Obsessed Fans Not Thinking Straight (RE: Seasons 4 & 5)

[King S]

Before I start my rant i'll state that for the record, season 5 is the weakest of all; and season 4 is arguably not quite as strong as it's predecessors. I also grasp the concept that the show was predominantly about David and Maddie, so fathom the fact that people would expect to see them together.

However, I thoroughly enjoyed the latter two series, probably because it was a nice break from the heavy scenes towards the end of series 3. I'll also mention that i'm a massive fan of the David Addison character; and can't stand the Maddie Hayes character (which, as a male, probably means that the writers did their jobs correctly).

With that said, it was a welcome relief when David and Maddie physically separated during season 4, as it gave the David Addison character a chance to breath, and it was great fun seeing him interact with other women. Maddie constantly brought him down to a miserable level, on a consistent basis, and so it was nice when he and Teri actually had some non-argumentative moments.

The same goes for Annie. For people to write the name as 'Ann*e' is just pathetic. It's just a television show for crying out loud! Again, I enjoyed David's relationship with Annie as you got to see the truly happy/fun side of Addison (which wasn't often around in the Maddie sequences). And before you start, I know there are a plethora of happy moments with Maddie, so don't bother listing examples. But in my view, he seemed much happier with other women, and expresses himself far more entertainingly.

I think many people dismiss the latter series simply because they're so obsessed with seeing Bruce and Cybill together that because it didn't happen, they turned a blind eye to the material produced.

One of my favourite scenes in ML history was when David dragged Maddie into his office at the end of series 4, and told her exactly how she's responsible for all these problems. Cybill Shepherd was the star of the show, brought in to gather audiences. But by the end of the series, Bruce Willis emerged as the true star, and Shepherd disappeared like the true has-been that she turned into. And that's exactly why they couldn't even use a photo of her from the last series on the series 5 DVD cover - because LionsGate were so embarrased at what she had become! And the mini-series 'Cybill' served to highlight just how unamusing Cybill Shepherd is without Bruce Willis to play-off.

Miserable bitch. Why did she take herself so seriously?

[nurok]

It's a bad joke, dude, it's a bad joke.

[King S]

What's a bad joke? That I like David Addison but not Maddie Hayes?

Shame on me!

[laura a]

It`s great that you have your own personal opinions of the last 2 seasons but don`t you think it`s unfair to put the blame at Cybills feet. She fought tooth and nail to try and keep Maddie from turning into what you seem to hate and i will agree with you on one point and that is the season 4 and season 5 Maddie had took a change for the worse but that was by no means Cybills fault . Like you mentioned in your post it`s just a show so everything that Cybill/Maddie did on that show was down to the writers and creator.
Now i am an absolute huge fan of Bruce and his work including Moonlighting and he is a brilliant actor but please don`t dismiss Cybills work so quickly she is just as talented as Bruce !but as we all know it`s much harder for women over a certain age that haven`t had a nip and tuck or two to get the blockbusters but it seems that men can have their cake and eat it . Lets face it the film industry has a lot of egotistical testosterone( not sure if that`s how it`s spelt) pumped men pulling the strings. But back to Moonlighting Bruce and Cybill both were the stars of that show and neither one would have shined without the other .

just one more thing i would like to add ,in case you didn`t realise the show was supposed to be about David and Maddie and their love /hate relationship it was about them getting together,that was the whole premise of the series the crimes and the mysteries were just a subplot -. The show wasn`t about David and the next bit of skirt that happened to pass his way.So you`ll forgive if i don`t share your views . Btw whenever we have to write the word Annie we use the *^*&^ as a injoke .

