being of a somewhat different format than the official "Lost Episodes" or the Classic 39 (i.e. musical numbers), why they would've been left off the Lost Episodes pile as included alongside the 39.

VIDEOWACK · 01-07-2008, 06:08 PM

Even though the remakes of "The Trip To Europe" series were in color and certainly had their attractiveness, I'll take the 1957 originals over them anyday. They were more spontaneous (naturally, they were LIVE) and also because Audrey and Joyce were there, both of whom didn't actually have bad singing voices either.

Bill S. · 01-07-2008, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VIDEOWACK

Even though the remakes of "The Trip To Europe" series were in color and certainly had their attractiveness, I'll take the 1957 originals over them anyday. They were more spontaneous (naturally, they were LIVE) and also because Audrey and Joyce were there, both of whom didn't actually have bad singing voices either.

I agree, and the earlier ones being shot live really gave you an idea of how overwhelming it must've been for the cast to learn all the musical numbers and everything. I noticed that Jackie seemed to stumble over his lines a lot more than usual...he even made a joke about it at the end of one, after he forgot the name of somebody that was involved with the show.

VIDEOWACK · 01-07-2008, 08:36 PM

Right, he couldn't remember writer Syd Zelinka's last name to give him thanks.

Benno123 · 01-07-2008, 09:59 PM

In this day and age do you think part of the reason the original 1957 Europe shows have not been released is due to music rights? As silly as it sounds, and given the fact the 1966 shows have (and are in the process) been released, I still wonder if this is a fact. I haven't watched the shows side by side to compare 1957 to 1966 shows, but were the songs the same or did some change from one performance to the other? Between this and the already discussed difference between the other lost episodes and classic 39 could be why they haven't appeared.

Too bad, a couple of them I really enjoyed A LOT! I wish I could remember which one it was that I thought was one of the best from the 1950s that I've seen!

VIDEOWACK · 01-08-2008, 04:33 AM

There were some songs that were in the '57 series that weren't in the '66 series and vice versa. Most WERE the same though, and all of them written by Lyn Duddy and Jerry Bresler. It's possible that a music rights issue might be there given the songs that were done in '57 that weren't in '66. Also, many years have gone by now. Both Duddy and Bresler have passed on, and it could be that their estates are keeping a closer hold on their properties and maybe are not so quick to allow material to be put out.

Bill S. · 01-08-2008, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VIDEOWACK

Right, he couldn't remember writer Syd Zelinka's last name to give him thanks.

Yeah, that's who it was, thanks. I just watched that one recently, but couldn't remember the name...how do you like that...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benno123

Between this and the already discussed difference between the other lost episodes and classic 39 could be why they haven't appeared.

You're probably right. I have a feeling that if there were no musical numbers in these episodes, they would've been released years ago...it's not like they're in bad shape or anything. I think MPI's testing the waters by putting out the color shows first...and since they've been doing pretty well, I'd say the originals aren't too far behind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VIDEOWACK

There were some songs that were in the '57 series that weren't in the '66 series and vice versa. Most WERE the same though, and all of them written by Lyn Duddy and Jerry Bresler. It's possible that a music rights issue might be there given the songs that were done in '57 that weren't in '66. Also, many years have gone by now. Both Duddy and Bresler have passed on, and it could be that their estates are keeping a closer hold on their properties and maybe are not so quick to allow material to be put out.

You could be right about their estates keeping a closer hold on their properties, but they don't seem to be stopping MPI from releasing the color shows...or AmericanLife from airing them for that matter.

gotsmart · 01-08-2008, 08:18 PM

Will we see the original Trip to Europe episodes on DVD anytime soon? Does MPI own the rights? Also, who has the rights to the early Pert Kelton sketches? I really wish MPI would go back and re-release the Lost Episodes chronologically.

*ClassicPinUp* · 01-11-2008, 05:14 PM

Didn't Marilyn Gleason take some color footage of them during rehearsal? I know I've seen the footage and Audrey and Joyce were there but I'm not sure if it was done by Marilyn (was she even in Jackie's life in the 50's?) or someone else.

01-04-2008, 02:39 AM	#1
Bill S. Member Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2003 Posts: 1,112	A&E bio question (On-set color footage) While I was watching Jackie's A&E biography the other night, I realized that this was the special I was looking for that appears to have included some rare on-set color footage from a HM episode. The episode is "Away We Go," the first of the 8 musical Trip to Europe episodes from 1957 (which were shot in black & white). The scene in question is the opening scene, where the cast is preparing to board the ship to Europe, and appears in full color in this clip (Note: it is definitely not the 1966 remake, because Audrey & Joyce can clearly be seen, and are possibly even singing). This clip is shown only briefly during the special, but it appears to have been filmed on some sort of home video camera from a distance...possibly even from the audience, as it also seems to be on sort of an angle. Does anybody know what the story is with this footage? I don't think I've seen it anywhere else, and don't recall hearing about it in the past. If it is in fact footage that an audience member shot, it would be interesting know how much of the show was captured on film, and how A&E got a hold of this rare footage. Any info would be appreciated.

