Blacks on LHOP - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Madame X · 09-22-2007, 08:25 PM

I thought Charles was full of crap when he said Joe Kagan's family had been in this country for 180 years (Blind Journey). That would be around 1690. Well, I looked in to it and sure enough, there was an early history of blacks in America we don't usually learn about in school.

Here are some excerpts from the article I found. It explains some of the reasons the whites had such terrible attitudes towards the blacks on LHOP.

South Carolina was a slave colony from its inception. Although the first Africans arrived in 1526 as part of a large Spanish expedition from the West Indies, planters who later emigrated from Barbados established large scale slavery in the Carolinas on indigo and rice plantations. The black population outnumbered whites by 1708, and remained in the majority in the low country along the coast even as whites began filling up the back country starting in the 1740s. Black slavery was legally recognized by the Carolina Grand Council in 1669, and a number of specific statutes were passed beginning in 1686 aimed at controlling the emerging slave population. Among other matters, the code established a slave’s status as freehold property, which was a higher level of property than chattel. By 1696, however, the status of enslaved Africans in South Carolina had been degraded to chattel property in law and in practice. Enslaved blacks, mulattoes and American Indians could be bought and sold, and their children were enslaved for life.

In addition to defining the status of enslaved blacks, the 1690 code explicitly spelled out the punishment for those who struck a white person and for runaways. First offenders were severely whipped, followed by slitting the nose and burning "some part of his face with a hot iron" and even death for those who attacked whites a second or third time. Enslaved blacks found off the plantation without written permission from their master were considered runaways. Those who ran away more than once could be branded with an R on their cheek and might suffer the loss of an ear. Castrating male slaves and branding an R on the left cheek of female slaves punished a fourth offense. A fifth failed attempt could be punished by either cutting the tendon in one leg or sentencing the enslaved person to death.

That was the attitude at the time. No wonder Joe, Hester Sue and Sam Terhune, Solomon, Henry Hill (explosives ep.), and Caleb Ledoux faced such animosity.

Ireneparalegal · 09-22-2007, 08:37 PM

Great information. Sad to read, but definitely educational. I always wondered why slavery wasn't taught to us in finer details when I was in catholic school? I had my very first major lesson when ROOTS first aired in 1977. I had to read on my own and know the finer details of the atrocities of slavery.

Remember that episode with Todd Bridges? What was that episode abt? He wanted to be sold into slavery or something, I know it had to do with him wanting an education, but I dont' care too much for that episode, so I never watch it. I haven't seen it in YEARS.

catlover79 · 09-22-2007, 09:06 PM

Michael Landon was a very fine actor, director and writer but so many of his stories on this show were way off base historically. No offense to Moses Gunn, but I never cared for the Joe Kagan saga.

Madame X · 09-22-2007, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ireneparalegal

Remember that episode with Todd Bridges? What was that episode abt? He wanted to be sold into slavery or something, I know it had to do with him wanting an education, but I dont' care too much for that episode, so I never watch it. I haven't seen it in YEARS.

Yeah, that was "The Wisdom of Solomon," season 3. He ran away and went to school to become something better. He stayed with the Ingalls'. Then his big brother came to fetch him and laid a guilt trip about breaking his mother's heart and how he would never amount to anything in a white world. There was that wonderful and tearful scene when he went to the schoolhouse to say thank you and good bye to Miss Beadle and his friends. Todd was a great little actor!

Ireneparalegal · 09-22-2007, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catlover79

Michael Landon was a very fine actor, director and writer but so many of his stories on this show were way off base historically. No offense to Moses Gunn, but I never cared for the Joe Kagan saga.

Funny, I too didn't care too much for the Joe Kagan character and/or any storylines related to him. God, is it terrible that Moses Gunn played two characaters (Carl on Good Times - Joe Kagan on LHOTP) and I found them both awful?

catlover79 · 09-22-2007, 09:13 PM

I did like Moses Gunn in a Kung Fu episode from 1973 entitled "The Stone". I'm biased because in the same episode Gregory Sierra played a romantic hero.

Kung Fu is on DVD, and I think you'd enjoy this episode, Irene - it's from the first season. However, I was always puzzled that Gregory Sierra's character was Armenian.

Anyway, here Moses' character IS a slave who escaped from his cruel master. Both men cross paths with each other and with David Carradine's Caine.

Getting back to LHOP & GT, I think I'd rather see him as Carl than Kagan!!

Ireneparalegal · 09-22-2007, 09:17 PM

I so loved to watch Kung-Fu when it first aired. I had a major crush on David Carradine. Looking at him now, I am glad my crush ended early.

