A few new unanswered questions about the Larry Race case - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

wiseguy182 · 07-02-2007, 05:47 AM

Well in the past I've mentioned that I have leaned towards Larry being innocent. I decided to take a look at the other side, and came up with a few unanswered questions that I don't think we've discussed before. Call it wiseguy 360 I guess, I don't know, maybe it's because it's a slow week here at the hotel and I'm bored. This is not to say that I know for sure think Larry is guilty, but I do have some questions that might need some explaining.

1. the boat leaked, but was fixed, according to Larry. So it seems like there wasn't anything wrong with the boat when they left it, or at least nothing that couldn't be fixed. Larry feels that the boat is not in bad enough shape to abandon it, but adheres to Debbie's request to get off it. This is very risky, as they leave a boat that, at the very most, had manageable problems (and even if they couldn't stay on it for the rest of the night, probably could have at least gotten it to land.) in favor of braving the water, especially given the knowledge that one of their rafts is no good. It asssumes that not just one, but two people were willing to leave a boat that was fixable in favor of treacherous waters. Does this seem unlikely?

2. Larry mentioned that a similar situation happened with his daughters the previous year. Thank goodness the daughters didn't drown, but wouldn't a father/husband make extra certain that the boat was 100% repaired before taking it out again with his family, and also certain that both rafts were in working condition? Especially since no one was around, and they apparently didn't have a radio (communiaction) or flares.

3. We're told that Larry leaves Debby to go to the other boat, which turns out to be his own. I would imagine that this would only take a couple of minutes. He knew where Debby was when he left her, and also must have known which direction she was headed (toward shore). So then, why wasn't he able to locate her for several hours (she turned up dead the next morning). Not only that, but what could have happened to make it that her raft was punctured? While it was dark, the boat would have had lights, and she couldn't have ventured far in just that couple minutes, so what happened?

I just thought I would throw a few ideas out there and see what everyone thought. Maybe I'm just thinking too much on this case, yeah I'm bored.

wiseguy182 · 07-02-2007, 07:03 AM

whoops, sorry. After doing a search and reading some old threads on the case, I learned that yes, my second and third points have been mentioned before. Sorry about that. It was in that really confusing thread that was hard to read, and I tended to skip over a lot of that, so that's why I didn't remember it.

However, I did find something on a link a few people had posted, and thought I would mention it for those that might have missed it, as this has not been discussed here to my knowledge: Larry told police that he got tired of towing the raft and decided to climb back onto the boat, where he passed out for 5 hours, which would explain why Debby wasn't found all that time. The segment talks about Larry spotting lights and going for it, thinking it was another boat.

Also, another new point. When Larry gets back to the boat after realizing it's his own, he is able to start it. Yet it sounds like that whether it running or not was not the reason they left the boat in the first place, it having a leak is why they left. Assuming that the boat has no leak and it's only problem is that it won't start, this raises more questions as to why they left the boat and decided to risk it. Yes, they would have to get off the boat eventually, but they could have at least waited until dawn when the chances of being spotted if they run into trouble increase.

IMO, the part of the article that talks about Larry deciding to go back to the boat because he got tired creates a whole new ballgame. Why didn't he drag Debbie with her? I understand why Larry decided to leave the boat in the first place, because Debbie was panicking, but given that Debbie died and Larry could have died, it just seems like their best bet would have been to stay on the boat.

Also, someone mentioned in that other thread I was talking about, that there was a possibility the one raft was damaged before it was taken out onto the water.

It's a pain that we don't know the distance they were from the boat when Larry decided to go for it. If they were almost to shore, then it wouldn't have made sense. But, if they were relatively close to it, it would have made sense.

Space Invaderz, here's another reason why the two rafts, or at least the story of two rafts, becomes imporant. The story about two rafts at first appears to help Race (thinking that he's safety-concious by having two rafts) yet eventually becomes a problem for him because the odds of the boat and both rafts all becoming inactive are quite low.

Bah, now I'm thinking way too much about this case.

