Belgian UFO's and UFO's in General

[Thiussat]

I enjoy UFO segments quite a lot; they are probably my second favorite segment category behind unsolved murders and missing people. The Belgian case is probably the most believable of all the UFO segments done by UM, and is probably one of the handful of UFO events in history that I think has credibility.

In the Belgian case I totally disagree with skeptics who chalk it up to "mass hallucinations" or "atmospheric disturbances." That said, I am not totally in the camp of those who believe it was a true alien event. There are a lot of questions that must be answered, in my mind, for me to accept alien visitors. Let me digress from the Belgian event for a moment and outline those. I have questions like:

#1 Why has no one ever presented a shred of physical evidence to back up claims of aliens? Never a coke can, cigarette butt, food wrapper, piece of a space ship, piece of clothing, dead body, or an authentic video of a dead body or downed craft. None of these have ever been proven to exist in any way. All of the videos that have been presented of actual "aliens" or autopsies of aliens have been shown to be hoaxes. Those who say such evidence does exist elsewhere always claim that "the government has it." "The government has it" does me no good.

#2 I need to understand the physics of the space travel these "aliens" use. I realize that a supercivilization that is much more advanced than us will have ascertained laws of nature that we perhaps do not have. However, we do know a few immutable facts about the cosmos. We know that the nearest star that would perhaps harbor life would probably be a few hundred light years away (likely much further than that). We know from Special Relativity that nothing with mass can travel at the speed of light. All of the sightings of these craft indicate that these craft do indeed have mass, therefore we know that they cannot have traveled here at the speed of light. So, it follows that their journey must take hundreds, if not thousands of years each way. For them to travel this far just to shine a few lights on the ground and play cat and mouse with F-16's seems foolish.

I do admit that there are theories in physics that allow one to "circumvent" the light barrier, but those ideas rely on one being able to create an Einstein-Rosen bridge (wormhole). Wormholes have never been proven to exist, and even if they did, it has been demonstrated that they would take immense energy to create at will; so much energy that there isn't enough energy on earth to do it. One would also need something called "exotic matter" that essentially has the exact opposite qualities of regular matter. Such matter is probably extremely rare.

There may be other ways to warp space-time (like in Star Trek), but I have seen no good theory on how it could be done without utilizing an extreme amount of mass/energy. One thing is for sure, if aliens are traveling here they are not doing it via conventional means. They aren't just boarding a ship and putting the throttle at 99% the speed of light. If they are indeed traveling the "old-fashioned way," then their life-spans must be much longer than ours.

I think it is possible that hypothetical alien beings have such technology that would appear to us like a computer would appear to Socrates, but there are still laws of nature that cannot be violated. For them to achieve this type of travel would take a fantastic technology that can bend spacetime at will. Bending spacetime is possible in theory, but, again, they must have mind-blowing technology to do it. Then there is still the problem of how their biological bodies survive such gravitational forces.

Now back to Belgium and why I think it may be a legit sighting. A few points:

#1 There were myriad of eyewitnesses from local police to the military.

#2 The craft was tracked on four different military radars at the same time, and each radar tracked the object to the same place. People familiar with radar will know that the way to verify a radar blip is to have other stations confirm that blip. In this case, four different stations did. This means that there was a real and tangible object in the sky that night. This object was also performing maneuvers that are impossible for humans to survive.

I think there was a craft in the air the night of the radar recording and I do think the F-16's were chasing a real object. Since I believe this to be true, this means I must accept one of three possibilities:

A) The craft was an American experimental craft.

B) The craft was alien.

C) The object in the sky was not a "craft" at all but a previously undiscovered natural phenomenon.

I will rule C out immediately. I think everyone would agree that there are probably not any natural phenomenon that are triangular in shape, shoot beams of light to the ground, travel at supersonic speeds, and show up on military radar.

If A is true, then one must ask: why in the world would America test fly a craft over Belgium? Why not just keep these craft in the Nevada and New Mexico deserts where they have always been tested? Moreover, we know for a fact that no human being could survive the maneuvers (G forces) of the craft that was spotted on radar. This means that if it was a test craft, then it must have been a remote control device. If it was controlled by an on-board human, this means that the government scientists have discovered a novel and revolutionary way of generating something like "anti-gravity," so that the g-forces on the pilot are negated. I find this unlikely.

There have been leaked reports in some aviation magazines over the last 20 years of a triangular craft being tested at Groom Lake, Nevada. It was code named "Aurora." Many theorize, probably correctly, that these triangular UFOs are likely either the "Aurora" or a newer incarnation of it. Remember, these same magazines leaked the existence of the Stealth fighter before it went public.

If B is true, then we are in the middle of the most spectacular event in human history. I am still skeptical of this notion, but I am fairly certain there are other advanced civilizations in our galaxy. So, who really knows?

As of now, I will stick to scenario A -- it was an American test craft. Perhaps the boys at Groom Lake thought the craft should be tested under real world conditions and, as a result, sent it over a foreign nation with a modern air force.

As for other UM UFO cases, the one that may be even more convincing than this one was the one in which the lady, and her family, were scorched with radiation after coming upon a UFO in the middle of a country road. I think the U.S. Government owes her a large settlement. I realize the government wants to keep this top secret craft under wraps, but they can still admit fault when they injure or kill civilians during test flights.

Take Care.

[Big3sCompanyFan]

I agree that the Belgian UFO case is one of the most credible I've seen and that was a great segment last night.

But that happened in the early 90s and yet you hear nothing since then! Why isn't there any follow up evidence?