I totally forgot abt that episode with Moses. Man, I really need to get back into Kung-Fu. There are waaaaay too many shows I haven't seen in so damn long. YEARS!!!!!!!

Moses just rubbed me the wrong way. I get the feeling he plays the same type of character most of the time, he just has a different name each time.

Madame X · 09-22-2007, 09:43 PM

I don't care for Moses Gunn either. I never knew what Hester Sue saw in Joe Kagan.

Ireneparalegal · 09-22-2007, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madame X

I don't care for Moses Gunn either. I never knew what Hester Sue saw in Joe Kagan.

He was the only black man around.

I loved how you posted above in your first post abt Charles being full of crap when he mentioned Joe Kagan's family.

I reread that post and it just STOOD OUT to me how you stated that.

ThomasE · 10-08-2007, 11:03 PM

I liked the Joe Kagan Storylines with the exception of his debut episode when he was boxing. I liked the other episode. I would love how he would bring his head low and look at you with his eyes big like he was intimidating or about to laugh at you like you were crazy. LOL.

catlover79 · 10-09-2007, 12:04 AM

Did anyone else ever see the movie Aaron Loves Angela? The movie starred Irene Cara (pre-Fame) and Kevin Hooks (pre-White Shadow), with Moses Gunn as Kevin Hooks' father. That movie made no sense and had plot holes bigger than swiss cheese. The one redeeming factor was a beautiful soundtrack by Jose Feliciano - I'm looking out for some of those songs. In any case, Moses Gunn was his usual screen self - Carl/Joe blended together.

ThomasE · 10-09-2007, 12:07 AM

I should go and check it out. Thanks!

Ireneparalegal · 10-14-2007, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catlover79

Did anyone else ever see the movie Aaron Loves Angela? The movie starred Irene Cara (pre-Fame) and Kevin Hooks (pre-White Shadow), with Moses Gunn as Kevin Hooks' father. That movie made no sense and had plot holes bigger than swiss cheese. The one redeeming factor was a beautiful soundtrack by Jose Feliciano - I'm looking out for some of those songs. In any case, Moses Gunn was his usual screen self - Carl/Joe blended together.

"...plot holes bigger than swiss cheese."

catlover79 · 10-14-2007, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ireneparalegal

"...plot holes bigger than swiss cheese."

Irene, read these comments...they echo my own opinion 100%. I couldn't have said it any better. When the movie was over, I was just going, "HUH?!?!!"

http://imdb.com/title/tt0072596/usercomments

Ireneparalegal · 10-15-2007, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catlover79

Irene, read these comments...they echo my own opinion 100%. I couldn't have said it any better. When the movie was over, I was just going, "HUH?!?!!"

http://imdb.com/title/tt0072596/usercomments

I read the whole thing and I

as the person who made the review posted a lot of "why's"

Damn, never have I ever read a review where there were waaaay too many questions asked abt the movie.

Reading it gave me a headache too. I can imagine how the movie left you feeling.

09-22-2007, 08:25 PM	#1
Madame X Member Senior Member Join Date: Sep 15, 2006 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,831	Blacks on LHOP I thought Charles was full of crap when he said Joe Kagan's family had been in this country for 180 years (Blind Journey). That would be around 1690. Well, I looked in to it and sure enough, there was an early history of blacks in America we don't usually learn about in school. Here are some excerpts from the article I found. It explains some of the reasons the whites had such terrible attitudes towards the blacks on LHOP. South Carolina was a slave colony from its inception. Although the first Africans arrived in 1526 as part of a large Spanish expedition from the West Indies, planters who later emigrated from Barbados established large scale slavery in the Carolinas on indigo and rice plantations. The black population outnumbered whites by 1708, and remained in the majority in the low country along the coast even as whites began filling up the back country starting in the 1740s. Black slavery was legally recognized by the Carolina Grand Council in 1669, and a number of specific statutes were passed beginning in 1686 aimed at controlling the emerging slave population. Among other matters, the code established a slave’s status as freehold property, which was a higher level of property than chattel. By 1696, however, the status of enslaved Africans in South Carolina had been degraded to chattel property in law and in practice. Enslaved blacks, mulattoes and American Indians could be bought and sold, and their children were enslaved for life. In addition to defining the status of enslaved blacks, the 1690 code explicitly spelled out the punishment for those who struck a white person and for runaways. First offenders were severely whipped, followed by slitting the nose and burning "some part of his face with a hot iron" and even death for those who attacked whites a second or third time. Enslaved blacks found off the plantation without written permission from their master were considered runaways. Those who ran away more than once could be branded with an R on their cheek and might suffer the loss of an ear. Castrating male slaves and branding an R on the left cheek of female slaves punished a fourth offense. A fifth failed attempt could be punished by either cutting the tendon in one leg or sentencing the enslaved person to death. That was the attitude at the time. No wonder Joe, Hester Sue and Sam Terhune, Solomon, Henry Hill (explosives ep.), and Caleb Ledoux faced such animosity.

