Larry George Update

[themaninblack]

I searched the Alabama Department of Corrections and find he is STILL awaiting execution... over 13 years now!

[LooksLikeCRicci]

Not shocking. There was a guy in Montana named Terry Allen Langford who killed some people pretty horrifically back in 1988. I want to say he wasn't executed until 1998. Filed lots of appeals, from my understanding.

I'm curious. I wonder what the longest amount of time anyone's ever spent on death row?

INTERESTING: In researching Langford, I just found out that he was also convicted of killing an inmate during the 1991 Montana prison riots. Upstanding piece of work, that one was.... hno:

[nohwheregirl]

Originally Posted by LooksLikeCRicci

I'm curious. I wonder what the longest amount of time anyone's ever spent on death row?

I know that California is notorious for it's lengthy death penalty appeals process. I couldn't find it on the Cali Dept of Corrections website, but a secondary source said that the avg number of years spent on death row in California is 17.5 years. According to the CDoC, only 13 people have been executed since 1978 vs. 54 deaths from other causes (natural/suicide):

http://www.cya.ca.gov/ReportsResearch/docs/CIWHD.pdf

[Kane]

Originally Posted by nohwheregirl

I know that California is notorious for it's lengthy death penalty appeals process.

True. In fact, I can name three California murderers who sat on death row for at least twenty years before they were ultimately executed.

1) Stephen Wayne Anderson. He was on death row from 1981, when he was sentenced to death for the 1980 shooting death of an elderly woman, until January 29, 2002, when he was finally given the needle.

2) Donald Beardslee. In March of 1984, he was sentenced to death for killing two women in 1981, and remained on death row until his execution on January 19, 2005. (He had previously served time in jail for a murder he committed in the late 1960s.)

3) Stanley 'Tookie' Williams. He resided at the San Quentin death house for 24 years; from 1981, when he was sentenced to death for four shotgun murders, until December 13, 2005, when that sick puppy was finally put to sleep.

[Thiussat]

I found a lot of contradicting info on George. One article said his death penalty sentence had been overturned in '97, but other articles written years later claim he is still on death row. Really, I have no idea.

One of the articles said he is mentally ill. One of them said he is still waiting on getting a court appointed attorney, as Alabama is one of the worst states about finding defendants competent attorneys.

[george ramos]

The longest time a person has spent on death row is 33 years and counting. Gary Alvord was convicted of killing a woman, her mother and her grandmother in 1974. Gary is on Florida's death row. Sadly, he hasn't been executed because his lawyers claim he is mentally incompetent. It's freaking ridiculous that he will likely never be executed.

Charles Foster is the second longest Death Row inmate. He was convicted of killing a woman in 1975.


http://www.dc.state.fl.us/ActiveInma...onID=782078871

http://www.dc.state.fl.us/ActiveInma...onID=782078874

http://www.fadp.org/news/dec7-4.html

[sdb4884]

Absolute rubbish that he hasn't been executed yet. Also those other two who have been on death row for 30 + years. Give me a break

[kadrmas15]

Well there is a reason for the delay, it is called the appeals process. I know folks do not like that but that is how it is. In Alabama the system moves faster but even there people spend an average of 15 years or so on death row. I would imagine Larry George's appeals by now are in the federal stage, my guess would be he is either in U.S. District Court or possibly even at the U.S. Court of Appeals state. If the Court of Appeals turns him down than he would be in essence out of appeals and a warrant would be issued for his execution.

In Florida, Gary Alvord will NEVER be executed. It just will not happen. It would be too controversial. Alvord is well known to suffer from schizophrenia, in fact in the 1980s he was actually moved off of death row for several years and kept in a mental hospital. Alvord ran out of appeals over 10 years ago but like I said, he will never be executed just because of his mental illness being to such an extent that it would just be too controversial. George, it is not a claim, Gary Alvord is seriously mentally ill, it is not some ploy, he really is mentally ill. Hell, most people affected by that case have passed away and the few that remain say they do not care if Alvord lives, they just do not want him to ever get out of prison which is understandable. Personally, I think his sentence should have been reduced to life a long time ago.

In terms of Charles Foster in Florida, the 2nd longest serving death row inmate in Florida and in the country as a whole, the reason he has not been executed is that even though he was sentenced to death in 1975, his death sentence was reversed twice. Every time his death sentence is reversed it starts the appeals process all over again. Charles Foster had death warrants signed in 1981 and 1984 but both were stayed. Foster ran out of appeals a couple of years ago and I do think Foster will eventually be executed. Foster was 29 when he was sentenced to death, he is now 62.

