Any updates and/or your opinions on the Tommy Zeigler case? - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

johnnyangel · 07-22-2007, 12:17 PM

Just wondering any of your opinions on this case, guilty? innocent? Is he still alive? I have read somewhere tons of new evidence came up in his favor, what ever happened in that regard?

Thanks for all of your opinions and such!

crystaldawn · 07-22-2007, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyangel

Just wondering any of your opinions on this case, guilty? innocent? Is he still alive? I have read somewhere tons of new evidence came up in his favor, what ever happened in that regard?

Thanks for all of your opinions and such!

I've always thought he was innocent. As far as I can tell he is still alive and in prison. Here's an article with a lot of info on the case:

http://www.justicedenied.org/zeigler.htm

UMfan0682 · 07-22-2007, 01:29 PM

I've just finished watching this segment last night, and I'm really not sure what to think. It was very interesting the way Ziegler’s wife was found. Her hand was in her pocket, like the police said, she had trusted the person she was with. There is also plenty of evidence to sway me more towards his innocence. I had found a very interesting article that read he had been a key player in shutting down the Edgewater hotel, known for the heavy drug dealings and prostitute hangouts. Maybe it's possible the police wanted him out of the way. I found it very interesting that the tape was later found where the eyewitness had said he watched a police officer with his gun pointed toward the store at around 9:00, a full 20 minuets before Ziegler had called the police.

Again, I'm not too sure what to think. On one hand, he could have staged the whole think to look like a robbery/break-in and he really could have wanted the insurance money and murdered both his wife and parents, or he could have been a victim of foul play...

kadrmas15 · 07-23-2007, 08:40 PM

He didnt stage it, in my opinion, it is possible he did, but I do not feel he did. Why would he wipe clean some of the guns that were supposed to have his fingerprints but not others? Why was there the witness that was not called at trial yet had heard shots and seen a policeman with his gun drawn BEFORE those shots were fired? I mean, I am known to defend the accussed on here much to people's dismay, but I will tell you, Ziegler is probably the most convinced I have b een of a person's innocence profiled on UM except for Johnny Wilson whom I was even more convinced of his innocence.

However just look at Jeff Ashton and the BS he tries to give whenever he denies Zeigler, he knows his case is crap and if the Zeigler would get a new trial he would probably get acquitted. He should have never been convicted in the first place and certainly should have never been put on death row, I think we all can agree that an over zealous judge with a personal vendetta and an ax to grind got Zeigler on the row.

DarkDante · 07-24-2007, 01:11 AM

I've commented on this case at length before so I'll just say that I've always felt that Ziegler was not guilty.

kadrmas15 · 07-24-2007, 05:54 PM

Zeigler is still alive, he has been on death row for 31 years and I believe is the 4th or 5th longest serving death row inmate in Florida, Zeigler is now 62 years old. Zeigler's latest appeal was just denied recently by the Florida State Supreme Court and from what I have been reading his appeals are getting down to the wire, he still has a few legal avenues to go down but his appeals are winding down and he is getting closer to the end, so I think the only hope Zeigler has is to get a new trial ordered, the state supreme court will not do it so the feds will probably have to do it. If that were to happen than the state would have to decide whether or not to re-try Zeigler or the more likely thing they would do is offer a plea bargain to Zeigler where if he pled guilty to 2nd degree murder he would be sentenced to time served and released so that the state wouldnt look as bad and so they wouldnt have to compensate Zeigler for all the time he spent behind bars.

DarkDante · 07-24-2007, 07:32 PM

I remember reading on here from a long time member who lives in Florida (I don't think it was Justin but I could be wrong) that the state of Florida will never execute Ziegler due to some type of severe fallout if they did. According to this poster Ziegler seems to be stuck in limbo, he's not going to be freed but isn't likely to be executed anytime soon.

kadrmas15 · 07-24-2007, 09:40 PM

Hmm, well that is possible that they wont execute him to due to some legal stuff. However the thought that a person might be innocent I do not think has ever stopped an inmate from executing someone, but Zeigler is still alive after 31 years on the row because there is so much doubt as to his guilt that while the state will do everything in their power to not release him (the only way they will release him is if he is overturned in federal court and a new trial ordered) I know Zeigler has been saying he either wants to be released or executed.

