Color Honeymooners vs The Honeymooners

[RedPenguin]

Does anyone really care for the Color Honeymooners?

Yes, I know it's somewhat made to be like a carry-on of the original Honeymooners but, I don't know I can't can't really get in to them like the originals.

The originals to me just have more of a fun and older feel, also without Audrey Meadows and Joyce Randolph, I just don't feel the same way about Alice and Trixie as I did.

Does anyone really enjoy the Color Honeymooners?

I just don't feel they can really compare to the originals.

[Bill S.]

I've stated my opinion on these episodes several times in the past, so to save myself the extra typing, I'll just link you to an old post of mine:
http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/...22&postcount=6

[MrBand]

Originally Posted by RedPenguin

Does anyone really care for the Color Honeymooners?

Yes, I know it's somewhat made to be like a carry-on of the original Honeymooners but, I don't know I can't can't really get in to them like the originals.

The originals to me just have more of a fun and older feel, also without Audrey Meadows and Joyce Randolph, I just don't feel the same way about Alice and Trixie as I did.

Does anyone really enjoy the Color Honeymooners?

I just don't feel they can really compare to the originals.

I do! I do!

No, they're not the Classic 39, but I like to think of them as mini Broadway musicals. The acoustics of the auditorium and the thunderous applause really give the impression of watching a filmed stage production as opposed to viewing a sitcom. As for Sheila and Jane, they're not Audrey or Joyce, to be sure. Then again, Audrey and Joyce weren't Pert or Elaine. I think Ms. Meadows and Randolph are certainly the duo that owns the parts and made them their own, but I also think that has been influenced by the fact that during my childhood, they were the only versions of the characters I would see. For many of us, those classic 39 were the Gospel of the Honeymooners According to Gleason, and as I always point out, what other show lasted in constant syndication for some thirty years with only 39 episodes? So, for what they are, I enjoy the color shows a lot, though I think they were starting to run out of steam in the final season. The world was changing and I think the last episode, "Operation Protest" was more than a passing nod that Ralph Kramden was becoming a fish out of water.

[Honeymooners_Myspace]

Originally Posted by MrBand

I do! I do!

No, they're not the Classic 39, but I like to think of them as mini Broadway musicals. The acoustics of the auditorium and the thunderous applause really give the impression of watching a filmed stage production as opposed to viewing a sitcom. As for Sheila and Jane, they're not Audrey or Joyce, to be sure. Then again, Audrey and Joyce weren't Pert or Elaine. I think Ms. Meadows and Randolph are certainly the duo that owns the parts and made them their own, but I also think that has been influenced by the fact that during my childhood, they were the only versions of the characters I would see. For many of us, those classic 39 were the Gospel of the Honeymooners According to Gleason, and as I always point out, what other show lasted in constant syndication for some thirty years with only 39 episodes? So, for what they are, I enjoy the color shows a lot, though I think they were starting to run out of steam in the final season. The world was changing and I think the last episode, "Operation Protest" was more than a passing nod that Ralph Kramden was becoming a fish out of water.

I totally agree with you MrBand... I don't think it's a matter of "comparing" them to the older shows because nothing really compares to those... but I like them because they are a different... in my collection, it's really nice to have the three versions of the Honeymooners (The Lost, The Classic 39, and The Color)... they're just different, that's all, and I really enjoy seeing Jackie and Art do the musicals together...

and on a personal note, since I was born in the late 60's myself, it's really nice to see what Jackie and Art were doing around the time I was born, not to mention that I was born and raised in Miami, and currently still live only the next county over... but most importantly, I believe that the comedy was still hilarious in The Color Honeymooners... Jackie and Art showed us that they STILL had it!

[Honeymooners_Myspace]

Originally Posted by Bill S.

I've stated my opinion on these episodes several times in the past, so to save myself the extra typing, I'll just link you to an old post of mine:
http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/...22&postcount=6

That was a great post Bill S... I agreed with everything you explained... like you said, they're nice to watch, and they're not something that you would watch as often as the Lost or Classic, but the Color episodes are definitely nice to watch from time to time... it's a nice change, and I'm glad Gleason did them so that we would have another little twist in our Honeymooners collection to enjoy.

[AllThingsNancy]

Originally Posted by Honeymooners_Myspace

That was a great post Bill S... I agreed with everything you explained... like you said, they're nice to watch, and they're not something that you would watch as often as the Lost or Classic, but the Color episodes are definitely nice to watch from time to time... it's a nice change, and I'm glad Gleason did them so that we would have another little twist in our Honeymooners collection to enjoy.