[TracyLynnS]

Tommy Ziegler has been on death row in FL since 1976, I think. That's about 33 years. Generally, the consensus in the thread here devoted to his case seems to come out on the side of innocence.

While reading about different cases, I've come across several on death row in california who weren't executed until 20-22 years after their convictions, if at all. California seems to take a really long time to carry out the death sentence.

edit to add the FL dept of corrections website link to Tommy Zeigler. He's been incarcerated since July 1976.
http://www.dc.state.fl.us/ActiveInma...onID=222518127

[WishfulDreamer]

I'm not surprised. The Night Stalker was supposed to be executed by 1999 apparently, but it's been almost 20 years since sentencing (and more so since his rampage) and it hasn't been done yet. I wonder if it ever will.

[kadrmas15]

Well, Ramirez actually was not supposed to be executed in 1999. In fact, in California even if his appeals had proceeded on a 'normal' pace, by California standards he still would have spent 21, 22 years on the row. Ramirez's state appeals actually just ran out a couple of years ago, so I would say at the rate California's appeals go, even though his appeals are now in the federal system it will probably be another 5 or so years at least before his appeals run out.

In my opinion, California should just scrap their death penalty because even if you are a death penalty supporter I do not know how anyone can deny that it simply is not working in California? You guys have nearly 700 people on the row, all of whom get automatic state and federal appeals, so that is a hugely overburdened court system. Not to mention the fact that California is in the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals which is easily the most liberal Federal Appeals Court in the country, they overturn more convictions and death sentences than anyone else. They came close to overturning Kevin Cooper's convictions. Cooper you may remember is the man who murdered 4 members of a Chino Hills, California family in 1983. Cooper was nearly executed in 2004, he came within hours of it, but his execution was stayed after he was granted DNA testing. In my opinion Cooper is responsible for the murders BUT there were many problems in his case both legally and with the investigation that have contributed greatly to this thing still being drawn out. However the only avenue that Cooper has left is with the U.S. Supreme Court, all of his state and federal appeals are now exhausted. So unless the U.S. Supreme Court steps in, eventually Cooper will be re-set for execution although when this would happen is unclear as the state of California currently is not even allowed to execute people because of various problems with their lethal injection method.

Now, regardless of Coopers guilt or innocence those murders he was convicted of were brutal. Basically, Cooper was a career criminal who had escaped from the California Institution for Men prison in Chino which is right next doors to Chino Hills where the murders occurred. He escaped two days before the murders. By Coopers own admission as he testified to at his trial, he broke into a house next door to the murder victims and hid there for two days.

On the night of Saturday, June 4th, 1983 the murders occurred. Basically a husband and wife got hacked to death with a hatchet or axe and a knife. The husband had 37 separate wounds, his wife had 32 separate wounds. Their 10 year old daughter was also hacked to death, as she had 46 separate wounds. Their 8 year old son also suffered chopping wounds to his head and stabbing wounds to his throat but survived, he is now 34 years old. The 8 year old's son 11 year old friend was also staying over night and that friend was killed, the 11 year old had 26 separate wounds.

At the crime scene, a blood stained khaki green button jacket which was identical to the jackets issued to inmates at the prison where Cooper had escaped from was found and it was covered in blood. A hatchet which one of the murder weapons was found and it was found that an identical hatchet was missing from the house which Cooper had been broken into and had been staying in for the two days before the murders (the owners were away on vacation at the time). Buck knives and an ice pick were also missing from this home. One drop of blood which at the time could only be identified as belonging to a black male was found at the scene in addition to all of the victims blood. Shoeprints were found and they were found to be the same size as Kevin Coopers and they were a Pro Keds shoe which was the same kind of shoes issued to inmates at the prison that Cooper escaped from. The victims car was stolen but was later found abandoned in Long Beach, about 25 miles or so southwest of Chino Hills. Inside of that car, a hand rolled cigarette was found with Role Rite tobacco which at that time was a tobacco sold at state prison inmate stores but was not available for sale to the general public was found.

Cooper was arrested a few days later. He had initially fled to Mexico but ended up fleeing back into the United States after he was accused of raping a woman at knife point in Mexico. When Cooper was arrested he was charged with 4 counts of first degree murder, 1 count of attempted 1st degree murder, and escape from a state prison. He pled guilty to the escape charge but not guilty to the rest. On February 19th, 1985, Cooper was found guilty on all charges in addition to the special circumstance of multiple murders which made Cooper eligible for the death penalty. Cooper was then sentenced to death.