SP4CE INV4DERZ · 07-02-2007, 07:13 AM

...well you know my thoughts and feelings on Larry Race.
And yeh your 3rd point I know I have brought up in past posting, no-one seems to have a decent answer for.
N Justin offered an explaination of the second raft Larry claimed to have had.. but Im not going to bother with anymore questions and answers on this one as its been discussed to death...so-to-speak....

mozartpc27 · 07-02-2007, 10:38 AM

I posted extensively on my feelings about the Larry Race case in the last two pages of this thread, but there was one last blow I was saving in case Awsi Dooger ever responded to my last post on the subject in that thread, and he never did.

Essentially, this is what you have if you're the police:

A man and his wife get on a boat together for a late night cruise.

Several hours later, the man returns. He's on the boat, which shows no evidence of any problems, but there's no sign of the wife.

That, my friends, is deeply suspiscious under any circumstances.

And what about this report that he told police that, upon returning to the boat after attempting to tow the raft to shore, he "passed out for five hours?" If they had put this in the UM segment, much of the doubt about his guilt would have been removed, which is why I guess they withheld it. But, what I assume this means is that he NEVER really searched for his wife after returning to the boat, and never really even claimed to have done so in his initial conversations with police, even though he says he did in the UM segment. Instead, what he actually did was fall asleep.

So, with his wife adrift in extremely cold water at what could have been a distance of NO MORE than 100 yards or so, and himself in a working boat, he is so concerned that he... dozes off for a few hours? That's the best he could do for a story?

I'm sorry, but he's guilty as sin.

wiseguy, where's this article you speak of? I'd like to read it.

wiseguy182 · 07-02-2007, 06:02 PM

mozart, here is the link

http://www.kare11.com/news/news_arti...?storyid=79596

there is a video to watch in addition to the story, but I couldn't get that to play on my computer. Huh, and I thought I had all of the fancy components to go with it. Actually it did play a video, but it was some car commercial. Someone let me know if you can play the video, and what it talks about, pwetty pwease.

It didn't say that he fell asleep, it said that he passed out from exhaustion, which I would imagine was due to a combination of being tired and the frigid temperatures.

You are correct mozart, I do wonder why UM left out about the part about him passing out for 5 hours. I always thought the re-enactment ended kind of abruptly after that.

Here's another thing I don't get: the lack of oars. Not only are we supposed to believe that a person is going to go out on a boat that has had problems that apparently haven't been fixed, but also with one or two rafts, neither of which worked properly, and on top of all that, no (blank) oars! Is this just the most careless person ever?

We're told that when Larry leaves Debby, he believes that Debby will make it to shore if he doens't get help from the boat. Ok, that's fine, but how does Debby make it there if she doens't have an oar? I'm going to assume that she does something to steer herself in the direction of the shore, perhaps paddle with her hands? Also, if the boat was functioning properly, it would seem that Debby would have latched onto that, regardless of whether Larry was passed out or not, and would have made an effort to get back to the boat instead of continuing to head towards shore.

Whew, I don't know, maybe I'm heading back to 50/50 status on this one.

kamy · 07-03-2007, 12:07 PM

If Debby was as frantic as the renactment portrayed, I doubt she would have been with it enough to put her hand in the water and row. Also, with this boat having the history of problems, and almost sinking previously (with the Race's daughters aboard), why would Larry had not had it properly prepared for potential disaster?
I really felt for this guy and he seemed genuine, but all signs point to guilty.

mozartpc27 · 07-03-2007, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiseguy182

mozart, here is the link

http://www.kare11.com/news/news_arti...?storyid=79596

Thanks wiseguy. I would like for Larry Race to explain why he told the police he fell asleep, but told the person interviewing him for the UM segment that he searched for his wife upon returning to the boat but could not find her.

Sounds like awareness of guilt to me.