I think this latest denial was very devastating to his case, I certainly hope he is not executed, but if the state doesnt execute him it will be because it would simply be too controversial for them to do so.

I say if Ziegler gets a new trial the state would either not re-try him and let it go or the more likely option is they would offer him a plea bargain where if he would plead guilty to 2nd degree murder he would be sentenced to time served and released. This way the state can let him out of prison without having to pay him any money for all the years he wrongfully spent behind bars and they can also never have to publicly admit they wrongfully convicted him.

Dislimb · 07-24-2007, 10:36 PM

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/...9&postcount=16

TommyZiegler · 04-23-2009, 04:05 PM

this cracks me up.

TracyLynnS · 04-23-2009, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TommyZiegler

this cracks me up.

Get back in your cell. I'll let you know when the needle's sharp enough for you come outta there...

TracyLynnS · 04-23-2009, 06:53 PM

Tommy looks like a right nice feller.

There's a picture of him here:
http://www.freetommyz.com/_mgxroot/page_10769.html

And on the main page of that site, they claim that they've got DNA evidence to prove that Tommy didn't do it. There's a lot to read on there. Even the DNA stuff alone is huge. (One big *reveal* is that Tommy did NOT have his father in law's blood on him.)

From everything I can find, Tommy's case is a huge mess. It's got crime, corruption, cover ups, and injustice from start to finish. I don't think he murdered anyone.

And the fact that the gov't has kept him locked up on death row all these years, knowing that the judge had a conflict, and then that same judge overruled the jury (who reccommended life in prison) and handed down a death sentence... well that's terrifying.

I don't know why the innocence project or florida innocence hasn't taken up his case. There's blood to do a dna test. Maybe considering the circumstances, with the results of the dna not resulting in a big Maury Povitch Who's the Baby Daddy moment, they don't want to get involved?

http://www.freetommyz.com/_mgxroot/page_10731.html

Jediknight1823 · 04-24-2009, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyangel

Just wondering any of your opinions on this case, guilty? innocent?

I think that Zeigler is 100% innocent. I think the whole thing was a setup to kill Zeigler and his family, and put the blame all on Zeigler.

As for the motive for wanting Zeigler dead. It was his fight against corruption. He testified in a previous case which pissed a lot of people off, and was helpful in getting the Edgewater Hotel shut down.

There's no way Zeigler will be put to death or released. If he's put to death, there's going to be some very pissed off people. And if released like has been said the state would have to admit that Zeigler was railroaded, and setup to take the fall. Sadly, this case will have an ending like the Michael Lloyd Self case, Zeigler will die without getting his name cleared.

kadrmas15 · 04-24-2009, 05:07 PM

Yes I agree, I hate to say it but while I feel that Ziegler is innocent I also feel that the chances of him having his name officially cleared are basically zero and it breaks my heart to say that. The state courts in Florida have proven that they will not do anything to overturn this case, I was hoping that the federal courts would do the right thing but they have not. I mean the state has huge motives to cover this up, I think they even know that Ziegler is innocent hence why they are fighting against him so hard. Ziegler has been on death row for over 32 and a half years, it will be 33 years in July. If Ziegler were to be proven innocent and officially cleared by the state, the state of Florida would owe Ziegler 1.65 million dollars under the bill that gives people officially proven innocent 50 grand a year for every year they were in prison, this is if they do not have a prior felony conviction which Ziegler did not. Plus on top of that money that would be guaranteed him, I am sure Ziegler would sue the Orange County Sheriff's Department (which has a rather lengthy record of corruption that continues to this day) he could not sue the prosecutors individually because prosecutors have immunity (which they should not have) so he could sue the state's attorney's office in Orlando but not sue the individual prosecutors involved in his case past and present. I am sure he could not sue Judge Paul individually but that would be interesting to see if he could. I mean Ziegler would be in line to make millions upon millions from this and what the state really does not want though is to have to admit they screwed up. They just do not want to do that and would rather keep an innocent prison and perhaps even kill him rather than admit they made a mistake.

