Semi-OT: UM segment on John Wilkes Booth and Lincoln - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

justins5256 · 06-13-2007, 09:32 PM

As I'm sure most of you are aware, UM broadcast a segment regarding the possibility that the assassin of Abraham Lincoln wasn't really killed, and escaped and went on to live the good life for several years, yada yada. I tend to think this theory is bogus.

However, there was a bigger (and more interesting) mystery surrounding the Lincoln assassination - the involvement of the confederates in plotting to overthrow the government established by the union. There is no doubt that Lincoln's death was the result of a conspiracy. One of Booth's associates, Louis Paine, was sent to kill the secretary of state, William Sewerd. He failed in his attempt on Seward's life. Another associate, George Azordot (sp?), was dispatched to kill vice president Andrew Johnson, but he decided to get drunk instead.

The year before, Booth had conspired to kidnap Lincoln. This attempt too failed. However, was Booth just a fanatic, or was he backed by the confederacy?

Any thoughts?

phillipscurve · 06-13-2007, 11:49 PM

John Wilkes Booth assigned Lewis Powell a.k.a. "Lewis Paine" to assassinate Secretary of State Seward and George Atzerodt to assassinate Vicepresident Johnson. Another guy named David Herold would assist in their escape into Virginia. As you mentioned, Atzerodt never attempted the assassination against VP Johnson, but Powell did inflict serious stab-wounds to Secretary of State Seward, two of his sons: Frederick and Augustus, his daughter Fanny and a Sergeant Major whose last name was Robinson.

In my opinion, maybe, there was a conspiracy that reached the high levels of the Confederate Government, but at the so called "Original Plot" to kidnap President Lincoln after his re-election in early November 1864 (the unexplained trip Booth made to Montreal in October 1864. Montreal was a well known center of clandestine Confederate activities. In that city he stayed for a time at St. Lawrence Hall, a meeting place for the Confederate Secret Service. It is also possible that Booth met here the Confederate Secret Service director James D. Bulloch). However, no solid evidence has ever linked Booth´s kidnapping or assassination plot to a conspiracy involving any members of the Confederate Government.

wiseguy182 · 06-14-2007, 12:39 AM

I haven't seen either of these segments that I can recall, but I agree that the first one sounds bunk. I can't imagine any President doing that to their country, especially Honest Abe.

Cori aka ChrisSCrush · 02-10-2009, 02:49 AM

Regarding the Lincoln assassination and conspiracy theories, the PBS program American Experience has done its usual excellent job with a new special on the events, including who was in the conspiracy, the plans, and who did what, blowing that dreck presented on Unsolved Mysteries right out of the water. The UM segment was a complete fabrication except the quote from the doctor saying the corpse had no resemblance to Booth nor could he believe it to be him. He really did say that. Moments later, however, Booth's initials tattooed on his wrist, and his scar from a procedure the doctor himself performed on Booth convinced him otherwise. A letter from the doctor himself states this. The other parts of the story, that the difference in appearance extended to hair color, skin tone, and the absence of a broken leg are absolutely untrue.

Major, MAJOR screwups were made in that relatives of Booth's were available but were not asked to identify the remains (the American Experience program makes it clear they were afraid to leave their homes,) neither were they displayed to the public although Lincoln's were widely displayed. (Now, how wacked is THAT? That it's okay to drag the president's corpse all over the country, but not the assassin's?) Years later, the remains of Bonnie and Clyde were seen by tens of thousands of people. You don't see too many stories claiming that Abraham Lincoln or Bonnie and Clyde escaped being fatally shot, as are seen about Booth. The alleged Booth mummy, which was pictured near the end of the American Experience program, has gone into hiding now that modern tests are available, and exhuming Booth himself is impossible due to his being buried in an unmarked grave near siblings of his who didn't shoot the president and shouldn't be disturbed by diggings.

