Convent

[Smartboy]

For me, the episode titled "How Do You Solve a Problem Like Sophia?" was the beginning of the end! The episode starts with Sophia's friend whoo was a nun having recently died. Having had the experience of having Sister Agnus as a friend, Sohpia decides that she wants to become a nun herself. Now I am well aware that there are some orders of nuns that accept windows into their convents. However, let us look at this logically! Sophia migrates over three thousand miles from her home island of Sicely to start a new life. After reaching New York, she married a man who is also from Sicely. They have three children. He dies. These children, now grown, give her heaps of grandchildren. In her old age, Sohpia goes through dozens of boyfriends of various religions and ethnicities. Her Jewish friend from back in Brooklyn passes away. She falls head over heals for her surviving husband who is also Jewish. Although they still like each other, they come to terms with the fact that they do not work as a couple. He goes back to Brooklyn and is never mentioned again. Sophia goes through a few more boyfriends. We then learn the untold story that Sophia, had been in an arrainged marraige back in Sicely. She manages to get that marraige annulled before sailing to America. She goes back to Sicely to find her ex-husband, who happens to still be living, so she can apologize for any hard feelings that might still be around. We are now supposed to buy the notion that she, now in her eighties is going to add being a nun to her resume! Please! I found it typical and highly predictable that she would prove not to be cut out for convent life. It took good old Dorothy to come to the rescue and help her undertsand that she does not need to be a nun for her life to have meaning. In my opinion, after this, the show went downhill!

[rc.uk]

I can't disagree with you more. For a start, you have your chronology screwed up. The nun episode came before some of the stuff you mentioned. It was near the start of Season 6. After it, particularly in Season 7, there are some hilarious episodes! I'd argue that some of the best episodes of the whole series feature in the final season.

Also, Golden Girls was notoriously bad at consistency. At times, facts established in previous episodes are completely over-written in order to serve that particular storyline. I'm afraid that's something everyone just has to accept. I've been frustrated by things not adding up (how about the layout of the house...that never made sense) but I've realised that you just have to go along with it and enjoy the show for what it is.

Don't forget...it's TV. It's not meant to be real and believable all the time. If you want that, either sit at your window and watch the world go by or watch a soap opera. Sitcoms are there to entertain us and sometimes can go into the realms of fantasy (see the last two Seinfeld seasons, for a start). That's the beauty of them.

[AxelFoley]

Nice to see you here too rc.uk I agree with you, as mentioned before, consistency was never a strong-point for TGG, Rose's origin, the girls's age etc all proves that.

[Scoobiedoo30]

are you talking about when Dorothy mom wanted to be a nun

[Smartboy]

In response to the last poster, yes we are talking about the episode in which Dorothy's mom wanted to become a nun. Sophie is Dorothy's mother. If you read my original post, you, pretty much, know the circumstances. According to the last poster, some of the things that I mentioned happened after the nun episode. This might be the case. The point is, by the time of this episode, Sohpie was in her eighties and had a "lot" of life experiences! I was simply trying to make the case that it was "very" far fetched to her to think that she could add being a nun to the equation!

[Madame X]

Originally Posted by rc.uk

Don't forget...it's TV. It's not meant to be real and believable all the time. If you want that, either sit at your window and watch the world go by or watch a soap opera. Sitcoms are there to entertain us and sometimes can go into the realms of fantasy (see the last two Seinfeld seasons, for a start). That's the beauty of them.

We know TV is not real. Unbelievability is different from inconsistency. I think viewers can accept unbelievable situations in sitcoms, but inconsistencies show weakness and disregard in writing. I would rather see a far-fetched plot than to have the distraction of the girls' children always changing actors, names, ages, histories, etc.

I found it amusing that you recommended watching a soap opera to see something real and believable!

[rc.uk]

Originally Posted by Madame X

I found it amusing that you recommended watching a soap opera to see something real and believable!

Well, I don't know what your soap operas are like in the USA, but our soap operas (Coronation Street, EastEnders, Emmerdale etc.) tend to stick to real-life situations and the day-to-day lives of its characters. I can't ever remember an episode of a soap opera here which has moved into fantasy like American sitcoms can do from time to time.

[OH Nuts!]

Sophia, in the show, was in her early 80s, and maybe wanting to be a nun was a knee-jerk out-of-character reaction to traumatic situations occuring. Even if she had become one, I don't think she would have stuck with it. Thank god for her wonderful daughter Dorothry--a wise woman if ever there was one.