As for Judge Paul, he is a disgrace to the bench. He had no business presiding over this case due to his obvious personal dislike of the defendant before the murders even happened, Paul was heavily biased against Ziegler and as was mentioned he over-ruled the jury's life recommendation and sentenced Ziegler to death. Florida is only one of two states where a judge is allowed to over-rule a life recommendation, the other one is Alabama and Florida and Alabama are also the only states where a jury can recommend a death sentence without having to be unanimous. In Florida, for the recommendation to be life, at least 6 of the 12 jurors voted for a life sentence. Because in Florida, if the jury is tied 6 to 6 than it is a life recommendation. However I have read where it was stated a majority of the jury voted to recommend life so it must have been at least 7 jurors wanted a life sentence. Judge Paul is now 77 years old and is still on the federal court bench. Paul is one of two federal judges based out of Gainesville ironically enough hearing appeals from death row inmates. Paul was appointed to the federal bench in 1982 by President Ronald Reagan. While Maurice Paul was serving as a circuit court judge in Orange County from 1972 to 1982 sentenced numerous other inmates to death. In fact a couple of them besides Ziegler are still on death row due to numerous problems with their cases. Henry Sireci was sentenced to death in 1976, the same year as Ziegler and James Hitchcock who was sentenced to death in 1977. Ziegler had his death sentence overturned once as did Sireci, Hitchcock has had his death sentence reversed 3 times! That is the only reason any of these 3 guys are still alive is because they had their death sentences (but not their convictions) reversed. However even when a death sentence only is reversed it starts the appeals process all over again. In Ziegler's case anyway that is a good thing!

colt45allstar · 04-25-2009, 03:27 AM

I've never for one second thought he was guilty and I feel it's an absolute travesty that he's spent so long on death row (or behind bars at all for that matter)

It just goes to show that our justice system, isn't always so just.

07-22-2007, 12:17 PM	#1
johnnyangel Member Frequent Poster Join Date: May 08, 2002 Posts: 329	Any updates and/or your opinions on the Tommy Zeigler case? Just wondering any of your opinions on this case, guilty? innocent? Is he still alive? I have read somewhere tons of new evidence came up in his favor, what ever happened in that regard? Thanks for all of your opinions and such!

07-22-2007, 01:29 PM	#3
UMfan0682 Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Jul 11, 2004 Posts: 124	I've just finished watching this segment last night, and I'm really not sure what to think. It was very interesting the way Ziegler’s wife was found. Her hand was in her pocket, like the police said, she had trusted the person she was with. There is also plenty of evidence to sway me more towards his innocence. I had found a very interesting article that read he had been a key player in shutting down the Edgewater hotel, known for the heavy drug dealings and prostitute hangouts. Maybe it's possible the police wanted him out of the way. I found it very interesting that the tape was later found where the eyewitness had said he watched a police officer with his gun pointed toward the store at around 9:00, a full 20 minuets before Ziegler had called the police. Again, I'm not too sure what to think. On one hand, he could have staged the whole think to look like a robbery/break-in and he really could have wanted the insurance money and murdered both his wife and parents, or he could have been a victim of foul play...