[King S]

Originally Posted by laura a

It`s great that you have your own personal opinions of the last 2 seasons but don`t you think it`s unfair to put the blame at Cybills feet. She fought tooth and nail to try and keep Maddie from turning into what you seem to hate and i will agree with you on one point and that is the season 4 and season 5 Maddie had took a change for the worse but that was by no means Cybills fault . Like you mentioned in your post it`s just a show so everything that Cybill/Maddie did on that show was down to the writers and creator.
Now i am an absolute huge fan of Bruce and his work including Moonlighting and he is a brilliant actor but please don`t dismiss Cybills work so quickly she is just as talented as Bruce !but as we all know it`s much harder for women over a certain age that haven`t had a nip and tuck or two to get the blockbusters but it seems that men can have their cake and eat it . Lets face it the film industry has a lot of egotistical testosterone( not sure if that`s how it`s spelt) pumped men pulling the strings. But back to Moonlighting Bruce and Cybill both were the stars of that show and neither one would have shined without the other .

just one more thing i would like to add ,in case you didn`t realise the show was supposed to be about David and Maddie and their love /hate relationship it was about them getting together,that was the whole premise of the series the crimes and the mysteries were just a subplot -. The show wasn`t about David and the next bit of skirt that happened to pass his way.So you`ll forgive if i don`t share your views . Btw whenever we have to write the word Annie we use the *^*&^ as a injoke .

Hi, thanks for your post - you make some fair comments. If Cybill Shepherd hadn't been there to start with, there would be no Bruce Willis, so credit to her for being in a position to help him out. I think what i'm trying to say is that the David Addison character stands the test of time (in 2007), whereas Maddie Hayes seems even more outdated than in the late 1980's. I'm not blaming Cybill for the character she played - after all, she didn't write the script - but based on the comments i've heard, she seemed to take herself very seriously, and thought very highly of herself (ie. not willing to do a screentest with Bruce Willis). I have no time for these kind of people unfortunately. Life is short, and if 'celebs' treat themselves as some kind of extra-special people, then I have no respect for them. Based on other stories, such as Cybill refusing to do the legendary Mulberry Street dance more than once, or walking off-set during a Bruce/Glenn joke, it seems as though she thinks too highly of herself. Lighten up - after all, you're working on a comedy show, not a war documentary! Surely even her die-hard fans (pun intended) would recognise that she did take things rather seriously. Which was to the detriment of the show. Also, getting pregnant during the series? It's rather unprofessional, and in effect, she caused the changes (that you all hate) to be made.

The creators/writers made the best of a bad situation. As I said, I really liked the majority of series 4, and many episodes in series 5 were really entertaining too. The lack of David/Maddie doesn't affect me, as I just enjoy the David character, and when away from Maddie it seems to have a greater freedom.

Finally, I do acknowledge that the entire reason for the show was to be about David/Maddie. But 66 episodes on these two would've been far too much (especially at 45+ minutes), and so it was refreshing to seem him interacting with other women. If he'd stayed with Maddie from start to finish it would've been exceedingly dull. He should've ended up with her, but I guess series 6 is yet to come!

[kismet]

Thank you, Cybill.
http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/artic...05/story.jhtml

Thank you for making Bruce a star.
Thank you for doing a phenomenal job as Maddie Hayes.
Thank you for The Heartbreak Kid, TLPS etc.
Thank you for being drop dead gorgeous.
Thank you for enriching my life for almost 40 years.

Finally, Thank You Big Time for not paying attention to jackasses who write nasty comments.

[laura a]

Thanks King S for your reply but i do hope that i have changed your mind just a little (even a tinie tiny bit ) on Cybill. She was never the bad guy and i don`t know if it was a planned pregancy or not but it sure was great timing for Bruce though as he has said himself . If it hadn`t been for those twins we may have never seen Bruce as John McClane.And surely we are in a day and age where women can have careers and a family besides i`ve never have twins but i have had single pregnancies and they were tough enough for me so it must have been horrendous for Cybill trying to keep up with the demanding shooting schedules while spilling her guts down the loo at any given moment.
Now i can`t speak for everyone else on this and besides i was never there but i do know what it`s like when the guys group together and from what i`ve read over the years Bruce and Glenn were and still are close pals and it seems to me and many others that people didn`t mind so much when towards the latter shows that Bruce made a fuss over certain scenes ( for example when he played hardball over that Jimi Hendrix track that he wanted for the car smashing scene ) and there were many others times too that Bruce wasn`t happy about his character but unlike Cybill , people seemed to accomodate him alot more.
The other thing you mentioned was the fact that Cybill wouldn`t do the screen test with bruce at first. Now on the season 2 dvds Glenn covers this and explains that she refused because she was afraid that if she wasn`t up on screen what Glenn saw in his head as Maddie then he might have taken the part away from her ( see even actors have insecurities)and that`s why she said no not because she was trying to be differcult.Again maybe she felt selfconsious of the dancing not everyone can be Fred Astaire but what ever the reason for her wanting to do it only once, you have to admit that the end results were great.But hey none of us were there so really we shouldn`t judge ,besides i really don`t feel happy with the whole blame thing on anyones part . I wish that we all could just sit back enjoy the show for what it was - a masterpiece of television- BFN.King S