01-05-2008, 04:07 AM	#5
treky star trek fan Eternal Member Forum Fanatic Join Date: Feb 25, 2002 Location: Conshohocken, pennsylvania Posts: 14,490	I remember seeing the footage in question, on that TV LAND special that someone mentioned, and from what I remember the quality was pretty good. Nothing to brag about; but as good as a home movie from the 50s. Also; I don't know if anyone remembers, but back in the late 80s, there were 2 specials that, I think, were sydnicated; showing sketches of Jackie doing his other characters from "THE JACKIE GLEASON SHOW" (there was one with Reginald Van Gleason, that Audrey Meadows was in) and they showed part of a Honeymooners sketch from the "trip to Europe" ones. Come to think of it, they showed two. Only the 2nd one had them singing though. I remember it had Ralph and Ed in a row boat, lost at sea.
	__________________ the Clampetts are in a fancy Beverly Hills jewelry store. Granny points to a tray of rubies. Granny: "How much fer one o' them red diamonds?" clerk: "Madam, those are rubies." Granny: "OK ask her kin we buy one offa her." clerk: " The ruby I am talking about is not a lady." Granny: "Lissen, how she got them diamonds is her business. I'm just sayin' ask her kin we buy one from her."

01-07-2008, 06:08 PM	#8
VIDEOWACK Member Eternal Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Jun 30, 2003 Location: Long Island NY Posts: 339	Even though the remakes of "The Trip To Europe" series were in color and certainly had their attractiveness, I'll take the 1957 originals over them anyday. They were more spontaneous (naturally, they were LIVE) and also because Audrey and Joyce were there, both of whom didn't actually have bad singing voices either.
	__________________ Rob Honorary Raccoon

01-11-2008, 05:14 PM	#15
ClassicPinUp ***** Senior Member** Join Date: Oct 28, 2006 Posts: 2,246	Didn't Marilyn Gleason take some color footage of them during rehearsal? I know I've seen the footage and Audrey and Joyce were there but I'm not sure if it was done by Marilyn (was she even in Jackie's life in the 50's?) or someone else.
	__________________ Imy firefighter!

01-04-2008, 11:55 PM	#4
gotsmart The Office, Thursdays on NBC Frequent Poster Join Date: May 05, 2007 Location: Schrute Farms Posts: 341	I've never seen this footage before but it sounds similar to the color footage that has been found for I Love Lucy. How was the quality? I'm guessing it was somewhat poor. I would LOVE to see the original Europe episodes with Audrey and Joyce. The fact that they are lost is something that has always bothered me because it would be amazing to see them.

01-07-2008, 08:36 PM	#10
VIDEOWACK Member Eternal Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Jun 30, 2003 Location: Long Island NY Posts: 339	Right, he couldn't remember writer Syd Zelinka's last name to give him thanks.

01-07-2008, 09:59 PM	#11
Benno123 Jenna Fischer Rocks My World!! Senior Member Join Date: Nov 01, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,036	In this day and age do you think part of the reason the original 1957 Europe shows have not been released is due to music rights? As silly as it sounds, and given the fact the 1966 shows have (and are in the process) been released, I still wonder if this is a fact. I haven't watched the shows side by side to compare 1957 to 1966 shows, but were the songs the same or did some change from one performance to the other? Between this and the already discussed difference between the other lost episodes and classic 39 could be why they haven't appeared. Too bad, a couple of them I really enjoyed A LOT! I wish I could remember which one it was that I thought was one of the best from the 1950s that I've seen!

01-08-2008, 04:33 AM	#12
VIDEOWACK Member Eternal Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Jun 30, 2003 Location: Long Island NY Posts: 339	There were some songs that were in the '57 series that weren't in the '66 series and vice versa. Most WERE the same though, and all of them written by Lyn Duddy and Jerry Bresler. It's possible that a music rights issue might be there given the songs that were done in '57 that weren't in '66. Also, many years have gone by now. Both Duddy and Bresler have passed on, and it could be that their estates are keeping a closer hold on their properties and maybe are not so quick to allow material to be put out.

01-08-2008, 08:18 PM	#14
gotsmart The Office, Thursdays on NBC Frequent Poster Join Date: May 05, 2007 Location: Schrute Farms Posts: 341	Will we see the original Trip to Europe episodes on DVD anytime soon? Does MPI own the rights? Also, who has the rights to the early Pert Kelton sketches? I really wish MPI would go back and re-release the Lost Episodes chronologically.