Cooper's appeal took several years to wind through the California Court System, his direct appeal resulted in his conviction being upheld by the California Supreme Court in 1991. Cooper's state habeas corpus petition was denied by the California Supreme Court in 1996. Cooper's federal habeas was denied by the U.S. District Court in 1997. His federal habeas was denied by the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in 2001. Cooper came within hours of being executed in 2004 but his habeas was granted in regards to DNA testing which came back that while it was not a match to Cooper it did not exclude him either. But anyway Coopers path is typical for that of a California death row prisoner. Cooper is one of about 20 people on California's death row that is out of appeals.

[TracyLynnS]

One drop of blood which at the time could only be identified as belonging to a black male was found at the scene in addition to all of the victims blood.

Kadrmas,

How did they determine that the blood in the 1983 Cooper case was that of a black male?

I thought that only DNA testing about 15+ years later could determine race and gender, and that 1983 blood typing could only give a type, RH factor, and determine that it was human rather than animal?

Am I just misinformed on the technology of the time? I haven't studied that science in any kind of formal way... I just noticed the information while reading the details of different cases over the years.

[TracyLynnS]

Oh by the way, everyone, sorry to have gotten this thread so far OFF the TOPIC of the Larry George case. I just got interested in some of the other details that were popping up regarding different stuff and wanted to talk about those things, too.

[WishfulDreamer]

Originally Posted by kadrmas15

Well, Ramirez actually was not supposed to be executed in 1999.

Sorry about that. For some reason I had thought that he was supposed to be executed by that date.

I do live in California and support capital punishment, but know well that California does not utilize it properly. However, I would much rather they kept the penalty in place, just to be certain that these dangerous murderers never can get out on the streets again. I know they could easily get sentenced to life without parole, but things can get VERY screwy in some cases and simple life sentences have the possibility of parole. And though it seems inconceivable that a vicious murderer can have the opportunity of parole, we've all heard of some pretty outlandish cases. I also think it should remain in place for the simple reason of being an option for the worst fugitives.

[kadrmas15]

Hey Tracy, no, no problem from my end, glad you are interested in the subjects. This was an old thread in any event so I guess it is not a problem, so hopefully Crystaldawn will not mind. The reason I brought up this other stuff was because someone had been talking about long serving death row inmates earlier in the thread. Well in terms of Cooper, I had meant to say that the one drop of blood that was preserved was identified eventually as being that of a black male but that it was not an exact match to Cooper although it did not exclude him either. Basically the testing was inconclusive. You are right in that 1983 they only had the ability to test for a person's blood type and to determine whether it was animal or human blood but as far as I know DNA testing was still in its infancy and it was not until at least the late 80's that they could determine race, maybe even longer than that.

But there were certain problems in Cooper's case. Other people confessed to having done it. The one surviving victim, who was 8 years old at the time said that 3 hispanic males had attacked him and his family, he never mentioned a black male. It was not until over 15 years after the attack that the surviving victim said it was Cooper that did it. But there was a woman who said her boyfriend had done it and who had come home in overalls covered with blood. She had given this to the police and this was documented that they received it but after Cooper's arrest the overalls mysteriously disappeared. So yes there are some holes there.

If you look up Kevin Cooper on wikipedia, there should be a link at the bottom of the page that Kevin Cooper's supporters have posted, it certainly is interesting. I am by no means convinced of the guy's innocence but I am also not entirely convinced of his guilt although I lean in the direction of guilt. However that bothers me that they have not been able to conclusively link him to this by DNA and it also bothers me that the courts are perfectly comfortable denying the appeals despite the many holes in the case.

In fact in California, the odds of any one person being executed are quite slim. Since their death penalty was re-introduced in 1978, 13 people have been executed. Many more have died of natural causes, these natural cause deaths have been increasing dramatically in recent years. Over 40 inmates have died of natural causes, already 3 or 4 have died of natural causes this year, all of whom were on the row over 20 years. Look at Bill Bradford, he passed away from natural causes last year I believe, Bradford, the notorious serial killer who was on death row for 20 years. So things clearly are dysfunctional in California.

You mentioned Tommy Zeigler, yeah I really hope he gets a new trial. He is one guy that the appeals process has helped as I am convinced he is an innocent man and without the appeals process he would have been executed long ago. He nearly got electrocuted in 1986 and he actually got his death sentence reversed in 1988 although he was re-sentenced to death in 1989, mind you he did not get a new trial as his conviction was upheld, just his death sentence was reversed. But because of that it started the appeals process all over again. However Zeigler is in essence out of appeals, he has been on death row for 33 years. He was 31 when he arrived on death row, he is now 64. I guess there is a new following and a greatly renewed effort to get Zeigler released or at least a new trial and the State's Attorney responded by recently asking the Governor of Florida to sign Zeigler's death warrant.