BTW hi kis and i`m so glad that you`ve joined in with the thread so i`m not a lone voice in defending Cybill.

[laura a]

I just wanna respond to the whole Annie thing and why we all hate her
It`s not so much the fact that we couldn`t handle either character involved with anyone else other than each other it`s just that in the David and Annie tryst the writers had made David so cold and unfeeling towards Maddie and that basic raw affection/attraction had been written out .
If you notice hardly any of us have a problem with the Sam character and that`s because the viewer still knew that even though the writers had Maddie in bed with another man it didn`t matter because she still loved David.
I hope i`m making sense.

[jkalen]

I agree with King S that seasons 4 and 5 weren't as strong as the first two.

And everything else said I just disagree completely with, I couldn't even begin to explain why. I never saw anything between Annie and David other than one was bored in her marriage and the other one was just bored. I saw no spark what so ever. But if someone did, good for you! We're all different. Though I have to ask though, are you a fan of the show, King S? Maddie was in it a lot, so if you "can't stand" her can you still watch a full episode?

[King S]

I am indeed a fan of the show, but it's a struggle to sit through Maddie Hayes scenes which David isn't in. I don't know if it's the script, her acting, or the 20 years that's passed, but she just doesn't seem funny at all. Whereas Bruce had great chemistry with everyone else (yes, even Annie), Cybill only really seemed entertaining when she had Bruce to play-off. Some of those long, drawn-out scenes between Cybill and Agnes really make me want to hit the fast-forward button. Effectively, i'm a fan of the show, but I do find myself looking for the high-points in a sea of mediocrity. Fortunately, Bruce's highs are so high that they're worth waiting for.

My next point. Several of you have criticsed my criticism of calling Cybill 'unprofessional' for becoming pregnant, and blaming her for ruining the show. At the end of the day, she made a conscious choice to have a baby, and I think that making this decision when ABC/script-writers/fellow actors were relying on her to do a job is rather selfish. Whether you agree with that or not, her pregnancy definitely changed the course of the show, and I feel as though the script-writers did a good job under the circumstances.

The only problem you didn't have an issue with the Sam character is because women have double-standards, and deem it to be acceptable if they cheat, but not if men do it. That's why you all love Sam and hate Annie.

As for my comments about Cybill being awkward to work with. You're right about the DVD commentaries stating that she was apprehensive due to her poor acting, so i'll apologise for that accusation. However, the 'one dance and one dance only' is utterly absurd. She was being paid as an actress, to perform as a character on a television show. No down-to-earth person worth their salt would turn to their bosses and declare that she's only doing one take, whether they like it or not. This to me is overwhelmingly arrogant, and for a professional actress, downright inexcusable. She clearly felt as though she was above the profession, which also didn't help. To work on a comedy show, you can't take yourself too seriously, and unfortunately for her, she did. Storming off the stage at the Bruce/Glenn joke seems very unreasonable. Now I don't know what the joke was, but I can't think that the two of them were scheming to be as malicious as possible. If everybody in the business stormed off-set everytime somebody made a joke at their expense, the fall schedules would be rather limited.

