Outright abandoning a show vs. slowly releasing the DVD's

[Dean Winchester]

I think when it comes to nine out of ten older shows on DVD, music rights aren't truly a factor (I can understand if there'll never be another Murphy Brown season), but for every Murphy Brown there are ten Bob Newhart Show's that use very little music.

If a show doesn't have a lot of music, is it really losing money on DVD, or is it just not making the mega-profits that shows like Lost, Grey's Anatomy, Heroes and "off the air" shows like Seinfeld and Friends do?

I notice a lot of companies dislike YouTube and they try to discourage against bootleg sites, but are the companies themselves helping matters by holding shows hostage? I can understand why a show like Night Court or Who's The Boss isn't quite given the priority treatment that a Friends or Seinfeld gets, but if you want to combat disgruntled fans giving up and going to the bootleg sites to purchase a copy, why not release a season every 15 months or so? If you're not LOSING money off it, why not just go ahead and do it? If a crap movie like Shanghai Surprise can get a "special edition" rerelease, then shows that aren't "music rights hell" sufferers should get released slowly.

What made me write that was that I read that Sony had some Diff'rent Strokes episodes (none of which were in the seasons already released on DVD) on YouTube removed. If they don't want people watching them for free online, then why not go ahead and release the rest of the seasons on DVD? it's a catch-22 with a lot of these shows that are older but aren't played to death in reruns. I think the companies should license episodes themselves on YouTube of shows they know don't stand a chance of having another season released of. I mean, the fans deserve to see the episodes even if it's not as profitable a release as Seinfeld.

[catlover79]

I agree 100% about the bootlegging. If Sony, Fox, Paramount, etc. weren't so stingy, maybe there wouldn't be so much of it.

[Kristen]

I agree, too. I'm guilty of downloading bootlegs, but it doesn't mean I wouldn't be DVD's, IF they were availible. People are gonna do whatever they have to to get their favorite shows. And these companies can either help them, or just sit back and do it illegally. Either way, it's still going to happen.

[friendsfan77]

A show should never be abandoned, ever.

What some companies don't realize is that some sets sell poorly for certain reasons. One example being MTM's 1st season. When that set first came out it was MAJORLY expensive, around $45-$55. When I read that it sold poorly in the beginning, I was betting that was why. I remember personally waiting a good while to buy that. Then you have Charles in Charge, which goes under the classic case of "later seasons were more popular." More people remember and enjoy the Powell years over the Pembroke season. As much as I loved the first season, it was no wonder why it apparently in Universal's eyes, didn't sell well. It was the least popular one.

And if they have a show like Murphy Brown or WKRP in Cincinnati, I think it's better off holding the shows until they can get out good quality releases with as few edits or no edits at all instead of abandoning the sets altogether as the series began to get music heavy or editing horribly or cutting the music scenes entirely, or even worse, replacing the music with crap that does not fit the ambience of the episode (aside from companies using syndie copies for DVDs, NOTHING pisses me off more than that).

As for YouTube, the companies shouldnt be shocked that people upload videos. I mean, if TVLand and other networks that are supposed to be faithful to their original purpose aren't airing the stuff fans want to see, except for tape trading, they have no other real alternative except for the Internet torrents and sites like YouTube. People are gonna do whatever they want to get their shows. I tape trade game shows because I know that because of who owns certain shows and the hell it'd take to get them on the air, I most likely won't see them on GSN.

And it's just wrong to compare every other show's sales to the more popular shows. Just flat out wrong. Like that article I came across about WKRP that compared MTM to The Office. OF COURSE SHOWS LIKE THE OFFICE AND GREY'S ANATOMY ARE GOING TO SELL MORE! They're both current shows that more people have seen!!! Any idiot in charge should know that ahead of time. I wish they'd compare shows on DVD that aired in the same decade. Comparing MTM to say, Sanford & Son or The Bob Newhart Show makes more sense. Not Roseanne. Not Seinfeld. Not Friends. Not Grey's Anatomy. It seems that some of the folks in that business need to use logic.

[bingbangbaby]

Originally Posted by Dean Winchester

I notice a lot of companies dislike YouTube and they try to discourage against bootleg sites, but are the companies themselves helping matters by holding shows hostage? I can understand why a show like Night Court or Who's The Boss isn't quite given the priority treatment that a Friends or Seinfeld gets, but if you want to combat disgruntled fans giving up and going to the bootleg sites to purchase a copy, why not release a season every 15 months or so? If you're not LOSING money off it, why not just go ahead and do it?