[Smartboy]

I am bringing this thread to the top of the page in an attempt to stimulate some more conversation regarding the episode. I find the various things that people have posted to be "very" interesting! My feeling is that this epiosde in general was rather forced and artificial. After the Mother Superior explains to Dorothy that her mother has got to go, it is up to good old reliable Dorothy to help her mother come to terms with this reality. In an attempt to help her mother understand that she does not need a convent for her life to have meaning she says, "you do Meal on Wheels, American Red Cross, you volunteer at the hospital". I found it typical and highly predictable that sensible, practical Dorothy would come to the rescue in such a situation. If you look down to about the middle of the first page, you will find a thread that is also started by me and that is called "The Convent Episode". The fact that I am not bringing that thread to the top is because I am the most recent person to post on it. I do not like to post two messages in a row on the same thread. In this thread, I printed a retraction to something that I said at the beginning of this thread. This has to do with the chronology of the episodes. There were two things that happened after the nun episode but that I thought happened before. These two episodes are the one in which Sophia reveals the existance of her first husband back in Sycely and the epiosdes in which she travels back to Sycely to make piece with him. I would like to apologize for not doing all of my research before starting the thread!

[Kristen]

OK, so you think Dorothy shouldn't have been the one to talk Sophia out of being a nun. But then how would you have ended it? Rose certainly wasn't that insightful, and Blanche probably didn't even understand why Sophia would want to be a nun the first place! LOL I see what you mean about "old relaiable Dorothy" having to be the one to talk to her mother, but I don't know how else you could do it.

[Smartboy]

I think that the last respondee raised some very interesting points. However, my point is not that Dorothy should not have been the one to talk her mother out of being a nun. My point is that the episode in its entirety was "very" forcred and artificail! If you read my original post, you will see that I am well aware that there are some widowed women who do become nuns. But for a woman was is eighty-five, been in and out of as many marraiges as Sophia had, had as many children and grandchildred as she did and been in and out of nursing home life to think that she is, all of a sudden be a nun to boot is "really" over the top! I think that it was "very" unrealistic for the order to even give her a chance! What I am trying to say is that the writers were really scraping the bottom of the barral when they came upon this episode. I think that it was topped only by the two episodes about the existance of her first husband in terms of how far removed from reality it was. The fact that good old Dorothy came to the rescue at the end simply added to how typical and highly pridictable the episode was.

[rc.uk]

As Rich said, have you thought about the fact that it might have been a knee-jerk reaction to losing her best friend, who was a nun? She might have thought that because she doesn't have many years left she could put something back into the community by joining the convent and at the same time, honour her friend? It isn't that unrealistic. An Italian acquaintence of mine who is in his 50s became a monk a few years ago. Maybe Sophia realised that she'd made a mistake once she'd joined the convent and decided to leave, which is perfectly acceptable. I don't see where you're coming from with this 'forced' business. Sitcoms - especially The Golden Girls - usually have an underlying moral tone or aim. This episode aimed to emphasise that you don't have to be a monk or a nun to do good Christian work. You can achieve just as much as an ordinary citizen.

[Kristen]

Originally Posted by rc.uk

As Rich said, have you thought about the fact that it might have been a knee-jerk reaction to losing her best friend, who was a nun? She might have thought that because she doesn't have many years left she could put something back into the community by joining the convent and at the same time, honour her friend? It isn't that unrealistic. An Italian acquaintence of mine who is in his 50s became a monk a few years ago. Maybe Sophia realised that she'd made a mistake once she'd joined the convent and decided to leave, which is perfectly acceptable. I don't see where you're coming from with this 'forced' business. Sitcoms - especially The Golden Girls - usually have an underlying moral tone or aim. This episode aimed to emphasise that you don't have to be a monk or a nun to do good Christian work. You can achieve just as much as an ordinary citizen.

Very well put. I think it also showed that just because Sophia dressed like a nun and went to live in a convent didn't necessarily mean that was her calling. It didn't change anything about her personality. I love the scene where she cheats at poker, and suggests they make a Monks of the Midwest beefcake calendar. LOL

Basically I think Smartboy is WAY overthinking this episode.

- Kristen

[Smartboy]

At this point, I have two things left to say about this episode. The first is that I am "very" amazed by the diversity of points of view expressed on this thread! The second is that it is coming on "Lifetime" in less than two hours!

[goldenguy1923]

don't overthink it. it's real simple like.