07-02-2007, 05:47 AM	#1
wiseguy182 Member Forum Veteran Join Date: Apr 11, 2006 Location: Wendy's salad bar Posts: 7,030	A few new unanswered questions about the Larry Race case Well in the past I've mentioned that I have leaned towards Larry being innocent. I decided to take a look at the other side, and came up with a few unanswered questions that I don't think we've discussed before. Call it wiseguy 360 I guess, I don't know, maybe it's because it's a slow week here at the hotel and I'm bored. This is not to say that I know for sure think Larry is guilty, but I do have some questions that might need some explaining. 1. the boat leaked, but was fixed, according to Larry. So it seems like there wasn't anything wrong with the boat when they left it, or at least nothing that couldn't be fixed. Larry feels that the boat is not in bad enough shape to abandon it, but adheres to Debbie's request to get off it. This is very risky, as they leave a boat that, at the very most, had manageable problems (and even if they couldn't stay on it for the rest of the night, probably could have at least gotten it to land.) in favor of braving the water, especially given the knowledge that one of their rafts is no good. It asssumes that not just one, but two people were willing to leave a boat that was fixable in favor of treacherous waters. Does this seem unlikely? 2. Larry mentioned that a similar situation happened with his daughters the previous year. Thank goodness the daughters didn't drown, but wouldn't a father/husband make extra certain that the boat was 100% repaired before taking it out again with his family, and also certain that both rafts were in working condition? Especially since no one was around, and they apparently didn't have a radio (communiaction) or flares. 3. We're told that Larry leaves Debby to go to the other boat, which turns out to be his own. I would imagine that this would only take a couple of minutes. He knew where Debby was when he left her, and also must have known which direction she was headed (toward shore). So then, why wasn't he able to locate her for several hours (she turned up dead the next morning). Not only that, but what could have happened to make it that her raft was punctured? While it was dark, the boat would have had lights, and she couldn't have ventured far in just that couple minutes, so what happened? I just thought I would throw a few ideas out there and see what everyone thought. Maybe I'm just thinking too much on this case, yeah I'm bored.

07-02-2007, 10:38 AM	#4
mozartpc27 Vigilante Logician Forum Regular Join Date: Mar 09, 2006 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 926	I posted extensively on my feelings about the Larry Race case in the last two pages of this thread, but there was one last blow I was saving in case Awsi Dooger ever responded to my last post on the subject in that thread, and he never did. Essentially, this is what you have if you're the police: A man and his wife get on a boat together for a late night cruise. Several hours later, the man returns. He's on the boat, which shows no evidence of any problems, but there's no sign of the wife. That, my friends, is deeply suspiscious under any circumstances. And what about this report that he told police that, upon returning to the boat after attempting to tow the raft to shore, he "passed out for five hours?" If they had put this in the UM segment, much of the doubt about his guilt would have been removed, which is why I guess they withheld it. But, what I assume this means is that he NEVER really searched for his wife after returning to the boat, and never really even claimed to have done so in his initial conversations with police, even though he says he did in the UM segment. Instead, what he actually did was fall asleep. So, with his wife adrift in extremely cold water at what could have been a distance of NO MORE than 100 yards or so, and himself in a working boat, he is so concerned that he... dozes off for a few hours? That's the best he could do for a story? I'm sorry, but he's guilty as sin. wiseguy, where's this article you speak of? I'd like to read it.
	__________________ "You can't say the words that the rock makes you feel like." - Patty Johnson