They say they don't want to release more seasons of some shows because first season sales were slow and they won't make enough money from releasing further seasons, yet they feel the money that others are making by bootlegging is enough money to take a stand over and try to put a stop to. Are we having our cake or are we eating it too? I understand that bootlegging is unacceptable when some other company owns the rights, but I just don't see how they think they should have it both ways. Either meet the demand or allow someone else to! All they'd have to do is release the rights to a smaller company.
I personally think abandoned projects have less to do with any of the excuses they've fed us and more to do with the fact that some of the older shows won't bring the guaranteed mega-million profits that some of the newer shows over the last ten years will. I've always hoped that once they catch up with releasing some of the "hot" shows from the last ten years or so that they'll return to some old projects. I hope so, anyway. I really do believe though that any show you want will be available legitimately and uncut at some point in the future...it's a high enough demand by enough people, especially as time goes on, and I just think it's inevitable. I can't believe it hasn't happened yet, but I think it'll come. Just have to be patient.

[catlover79]

Originally Posted by Kristen

I agree, too. I'm guilty of downloading bootlegs, but it doesn't mean I wouldn't be DVD's, IF they were availible. People are gonna do whatever they have to to get their favorite shows. And these companies can either help them, or just sit back and do it illegally. Either way, it's still going to happen.

Well said, my friend!!

[Dean Winchester]

Originally Posted by Kristen

I agree, too. I'm guilty of downloading bootlegs, but it doesn't mean I wouldn't be DVD's, IF they were availible. People are gonna do whatever they have to to get their favorite shows. And these companies can either help them, or just sit back and do it illegally. Either way, it's still going to happen.

I agree. Awhile back I downloaded a number of "Facts Of Life" episodes that were available through a fan message board. I mean, yes, it was illegal but it also is one of my favorite shows of all-time. I probably have about 30 downloaded episodes that aren't on DVD yet. If Sony releases more of the show, I'll get the DVD's, but those downloaded N@N/USA airings are enough to tide me over until the real deal.

However, I must say that the quality of the bootleg sites are pretty bad and make you appreciate the authentic releases. My friend leant me his Maude bootleg that he bought from a said site to copy, and the episodes were in bad shape for the most part, they were well-worn TV Land recordings. But nonetheless, as a Bea Arthur fan, these crappy quality recordings suffice until Sony decides to officially release more of the series.

[Dean Winchester]

Originally Posted by bingbangbaby

They say they don't want to release more seasons of some shows because first season sales were slow and they won't make enough money from releasing further seasons, yet they feel the money that others are making by bootlegging is enough money to take a stand over and try to put a stop to. Are we having our cake or are we eating it too? I understand that bootlegging is unacceptable when some other company owns the rights, but I just don't see how they think they should have it both ways. Either meet the demand or allow someone else to! All they'd have to do is release the rights to a smaller company.
I personally think abandoned projects have less to do with any of the excuses they've fed us and more to do with the fact that some of the older shows won't bring the guaranteed mega-million profits that some of the newer shows over the last ten years will. I've always hoped that once they catch up with releasing some of the "hot" shows from the last ten years or so that they'll return to some old projects. I hope so, anyway. I really do believe though that any show you want will be available legitimately and uncut at some point in the future...it's a high enough demand by enough people, especially as time goes on, and I just think it's inevitable. I can't believe it hasn't happened yet, but I think it'll come. Just have to be patient.

I agree. For fans of specific shows, it's a total catch-22, the companies won't release any more seasons, yet they don't want episodes popping up on YouTube and they want to discourage the bootleg sites. They have so much power in their hands and they're misusing it. Would you rather only make a $30,000 profit per season of Growing Pains, Who's The Boss, Diff'rent Strokes, etc.... or would you rather lose over a potential $100,000 because the fans got tired of waiting and went to a bootleg site and bought a bootleg since it's enough to tide them over?

About the last comment, I've held on hope for awhile to no luck. I thought once Friends would finish that Warner would go back to their lesser-selling shows, and they didn't. Now that Sony is finishing up King Of Queens and Seinfeld, I'm hoping they go back to their other shows, but I have a feeling they'll start five more series instead of going back to the shows that are stuck in a season 1 (or 2, or 3) rut.

[Kristen]

Originally Posted by catlover79

Well said, my friend!!

*blushes* Aww, thanks.