I don't care for them...notice I didn't say I 'hated' them. I watched them once or twice and didn't feel the 'hook' that I do with the original show. I have never been big on theatre productions. Yes, I love a musical movie, but plays no. Gleason and Carney have always had the carisma when they worked together as they did in Izzy & Moe.

Audrey Meadows had something special to play Alice. She was beautiful, but her acerbic tongue and delivery couldn't be matched with any other actress that took the part of Alice. And the extent that she went to to originally get the part is legendary. Yes, she was beautiful and that's why Gleason turned her down the first time. But once she made Jackie realize that she was perfect for the part...the rest was history. Alice was supposed to be beautiful, but no one was really supposed to notice except Ralph, but of course the audience noticed. Sheila MacRae was attractive as was the whole MacRae family, but she just was not Alice to me.

I'm glad others enjoy the color Honeymooners and I'm glad they are available for the fans. But seeing that we got rid of cable, I don't have to worry about watching them. And until I get my health straightened out and get a job. My priority with be to get the Lost episodes on DVD first. They were, in my opinion the best. The ideas were at their freshest and Gleason was at his funniest.

Take care!
Carol

[Bill S.]

Originally Posted by Honeymooners_Myspace

That was a great post Bill S... I agreed with everything you explained... like you said, they're nice to watch, and they're not something that you would watch as often as the Lost or Classic, but the Color episodes are definitely nice to watch from time to time... it's a nice change, and I'm glad Gleason did them so that we would have another little twist in our Honeymooners collection to enjoy.

Thanks. I will admit, it is fun to compare the remakes to the original versions, but from what I've seen up until this point, I prefer the originals. I've said this before, and I'll say it again, I've always looked at the black & white shows and the color shows as two completely different series (like what "The Lucy Show" and "Here's Lucy" are compared to "I Love Lucy.") Even though with the Honeymooners, the characters remained the same, it was just a whole different feel overall. The switch from New York to Miami played a pretty big role in this as well...it's hard to imagine the characters being in a small Brooklyn apartment when their voice echoes and they all have Miami sun tans.

Originally Posted by AllThingsNancy

I don't care for them...notice I didn't say I 'hated' them. I watched them once or twice and didn't feel the 'hook' that I do with the original show. I have never been big on theatre productions. Yes, I love a musical movie, but plays no. Gleason and Carney have always had the carisma when they worked together as they did in Izzy & Moe.

Audrey Meadows had something special to play Alice. She was beautiful, but her acerbic tongue and delivery couldn't be matched with any other actress that took the part of Alice. And the extent that she went to to originally get the part is legendary. Yes, she was beautiful and that's why Gleason turned her down the first time. But once she made Jackie realize that she was perfect for the part...the rest was history. Alice was supposed to be beautiful, but no one was really supposed to notice except Ralph, but of course the audience noticed. Sheila MacRae was attractive as was the whole MacRae family, but she just was not Alice to me.

I really enjoyed this post, I couldn't have said it better myself. And you're so right about Audrey Meadows, I believe her sister Jayne said it best..."Audrey was born to play Alice." Not to discredit Sheila MacRae, or Jane Kean for that matter, but I find it very difficult to accept anybody as Alice and Trixie besides Audrey Meadows and Joyce Randolph.

Originally Posted by AllThingsNancy

My priority with be to get the Lost episodes on DVD first. They were, in my opinion the best. The ideas were at their freshest and Gleason was at his funniest.

I'm a pretty big Lost Episodes fan myself, but I just had to comment on this. The more I see fans expressing interest in purchasing the Lost Episodes on DVD, the angrier I get at MPI. See, you're new to the board, so you probably haven't heard much, if anything at all, about MPI's "plans" to re-release these episodes. Since the "Love Letter" sketch was discovered in 2004, this re-release is something MPI's been "working on." Yet, as of late, there haven't been any updates. On the current DVD set (which is highly overpriced for the amount of episodes per disk), you will find 76 episodes. Interestingly, the VHS collection has a total of 78. As if that weren't enough, in addition to those 78, there's actually 25 episodes that have NEVER been released in any set. Take a look at these links from my website for more information on the 27 sketches that are missing from the DVD collection:
http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/honeymooners/Stillost.html
http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/honeymooners/europe.html

[*ClassicPinUp*]