07-23-2007, 08:40 PM	#4
kadrmas15 Retired from Board 03/03/11 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 11, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,910	He didnt stage it, in my opinion, it is possible he did, but I do not feel he did. Why would he wipe clean some of the guns that were supposed to have his fingerprints but not others? Why was there the witness that was not called at trial yet had heard shots and seen a policeman with his gun drawn BEFORE those shots were fired? I mean, I am known to defend the accussed on here much to people's dismay, but I will tell you, Ziegler is probably the most convinced I have b een of a person's innocence profiled on UM except for Johnny Wilson whom I was even more convinced of his innocence. However just look at Jeff Ashton and the BS he tries to give whenever he denies Zeigler, he knows his case is crap and if the Zeigler would get a new trial he would probably get acquitted. He should have never been convicted in the first place and certainly should have never been put on death row, I think we all can agree that an over zealous judge with a personal vendetta and an ax to grind got Zeigler on the row.

07-24-2007, 01:11 AM	#5
DarkDante Member Senior Member Join Date: Jul 27, 2002 Posts: 1,569	I've commented on this case at length before so I'll just say that I've always felt that Ziegler was not guilty.

07-24-2007, 05:54 PM	#6
kadrmas15 Retired from Board 03/03/11 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 11, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,910	Zeigler is still alive, he has been on death row for 31 years and I believe is the 4th or 5th longest serving death row inmate in Florida, Zeigler is now 62 years old. Zeigler's latest appeal was just denied recently by the Florida State Supreme Court and from what I have been reading his appeals are getting down to the wire, he still has a few legal avenues to go down but his appeals are winding down and he is getting closer to the end, so I think the only hope Zeigler has is to get a new trial ordered, the state supreme court will not do it so the feds will probably have to do it. If that were to happen than the state would have to decide whether or not to re-try Zeigler or the more likely thing they would do is offer a plea bargain to Zeigler where if he pled guilty to 2nd degree murder he would be sentenced to time served and released so that the state wouldnt look as bad and so they wouldnt have to compensate Zeigler for all the time he spent behind bars.

07-24-2007, 07:32 PM	#7
DarkDante Member Senior Member Join Date: Jul 27, 2002 Posts: 1,569	I remember reading on here from a long time member who lives in Florida (I don't think it was Justin but I could be wrong) that the state of Florida will never execute Ziegler due to some type of severe fallout if they did. According to this poster Ziegler seems to be stuck in limbo, he's not going to be freed but isn't likely to be executed anytime soon.

07-24-2007, 09:40 PM	#8
kadrmas15 Retired from Board 03/03/11 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 11, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,910	Hmm, well that is possible that they wont execute him to due to some legal stuff. However the thought that a person might be innocent I do not think has ever stopped an inmate from executing someone, but Zeigler is still alive after 31 years on the row because there is so much doubt as to his guilt that while the state will do everything in their power to not release him (the only way they will release him is if he is overturned in federal court and a new trial ordered) I know Zeigler has been saying he either wants to be released or executed. I think this latest denial was very devastating to his case, I certainly hope he is not executed, but if the state doesnt execute him it will be because it would simply be too controversial for them to do so. I say if Ziegler gets a new trial the state would either not re-try him and let it go or the more likely option is they would offer him a plea bargain where if he would plead guilty to 2nd degree murder he would be sentenced to time served and released. This way the state can let him out of prison without having to pay him any money for all the years he wrongfully spent behind bars and they can also never have to publicly admit they wrongfully convicted him.

07-24-2007, 10:36 PM	#9
Dislimb Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Mar 23, 2006 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 431	http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/...9&postcount=16

04-23-2009, 04:05 PM	#10
TommyZiegler Member First Time Poster Join Date: Apr 23, 2009 Posts: 1	this cracks me up.