As for Cybill making Bruce a 'star'. I'm inclined to disagree (which will probably shock you). Cybill wasn't pushing for Bruce to be given the role, it was all down to Glenn. He found Bruce, he wrote the scripts, and Bruce then went on for a superb career. Yes, Cybill helped as they had great chemistry. But to say that she alone made him a 'star' is pushing it. If anyone made Bruce a star, it was he. Nobody ever carried him to a decent performance as far as I can recall.

'Jackasses who write nasty comments'! So basically, if anyone dares to say a negative comment about Cybill, they're instantly a jackass, and you'll retreat to your own little world where everything's just rosy. I've got no problem with that, but we may need to question who exactly the jackass is here in this scenario.

To clarify an earlier point (in this post), it wasn't Cybill's fault that her character deterriorated in the final seasons, but her actions were responsible for causing the changes in the script. She made the changes, not the script writers. If she has the audacity to blame anyone for the decline of the show she's very short-sighted and not accepting her part in the situation.

Finally, thanks to those of you who sent hate mail to my PM box. I apologise for generating much-needed discussion, and for thinking outside the box. The most confusing PM was somebody who said they'd put me on ignore, stating that 'Other people have a right to think the way they want'. Surely if this freedom of opinion is truly is in place, then they wouldn't have decided to censor me from now on! It's basically a case of, 'your opinion is welcome, so long as it's the same as mine'!

[dreams200377]

[QUOTE=King S]

The only problem you didn't have an issue with the Sam character is because women have double-standards, and deem it to be acceptable if they cheat, but not if men do it. That's why you all love Sam and hate Annie.

QUOTE]

I would just like to say, I do not LOVE the Sam character. I can tolerate him more than Annie because you could see Maddie's pain/confusion etc. You could FEEL that she loved David. Maddie was lonely, which she told David, and who shows up? Sam. A man in which she had had a previous history. She and david had never confessed their love for each other at this point in the series. I mean, we knew they loved each other, but they didn't. They are so insecure. The reason I hate Annie is because, #1 She's married. # 2 was Maddie's cousin (some friend) and # 3 David was sooo cold and mean to Maddie during this time. I really don't believe Maddie was deliberately mean to David during the whole Sam thing. and # 4 Lunar Eclipse...that's how the Annie issue was resolved. Ick, at least when Sam left, we got I am Curious Maddie.

As for Cybill, I love her as Maddie Hayes. I love Bruce as David Addison. And together they were pure magic. I just love Moonlighting. I personally enjoy Maddie's solo scenes more than some of David's. I think Cybill was very good in her role as Maddie Hayes. I really believed her. but, that's just my opinion.

[nurok]

To King S
I cannot accuse you of dislike to Maddie (or Cybill), in my 20 I thought in the same way (btw I never saw chemistry between David and Annie or Bruce Willis and Virginia Madsen), now when I saw many films with Bruce and many films with Cybill, I wanna say she is more talented than he, just my opinion. Bruce as a sponge has absorbed all knowledges and skills of Cybill Shepherd and other actors, and this was very useful for him. And as Bruce Willis has told "unless you have something nice to say about someone, you shouldn't say anything at all" and i've 2:30 am I'm gonna sleep.
Sorry for my bad english.

[jkalen]

I think maybe you shouldn't start a topic with the title "Obsessed Fans Not Thinking Straight" as if you're opinion is the truth and not just one person's opinion. I don't visit the other forums on sitcomsonline so much, but here we tend to try to be nice and polite. I struggle through watching some scenes myself, for personal reasons probably, but am aware of that other people see it completely different. And yes, more than anything (ok, not exactly anything) I am a Cybill fan, I just love everything that funny brave lady does.

[veronika]

You call her 'miserable bitch"? How dare you write this?!
True is... you don't know anything about her. She' s great actress. I saw almost all of her movies and I agree with Nurok. I love Bruce Willis but Cybill is more talented than he.
If you hate Maddie or David it means you're not a true fan of Moonlighting. It's simple.

[kismet]

Here's a recent article from google alert:
http://www.ugo.com/ugo/html/article/...54&sectionId=2