I’ve only watched a few and for me, that was enough. There were several reasons I found the color episodes hard to watch or enjoy. Naturally, the lack of Audrey and Joyce gave the show a totally different feel and to be honest I thought Sheila MacRae and Jane Kean were terrible actresses (and yes I gave them a fair chance). Then there was the physical appearances of Jackie and Art. Let me just start by saying I KNOW physical appearance isn’t everything and that it’s all in the energy and chemistry these two shared on stage. With Jackie looking aged and tired from all the weight he had lost and no doubt his heavy drinking catching up with him and Art who was at the time suffering uncontrollably with his drinking, looking heavy and just run down, that energy they had in the 50’s, in my opinion, was lacking and that made it incredibly hard for me to watch. I remember the first time I saw one of these color episodes, the first thing that came to my mind was “my God, where did all the magic of this show go?” Maybe some still saw it but I didn’t. Lastly the new “tone” of the 60’s episodes weren’t my thing but I realize some may actually have enjoyed that.
Please don't misunderstand me---I respect the work of both Jackie and Art but I do think Jackie should have known better. He had a wonderful show in the 50’s, a show people today still adore and IMO he should have left well enough alone and focused on something different.

[Bill S.]

Originally Posted by AndAwayWeGo

Please don't misunderstand me---I respect the work of both Jackie and Art but I do think Jackie should have known better. He had a wonderful show in the 50’s, a show people today still adore and IMO he should have left well enough alone and focused on something different.

I agree, a reunion special every few years or so (like the 1966 "Adoption" remake) would've been nice, but a whole series of hour-long musicals wasn't really necessary.

[RedPenguin]

Also, is it only me, or does the color episodes, really seem COLORFUL?

I mean sometimes it feels hippy or something. I mean I knew Norton was in to wild clothes, but all that purples and plaid and everything, is just like woah. Then the remake of Little Man Who Wasn't There was like, a weird green to me for a pool room's curtains.

Also, why is it, I've always noticed this, if you watch color from like the 60s or around that time, it always is like the color is bright and everything, then it's like when you watch something from today, it's like the color is more neutral or just not as bright.

I'm watching the Color Honeymooners and sometimes it's feels like an explosion of colors, that are like holy heck, and sometimes you see the colors of now of day shows, and it's like boring or depressing.

Why do the older shows seem to have an explosion of colors, sometimes the colors seem so bright, it's as if the cause issues with tint or something, and the new shows seem so boring with colors as if they are actually the old shows?

[MrBand]

Originally Posted by RedPenguin

Also, is it only me, or does the color episodes, really seem COLORFUL?

I mean sometimes it feels hippy or something. I mean I knew Norton was in to wild clothes, but all that purples and plaid and everything, is just like woah. Then the remake of Little Man Who Wasn't There was like, a weird green to me for a pool room's curtains.

Also, why is it, I've always noticed this, if you watch color from like the 60s or around that time, it always is like the color is bright and everything, then it's like when you watch something from today, it's like the color is more neutral or just not as bright.

I'm watching the Color Honeymooners and sometimes it's feels like an explosion of colors, that are like holy heck, and sometimes you see the colors of now of day shows, and it's like boring or depressing.

Why do the older shows seem to have an explosion of colors, sometimes the colors seem so bright, it's as if the cause issues with tint or something, and the new shows seem so boring with colors as if they are actually the old shows?

People were buying color sets and were anxious to see color programming,
so I would imagine producers went to extra lengths to be certain that they took advantage of all the palette possibilities. When the old shows are remastered today, the "pop" factor increases even moreso.

[The Great One]

I actually like all three versions of the Honeymooners (Lost Eps, Classic 39, and the Color shows) but I would definitely put the "Classic 39" in first place.

[Honeymooners_Myspace]

Originally Posted by Bill S.

I'm a pretty big Lost Episodes fan myself, but I just had to comment on this. The more I see fans expressing interest in purchasing the Lost Episodes on DVD, the angrier I get at MPI. See, you're new to the board, so you probably haven't heard much, if anything at all, about MPI's "plans" to re-release these episodes. Since the "Love Letter" sketch was discovered in 2004, this re-release is something MPI's been "working on." Yet, as of late, there haven't been any updates. On the current DVD set (which is highly overpriced for the amount of episodes per disk), you will find 76 episodes. Interestingly, the VHS collection has a total of 78. As if that weren't enough, in addition to those 78, there's actually 25 episodes that have NEVER been released in any set.