The remains of the Lindbergh baby are also unavailable as they were cremated and scattered, which fueled conspiracy theories that he, also, lived. There were, however, remains in the form of a few hairs and teeth in a file for 70 or 80 years. The family petitioned to receive these, did, had them tested by a forensic expert, and the remains found in the woods were proven to be those of Charles Lindbergh, Jr. Some remains of John Wilkes Booth are also accounted for. His vertebrae where Boston Corbett's bullet hit him are in the Mutter Museum, Philadelphia. http://home.att.net/~rjnorton/Lincoln83.html Perhaps these could be tested against known Booth family members and the matter put to rest.

crystaldawn · 02-10-2009, 08:26 AM

I thought the UM segment did a good job of making a compelling case for John Wilkes Booth to have not been killed at the barn. Speaking of Booth did anyone hear the recent news story about his father? It seems the apple didn't fall far from the tree:

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2009/ja...rmined-writte/

Cori aka ChrisSCrush · 02-10-2009, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crystaldawn

I thought the UM segment did a good job of making a compelling case for John Wilkes Booth to have not been killed at the barn. Speaking of Booth did anyone hear the recent news story about his father? It seems the apple didn't fall far from the tree:

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2009/ja...rmined-writte/

OMG, he SIGNED HIS OWN NAME? Took guts, or being nuts!

Cori aka ChrisSCrush · 02-10-2009, 11:43 PM

There was another Lincoln conspiracy story, about some secret papers concerning the assassination. My junior high school history teacher told us these papers were locked up unavailable for study except by some special group such as a congressional committee. Every once in a prescribed period, say 50 years, this group took a vote on whether to keep them sealed. The second vote had only been around 1965 so people would have to wait till 2015 for a chance to see the papers. I've asked around and as far as I have learned there is no truth to this.

Arnold_OldSchool · 02-21-2009, 04:32 AM

Booth was shot, but paralyzed and lived for 3 hours.

Some of his shattered bones were saved, so DNA should be possible

Cori aka ChrisSCrush · 12-06-2014, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cori aka ChrisSCrush

There was another Lincoln conspiracy story, about some secret papers concerning the assassination. My junior high school history teacher told us these papers were locked up unavailable for study except by some special group such as a congressional committee. Every once in a prescribed period, say 50 years, this group took a vote on whether to keep them sealed. The second vote had only been around 1965 so people would have to wait till 2015 for a chance to see the papers. I've asked around and as far as I have learned there is no truth to this.

There are, however, 18 pages missing from Booth's diary, which Stanton is accused of taking.

Cori aka ChrisSCrush · 04-17-2015, 01:13 AM

Moving up for the 150th anniversary (Sesquicentennial).

06-13-2007, 09:32 PM	#1
justins5256 Member Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 08, 2002 Posts: 3,866	Semi-OT: UM segment on John Wilkes Booth and Lincoln As I'm sure most of you are aware, UM broadcast a segment regarding the possibility that the assassin of Abraham Lincoln wasn't really killed, and escaped and went on to live the good life for several years, yada yada. I tend to think this theory is bogus. However, there was a bigger (and more interesting) mystery surrounding the Lincoln assassination - the involvement of the confederates in plotting to overthrow the government established by the union. There is no doubt that Lincoln's death was the result of a conspiracy. One of Booth's associates, Louis Paine, was sent to kill the secretary of state, William Sewerd. He failed in his attempt on Seward's life. Another associate, George Azordot (sp?), was dispatched to kill vice president Andrew Johnson, but he decided to get drunk instead. The year before, Booth had conspired to kidnap Lincoln. This attempt too failed. However, was Booth just a fanatic, or was he backed by the confederacy? Any thoughts?

06-13-2007, 11:49 PM	#2
phillipscurve Member Occasional Poster Join Date: May 18, 2007 Location: planet earth Posts: 71	John Wilkes Booth assigned Lewis Powell a.k.a. "Lewis Paine" to assassinate Secretary of State Seward and George Atzerodt to assassinate Vicepresident Johnson. Another guy named David Herold would assist in their escape into Virginia. As you mentioned, Atzerodt never attempted the assassination against VP Johnson, but Powell did inflict serious stab-wounds to Secretary of State Seward, two of his sons: Frederick and Augustus, his daughter Fanny and a Sergeant Major whose last name was Robinson. In my opinion, maybe, there was a conspiracy that reached the high levels of the Confederate Government, but at the so called "Original Plot" to kidnap President Lincoln after his re-election in early November 1864 (the unexplained trip Booth made to Montreal in October 1864. Montreal was a well known center of clandestine Confederate activities. In that city he stayed for a time at St. Lawrence Hall, a meeting place for the Confederate Secret Service. It is also possible that Booth met here the Confederate Secret Service director James D. Bulloch). However, no solid evidence has ever linked Booth´s kidnapping or assassination plot to a conspiracy involving any members of the Confederate Government.
	__________________ Rational Expectations

06-14-2007, 12:39 AM	#3
wiseguy182 Member Forum Veteran Join Date: Apr 11, 2006 Location: Wendy's salad bar Posts: 7,030	I haven't seen either of these segments that I can recall, but I agree that the first one sounds bunk. I can't imagine any President doing that to their country, especially Honest Abe.