04-23-2009, 06:53 PM	#12
TracyLynnS Don't Look Up Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Jan 07, 2009 Posts: 3,107	Tommy looks like a right nice feller. There's a picture of him here: http://www.freetommyz.com/_mgxroot/page_10769.html And on the main page of that site, they claim that they've got DNA evidence to prove that Tommy didn't do it. There's a lot to read on there. Even the DNA stuff alone is huge. (One big reveal is that Tommy did NOT have his father in law's blood on him.) From everything I can find, Tommy's case is a huge mess. It's got crime, corruption, cover ups, and injustice from start to finish. I don't think he murdered anyone. And the fact that the gov't has kept him locked up on death row all these years, knowing that the judge had a conflict, and then that same judge overruled the jury (who reccommended life in prison) and handed down a death sentence... well that's terrifying. I don't know why the innocence project or florida innocence hasn't taken up his case. There's blood to do a dna test. Maybe considering the circumstances, with the results of the dna not resulting in a big Maury Povitch Who's the Baby Daddy moment, they don't want to get involved? http://www.freetommyz.com/_mgxroot/page_10731.html

04-24-2009, 05:07 PM	#14
kadrmas15 Retired from Board 03/03/11 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 11, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,910	Yes I agree, I hate to say it but while I feel that Ziegler is innocent I also feel that the chances of him having his name officially cleared are basically zero and it breaks my heart to say that. The state courts in Florida have proven that they will not do anything to overturn this case, I was hoping that the federal courts would do the right thing but they have not. I mean the state has huge motives to cover this up, I think they even know that Ziegler is innocent hence why they are fighting against him so hard. Ziegler has been on death row for over 32 and a half years, it will be 33 years in July. If Ziegler were to be proven innocent and officially cleared by the state, the state of Florida would owe Ziegler 1.65 million dollars under the bill that gives people officially proven innocent 50 grand a year for every year they were in prison, this is if they do not have a prior felony conviction which Ziegler did not. Plus on top of that money that would be guaranteed him, I am sure Ziegler would sue the Orange County Sheriff's Department (which has a rather lengthy record of corruption that continues to this day) he could not sue the prosecutors individually because prosecutors have immunity (which they should not have) so he could sue the state's attorney's office in Orlando but not sue the individual prosecutors involved in his case past and present. I am sure he could not sue Judge Paul individually but that would be interesting to see if he could. I mean Ziegler would be in line to make millions upon millions from this and what the state really does not want though is to have to admit they screwed up. They just do not want to do that and would rather keep an innocent prison and perhaps even kill him rather than admit they made a mistake. As for Judge Paul, he is a disgrace to the bench. He had no business presiding over this case due to his obvious personal dislike of the defendant before the murders even happened, Paul was heavily biased against Ziegler and as was mentioned he over-ruled the jury's life recommendation and sentenced Ziegler to death. Florida is only one of two states where a judge is allowed to over-rule a life recommendation, the other one is Alabama and Florida and Alabama are also the only states where a jury can recommend a death sentence without having to be unanimous. In Florida, for the recommendation to be life, at least 6 of the 12 jurors voted for a life sentence. Because in Florida, if the jury is tied 6 to 6 than it is a life recommendation. However I have read where it was stated a majority of the jury voted to recommend life so it must have been at least 7 jurors wanted a life sentence. Judge Paul is now 77 years old and is still on the federal court bench. Paul is one of two federal judges based out of Gainesville ironically enough hearing appeals from death row inmates. Paul was appointed to the federal bench in 1982 by President Ronald Reagan. While Maurice Paul was serving as a circuit court judge in Orange County from 1972 to 1982 sentenced numerous other inmates to death. In fact a couple of them besides Ziegler are still on death row due to numerous problems with their cases. Henry Sireci was sentenced to death in 1976, the same year as Ziegler and James Hitchcock who was sentenced to death in 1977. Ziegler had his death sentence overturned once as did Sireci, Hitchcock has had his death sentence reversed 3 times! That is the only reason any of these 3 guys are still alive is because they had their death sentences (but not their convictions) reversed. However even when a death sentence only is reversed it starts the appeals process all over again. In Ziegler's case anyway that is a good thing!

04-25-2009, 03:27 AM	#15
colt45allstar Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Mar 09, 2006 Posts: 69	I've never for one second thought he was guilty and I feel it's an absolute travesty that he's spent so long on death row (or behind bars at all for that matter) It just goes to show that our justice system, isn't always so just.