Hi Bill S... I understand your frustration, but I have an update for you with a recent personal story... I have had the set on VHS for the longest time, and just about three months ago or so, I decided to buy the entire DVD set in one shot (all six boxed sets)... there is one particular MPI distributor on eBay who sells the entire brand new six boxed sets of the Lost Episodes as one package price (well, at a very reasonable starting bid) including shipping, which if you end up getting it at the starting bid or near it (which I did), ends up being only $30 per boxed set INCLUDING shipping... that's the BEST deal I have seen so far for this entire set... if anyone out there wants details on this particular seller, please send me a private message and I will more than happy to give you the information...

anyway, when I was reading your post here (of which I quoted), I got confused because you mention that "Love Letter" is not part of the DVD set from MPI... however, in the new entire six boxed set that I received, 'Love Letter' is in Boxed Set Collection #3, Volume 12 to be exact as a "Bonus Episode"... after counting all the episodes in my new boxed set a few times to make sure I had an accurate count, there are 77 total "Episodes"... this is EXCLUDING any "Bonus Features" such as 'My Man Norton', 'Gleason's Honeybloopers', etc... I would then assume that 'Love Letter' must be a new addition to the MPI DVD set, and the reason why there are 77 total "Episodes" in my new collection, as opposed to the 76 that you had mentioned... so I just wanted to bring this to your attention, and update you... but you're right, there are those 25 episodes that have never been released in any set, so I hope that they will eventually get those out to us too...

Ralphie Boy

ps - for those of you out there that would want 'Love Letter' on DVD in addition to your DVD set that currently has 76 total episodes, I have a direct contact email to the customer service person at MPI (not the eBay seller I mentioned) that could take your order and get that one new volume/disc (Volume 12) to you that includes this episode.

[Honeymooners_Myspace]

Originally Posted by The Great One

I actually like all three versions of the Honeymooners (Lost Eps, Classic 39, and the Color shows) but I would definitely put the "Classic 39" in first place.

Hey Mike... I couldn't have said it better myself... I know that a lot of fans out there put the Lost Episodes first as their favorite of the Lost, Classic 39, and the Color, but the way I personally feel about it is this... I believe that the earlier shows (The Lost) was Gleason and the rest of the gang getting a feel for each other, and working on their timing of the comedy... you do have to admit that in some of the really early Lost Episodes, some of Gleason's timing on his, "One of these days, one of these days!..." toward Meadows was a little off, and didn't get the laughs that he expected (as compared to later shows)... in my opinion, all the writing was still pretty good in the earlier shows, and I love the situations that they were in, but in my opinion, the Classic 39 shows were flawless in all respects (acting, timing of the comedy, and the writing)...

I just think that all those years of doing the sketches on the Gleason show was, if you will, like practice for the Classic 39... now I know that some of the Lost Episodes were from the "What If" season of the latter part of 1956 into the summer of 1957, which would contradict my personal theory of the earlier years of being like "practice" prior to the Classic 39... but there is just something I couldn't put my finger on about these Lost Episodes that followed the Buick-sponsored season, which made them very similar to the feel of the episodes prior to the Classic 39 season... I believe this Prior Classic 39 feel was nailed on the head in Crescenti McCrohan book "The Honeymooners Lost Episodes"... they said:

These post-Classic Thirty-nine sketches are funny, often hilarious. Just like their immediate predecessors. But Strangely enough, in at least one obvious way they are more like the sketches that preceded the half-hour shows: back in use are Ralph's stock phrases and some Ralph-Alice shtick used in the variety-show version of The Honeymooners that were abandoned for the half-hours. And mysteriously missing--except once--is Ralph's most famous signature "Bang! Zoom!" It's almost as if the Classic Thirty-nine had never happened.

I LOVE ALL The Honeymooners episodes/sketches that Gleason ever produced, however I just believe and feel that those Classic 39 shows were, if you will, the "Platinum Collection" of The Lost, The Classic, and The Color episodes.

[Honeymooners_Myspace]

Originally Posted by RedPenguin

Also, is it only me, or does the color episodes, really seem COLORFUL?

I mean sometimes it feels hippy or something. I mean I knew Norton was in to wild clothes, but all that purples and plaid and everything, is just like woah. Then the remake of Little Man Who Wasn't There was like, a weird green to me for a pool room's curtains.

LOL!!!... I was thinking the same thing RedPenguin when I watched them for the first time... like you said, I thought the colors were so much brighter than even today's color television... with this very colorful showing, I truly believe that Gleason was trying to make a statement with that when he created these shows... I think it was quite obvious in the, as you said it, explosively colorful costumes that the actors and actresses were wearing... Gleason went without color with his Honeymooners show for the longest time, and I just think that he was trying to make up for lost "color time"...

This is the best analogy I can think of why he took this approach with the color... it's like locking someone up in a pitch black windowless room in a straight jacket for a month, taking it off of the person, and then throwing them into Disney World to do whatever they want for as long as they want... lol!... that's the best way I can explain it, but I think you know what I'm trying to say... anyway, good observation!