02-10-2009, 02:49 AM	#4
Cori aka ChrisSCrush Member Senior Member Join Date: Dec 30, 2001 Location: USA and still trying to be proud of it! Posts: 2,071	Regarding the Lincoln assassination and conspiracy theories, the PBS program American Experience has done its usual excellent job with a new special on the events, including who was in the conspiracy, the plans, and who did what, blowing that dreck presented on Unsolved Mysteries right out of the water. The UM segment was a complete fabrication except the quote from the doctor saying the corpse had no resemblance to Booth nor could he believe it to be him. He really did say that. Moments later, however, Booth's initials tattooed on his wrist, and his scar from a procedure the doctor himself performed on Booth convinced him otherwise. A letter from the doctor himself states this. The other parts of the story, that the difference in appearance extended to hair color, skin tone, and the absence of a broken leg are absolutely untrue. Major, MAJOR screwups were made in that relatives of Booth's were available but were not asked to identify the remains (the American Experience program makes it clear they were afraid to leave their homes,) neither were they displayed to the public although Lincoln's were widely displayed. (Now, how wacked is THAT? That it's okay to drag the president's corpse all over the country, but not the assassin's?) Years later, the remains of Bonnie and Clyde were seen by tens of thousands of people. You don't see too many stories claiming that Abraham Lincoln or Bonnie and Clyde escaped being fatally shot, as are seen about Booth. The alleged Booth mummy, which was pictured near the end of the American Experience program, has gone into hiding now that modern tests are available, and exhuming Booth himself is impossible due to his being buried in an unmarked grave near siblings of his who didn't shoot the president and shouldn't be disturbed by diggings. The remains of the Lindbergh baby are also unavailable as they were cremated and scattered, which fueled conspiracy theories that he, also, lived. There were, however, remains in the form of a few hairs and teeth in a file for 70 or 80 years. The family petitioned to receive these, did, had them tested by a forensic expert, and the remains found in the woods were proven to be those of Charles Lindbergh, Jr. Some remains of John Wilkes Booth are also accounted for. His vertebrae where Boston Corbett's bullet hit him are in the Mutter Museum, Philadelphia. http://home.att.net/~rjnorton/Lincoln83.html Perhaps these could be tested against known Booth family members and the matter put to rest.

02-10-2009, 08:26 AM	#5
crystaldawn Member Forum 4000 Club Member Join Date: Dec 17, 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,261	I thought the UM segment did a good job of making a compelling case for John Wilkes Booth to have not been killed at the barn. Speaking of Booth did anyone hear the recent news story about his father? It seems the apple didn't fall far from the tree: http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2009/ja...rmined-writte/

02-10-2009, 11:43 PM	#7
Cori aka ChrisSCrush Member Senior Member Join Date: Dec 30, 2001 Location: USA and still trying to be proud of it! Posts: 2,071	There was another Lincoln conspiracy story, about some secret papers concerning the assassination. My junior high school history teacher told us these papers were locked up unavailable for study except by some special group such as a congressional committee. Every once in a prescribed period, say 50 years, this group took a vote on whether to keep them sealed. The second vote had only been around 1965 so people would have to wait till 2015 for a chance to see the papers. I've asked around and as far as I have learned there is no truth to this.

02-21-2009, 04:32 AM	#8
Arnold_OldSchool Member Forum Regular Join Date: Jul 16, 2006 Posts: 681	Booth was shot, but paralyzed and lived for 3 hours. Some of his shattered bones were saved, so DNA should be possible

04-17-2015, 01:13 AM	#10
Cori aka ChrisSCrush Member Senior Member Join Date: Dec 30, 2001 Location: USA and still trying to be proud of it! Posts: 2,071	Moving up for the 150th anniversary (Sesquicentennial).