Also, the only picture they showed wasn't very impressive. It just looked like 3 lights in the sky which is not that big of a deal and could've been staged or set up. But then they altered the photo to show the shape of the triangular aircraft.

WHY do you have to alter the photo to show the shape of the triangular craft. If the human eye can tell it's a triangular craft in the dark then there are cameras with flashes that can pick it up too.

It's the same thing with the Phoenix lights case. The witnesses said it was a triangular craft but if you look at the video and pics it's just a bunch of lights! You can't see any body of a triangular craft or ANY craft!

I have yet to see a pic of this "triangular" UFO from anywhere in the world that actually shows the shape of the triangular craft but instead you can only see the lights which is not as convincing.

[SiberianKiss]

America isn't the only country that has an air force and builds air craft. perhaps it was an experimental craft of a European country.

The Phoenix Lights is another really good one. The triangular V-shaped craft many many people reported isn't what the pictures and video taken are of or maybe it is. But many Right outside phoenix and the suburbs and all the way up to So Nevada is where people saw some ridiculous thing flying silently in the sky with a triangle shape, look that up, it's pretty interesting. I dunno what was in the sky in those photos and videos. Maybe that was also it although it would be more difficult to see the shape of the "craft" from so far away. Some of the witnesses to the awesome sight in the sky, it flew right over them. read this, there were apparently two separate incidents...

The Phoenix Lights, sometimes referred to as "the Lights over Phoenix", is the popular name given to a series of optical phenomena that took place in the sky over the U.S. states of Arizona, Nevada and the Mexican state of Sonora on March 13, 1997. Lights of varying descriptions were seen by thousands of people between 19:30 and 22:30 MST, in a space of about 300 miles, from the Nevada line, through Phoenix, to the edge of Tucson. There were two distinct events involved in the incident: a triangular formation of lights seen to pass over the state, and a series of stationary lights seen in the Phoenix area. The United States Air Force (USAF) identified the second group of lights as flares dropped by A-10 Warthog aircraft which were on training exercises at the Barry Goldwater Range at Luke Air Force Base. Unidentified flying objects (UFO) proponents claimed both groups of lights were part of aircraft unknown to man.

i also think the hudson valley UFO sightings were interesting, whatever they were, the people interviewed on the UM segment were credible, I remember one man didn't know what he saw, just that there was no way it was made on Earth. I guess you have to experience that to believe it. Why do I never see these things?

[SiberianKiss]

Phoenix Lights lots of great eyewitness accounts all over the state of Arizona

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Lights

[Awsi Dooger]

Hey SiberianKiss, I finally ordered that bank robbers book. Supposed to be here in a few days.



BTW, with a UFO all you have to say is Gort! Klaatu barada nikto

[SiberianKiss]

yay! i bet you'll find it hard to put down.

[Awsi Dooger]

Originally Posted by SiberianKiss

znaete russki yazik?

Never heard of her.

[SiberianKiss]

oh ok i'm just today

[Awsi Dooger]

Originally Posted by SiberianKiss

oh ok i'm just today

Well, I sidetracked this thread. Your comments on the UFOs were impressive, along with the previous posts from others. Gort! Klaatu barada nikto is the command to robot Gort in the early '50s sci-fi classic The Day the Earth Stood Still.

When I read that bank robbers book I'll post any relevant info to the sewer rat threads. The UM segment was pretty basic.

[SiberianKiss]

check out my avatar, do those guys look like the same person? they do but on the UM segment, Robert Stack said "sales people gave two composite sketches of the same man." why would they give two different sketches of the same guy? how do they know it was the same guy? how can it be two of the same but they have different hair? some of the LE (including the author of the book) did think a group of people, brothers or some family relation, perhaps were in on it. maybe the two composite sketches were taken with a lot of time in between. The second heist was over a year after the first one.

[Awsi Dooger]

Originally Posted by SiberianKiss

check out my avatar, do those guys look like the same person? they do but on the UM segment, Robert Stack said "sales people gave two composite sketches of the same man." why would they give two different sketches of the same guy? how do they know it was the same guy? how can it be two of the same but they have different hair? some of the LE (including the author of the book) did think a group of people, brothers or some family relation, perhaps were in on it. maybe the two composite sketches were taken with a lot of time in between. The second heist was over a year after the first one.

Those sketches never looked quite right to me. The wide set eyes and blank look are strange. I thought they were supposed to be two different people from the same event, but that the sketch artist wasn't that great in capturing realistic human facial features.

Yeah, it makes much more sense if they are related, or the same guy was sketched twice but a big gap in between, allowing his appearance to change.

[Thiussat]

Grrrrrrrr. My thread has been hijacked!

[James T]

I used to be a solid believer in aliens when I was younger and while I still believe it is a possibility I have come more to the conclusion that these things are government projects.

[Big3sCompanyFan]

The Belgian UFO case may not be as real as the UM segment portrayed. Here is very interesting link that debunks much of what was reported:

http://www.skepticreport.com/ufo/belgian.htm

I also think that practically every UFO case probably has a earthly rather than cosmic explanation for it. It's commonly known in psychology that people will often see what they WANT to believe.

There's definitely an earthly explanation for Roswell and even if we assume it was real then WHY the hell doesn't the planet that sent that ship send a follow up craft to find out what happened to them 60 years ago??

[moonshinegrrl]

does anyone remember episode a woman takes pictures of ufo at power lines, she uses different cameras, the image even protrudes into the little space between frames on 35mm film