09-22-2007, 08:37 PM	#2
Ireneparalegal LEGAL SPICE ;) Forum Legend Join Date: Jul 25, 2005 Location: OXNARD, CA - WHERE THE DALLAS COWBOYS TRAIN & PRACTICE Posts: 38,691	Great information. Sad to read, but definitely educational. I always wondered why slavery wasn't taught to us in finer details when I was in catholic school? I had my very first major lesson when ROOTS first aired in 1977. I had to read on my own and know the finer details of the atrocities of slavery. Remember that episode with Todd Bridges? What was that episode abt? He wanted to be sold into slavery or something, I know it had to do with him wanting an education, but I dont' care too much for that episode, so I never watch it. I haven't seen it in YEARS.
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09-22-2007, 09:06 PM	#3
catlover79 God Bless Val Forum Addict Join Date: May 29, 2006 Location: Bewitched in Ohio Posts: 70,382	Michael Landon was a very fine actor, director and writer but so many of his stories on this show were way off base historically. No offense to Moses Gunn, but I never cared for the Joe Kagan saga.
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10-08-2007, 11:03 PM	#10
ThomasE Member Moderator Forum Fanatic Join Date: Apr 04, 2000 Location: New York, New York, U.S.A. Posts: 10,857	I liked the Joe Kagan Storylines with the exception of his debut episode when he was boxing. I liked the other episode. I would love how he would bring his head low and look at you with his eyes big like he was intimidating or about to laugh at you like you were crazy. LOL.
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09-22-2007, 09:13 PM	#6
catlover79 God Bless Val Forum Addict Join Date: May 29, 2006 Location: Bewitched in Ohio Posts: 70,382	I did like Moses Gunn in a Kung Fu episode from 1973 entitled "The Stone". I'm biased because in the same episode Gregory Sierra played a romantic hero. Kung Fu is on DVD, and I think you'd enjoy this episode, Irene - it's from the first season. However, I was always puzzled that Gregory Sierra's character was Armenian. Anyway, here Moses' character IS a slave who escaped from his cruel master. Both men cross paths with each other and with David Carradine's Caine. Getting back to LHOP & GT, I think I'd rather see him as Carl than Kagan!!

09-22-2007, 09:17 PM	#7
Ireneparalegal LEGAL SPICE ;) Forum Legend Join Date: Jul 25, 2005 Location: OXNARD, CA - WHERE THE DALLAS COWBOYS TRAIN & PRACTICE Posts: 38,691	I so loved to watch Kung-Fu when it first aired. I had a major crush on David Carradine. Looking at him now, I am glad my crush ended early. I totally forgot abt that episode with Moses. Man, I really need to get back into Kung-Fu. There are waaaaay too many shows I haven't seen in so damn long. YEARS!!!!!!! Moses just rubbed me the wrong way. I get the feeling he plays the same type of character most of the time, he just has a different name each time.

09-22-2007, 09:43 PM	#8
Madame X Member Senior Member Join Date: Sep 15, 2006 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,831	I don't care for Moses Gunn either. I never knew what Hester Sue saw in Joe Kagan.

10-09-2007, 12:04 AM	#11
catlover79 God Bless Val Forum Addict Join Date: May 29, 2006 Location: Bewitched in Ohio Posts: 70,382	Did anyone else ever see the movie Aaron Loves Angela? The movie starred Irene Cara (pre-Fame) and Kevin Hooks (pre-White Shadow), with Moses Gunn as Kevin Hooks' father. That movie made no sense and had plot holes bigger than swiss cheese. The one redeeming factor was a beautiful soundtrack by Jose Feliciano - I'm looking out for some of those songs. In any case, Moses Gunn was his usual screen self - Carl/Joe blended together.

10-09-2007, 12:07 AM	#12
ThomasE Member Moderator Forum Fanatic Join Date: Apr 04, 2000 Location: New York, New York, U.S.A. Posts: 10,857	I should go and check it out. Thanks!