[BensonFan]

Originally Posted by Dean Winchester

I agree. For fans of specific shows, it's a total catch-22, the companies won't release any more seasons, yet they don't want episodes popping up on YouTube and they want to discourage the bootleg sites. They have so much power in their hands and they're misusing it. Would you rather only make a $30,000 profit per season of Growing Pains, Who's The Boss, Diff'rent Strokes, etc.... or would you rather lose over a potential $100,000 because the fans got tired of waiting and went to a bootleg site and bought a bootleg since it's enough to tide them over?

This is my sentiment on the matter also. There must be some middle ground. I once suggested these companies release a smaller quantity of the DVD first to see how it sells and then they can always release more later if the demand is there. But I don't know if I'm missing something here or not. It probably costs the companies big dollars to put the packaging, artwork, etc together prior to even putting the DVDs on the market. So let's say it costs (just a wild, random number here) $100,000 to release (for instance) Cheers Season 9. Well, if Season 8 only brought them in $70,000, they are obviously $30,000 in the hole. So they're afraid to take the chance if this is indeed the case.

But this is just me specualting. I don't really know what's all involved in releasing DVDs, but I do agree that if the companies want to discourage bootlegging, they need to figure something out. Once you release Season 1 of any series, you better plan on putting out the whole series!

[Dean Winchester]

Originally Posted by BensonFan

This is my sentiment on the matter also. There must be some middle ground. I once suggested these companies release a smaller quantity of the DVD first to see how it sells and then they can always release more later if the demand is there. But I don't know if I'm missing something here or not. It probably costs the companies big dollars to put the packaging, artwork, etc together prior to even putting the DVDs on the market. So let's say it costs (just a wild, random number here) $100,000 to release (for instance) Cheers Season 9. Well, if Season 8 only brought them in $70,000, they are obviously $30,000 in the hole. So they're afraid to take the chance if this is indeed the case.

But this is just me specualting. I don't really know what's all involved in releasing DVDs, but I do agree that if the companies want to discourage bootlegging, they need to figure something out. Once you release Season 1 of any series, you better plan on putting out the whole series!

I agree about smaller quantities. Some shows are big enough sellers that shipping tens of thousands of copies to Best Buy, Target, Circuit City, Wal-Mart, etc... makes sense. But like you said, if season 8 of Paramount brought them $70,000 when they shipped $100,000 copies out.... maybe they should ship $50,000 on season 9 to be safe. I believe there is profit to be made of a lot of these shows, the companies just need to know how to do it. While extras are nice, they aren't necessarily essential and if a show can save $25,000 or so by not doing a 10 min featurette, then so be it if it is the difference of getting another season.

I honestly don't see why the companies don't hold out for more online releases, stuff you can buy off Amazon or the official company website, but not at your nearest Best Buy. That way they know precisely how many copies need to be pressed.

[friendsfan77]

Originally Posted by Dean Winchester

I agree about smaller quantities. Some shows are big enough sellers that shipping tens of thousands of copies to Best Buy, Target, Circuit City, Wal-Mart, etc... makes sense. But like you said, if season 8 of Paramount brought them $70,000 when they shipped $100,000 copies out.... maybe they should ship $50,000 on season 9 to be safe. I believe there is profit to be made of a lot of these shows, the companies just need to know how to do it. While extras are nice, they aren't necessarily essential and if a show can save $25,000 or so by not doing a 10 min featurette, then so be it if it is the difference of getting another season.

Yeah, the extras are on season 1's MTM set are AWESOME. They've got CBS promos from 1970, Emmy win clips, a 90 minute documentary on the making of the first season, and a photo gallery, things like that. They did a great job on that part, really good. But I think that factored in the MSRP being so high.

[JulieSomoski]

But the thing with Murphy Brown is we did get a nice, good quality set. There were no edits, plus we got good special features. But, it didn't seel too well int he first place. So, if it didn't sell well, Warner obviosuly won't be rushing to get those music costs taken care of.

What's the deal with other abandoned shows, though? Like Who's the Boss. There's hardly any music in that show, and it's obviosuly doing well on ION, yet Sony won't give us another season. Same goes for Facts of Life and The Nanny. Other Warner shows, like Living Single, possibly the Drew Carey Show, Fresh Prince, and Growing Pains have little music, and were all highly popular shows, yet for some reason can't sell well.

Then there's the shows, like The Jeffersons, All in the Family, and Mad About You, that have 1 set sold per year, which is crazy. If they sell well, why not produce them at a faster rate? Possibly 2 or even 3 a year. We could have been long done with The Jeffersons, yet we probably won't have all 11 seasons on DVD until 2012.