07-02-2007, 07:03 AM	#2
wiseguy182 Member Forum Veteran Join Date: Apr 11, 2006 Location: Wendy's salad bar Posts: 7,030	whoops, sorry. After doing a search and reading some old threads on the case, I learned that yes, my second and third points have been mentioned before. Sorry about that. It was in that really confusing thread that was hard to read, and I tended to skip over a lot of that, so that's why I didn't remember it. However, I did find something on a link a few people had posted, and thought I would mention it for those that might have missed it, as this has not been discussed here to my knowledge: Larry told police that he got tired of towing the raft and decided to climb back onto the boat, where he passed out for 5 hours, which would explain why Debby wasn't found all that time. The segment talks about Larry spotting lights and going for it, thinking it was another boat. Also, another new point. When Larry gets back to the boat after realizing it's his own, he is able to start it. Yet it sounds like that whether it running or not was not the reason they left the boat in the first place, it having a leak is why they left. Assuming that the boat has no leak and it's only problem is that it won't start, this raises more questions as to why they left the boat and decided to risk it. Yes, they would have to get off the boat eventually, but they could have at least waited until dawn when the chances of being spotted if they run into trouble increase. IMO, the part of the article that talks about Larry deciding to go back to the boat because he got tired creates a whole new ballgame. Why didn't he drag Debbie with her? I understand why Larry decided to leave the boat in the first place, because Debbie was panicking, but given that Debbie died and Larry could have died, it just seems like their best bet would have been to stay on the boat. Also, someone mentioned in that other thread I was talking about, that there was a possibility the one raft was damaged before it was taken out onto the water. It's a pain that we don't know the distance they were from the boat when Larry decided to go for it. If they were almost to shore, then it wouldn't have made sense. But, if they were relatively close to it, it would have made sense. Space Invaderz, here's another reason why the two rafts, or at least the story of two rafts, becomes imporant. The story about two rafts at first appears to help Race (thinking that he's safety-concious by having two rafts) yet eventually becomes a problem for him because the odds of the boat and both rafts all becoming inactive are quite low. Bah, now I'm thinking way too much about this case.

07-02-2007, 07:13 AM	#3
SP4CE INV4DERZ 40-0 0WN3D Forum Regular Join Date: Dec 06, 2004 Posts: 630	...well you know my thoughts and feelings on Larry Race. And yeh your 3rd point I know I have brought up in past posting, no-one seems to have a decent answer for. N Justin offered an explaination of the second raft Larry claimed to have had.. but Im not going to bother with anymore questions and answers on this one as its been discussed to death...so-to-speak....

07-02-2007, 06:02 PM	#5
wiseguy182 Member Forum Veteran Join Date: Apr 11, 2006 Location: Wendy's salad bar Posts: 7,030	mozart, here is the link http://www.kare11.com/news/news_arti...?storyid=79596 there is a video to watch in addition to the story, but I couldn't get that to play on my computer. Huh, and I thought I had all of the fancy components to go with it. Actually it did play a video, but it was some car commercial. Someone let me know if you can play the video, and what it talks about, pwetty pwease. It didn't say that he fell asleep, it said that he passed out from exhaustion, which I would imagine was due to a combination of being tired and the frigid temperatures. You are correct mozart, I do wonder why UM left out about the part about him passing out for 5 hours. I always thought the re-enactment ended kind of abruptly after that. Here's another thing I don't get: the lack of oars. Not only are we supposed to believe that a person is going to go out on a boat that has had problems that apparently haven't been fixed, but also with one or two rafts, neither of which worked properly, and on top of all that, no (blank) oars! Is this just the most careless person ever? We're told that when Larry leaves Debby, he believes that Debby will make it to shore if he doens't get help from the boat. Ok, that's fine, but how does Debby make it there if she doens't have an oar? I'm going to assume that she does something to steer herself in the direction of the shore, perhaps paddle with her hands? Also, if the boat was functioning properly, it would seem that Debby would have latched onto that, regardless of whether Larry was passed out or not, and would have made an effort to get back to the boat instead of continuing to head towards shore. Whew, I don't know, maybe I'm heading back to 50/50 status on this one.

07-03-2007, 12:07 PM	#6
kamy UM Fanatic Forum Regular Join Date: Apr 25, 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 625	If Debby was as frantic as the renactment portrayed, I doubt she would have been with it enough to put her hand in the water and row. Also, with this boat having the history of problems, and almost sinking previously (with the Race's daughters aboard), why would Larry had not had it properly prepared for potential disaster? I really felt for this guy and he seemed genuine, but all signs point to guilty.