Berkowitz Act Alone? - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Thiussat · 04-04-2007, 11:53 AM

I saw this segment. I had seen it many, many years ago but had forgotten about it. The SOS case never was one of my favorites for some reason, so I wasn't aware of much of the info they presented.

I am of the opinion that Berkowitz did not act alone. UM raised some very good questions. Three of the composites did not look anything like Berkowitz. The one eyewitness who saw the last shooting said it was definitely not Berkowitz. Berkowitz mentioned a "John Wheaties" in his letter. They found a man named John who lived close to Berkowitz and his nickname was "Wheaties." They investiagted and he was known to be a member of a cult. He later was found dead with a shotgun blast to the head. This John Wheaties also looked just like the composites -- dead ringer.

Usually I don't consider eyewtinesses enough evidence to open or close a case, but since Berkowitz himself mentioned John Wheaties in one of his letters, and the fact that this guy looked just like 3 of the composite drawings, I do have to take it into serious consideration.

Anyone disagree with this? if so, why?

DarkDante · 04-04-2007, 12:50 PM

Well the case is kind of at a dead end if you are looking for new suspects or new angles to this case. To this day the case is still technically open, although with both of the Carrs dead and Berkowitz refusing to identify any one else involved in the alleged cult, the chances of any more arrests being made are slim to none.

I personally agree with the theory advanced by Maury Terry on this case but then again with most of the world believing and accepting that Berkowitz was the lone gunman there probably isn't much demand in finding anyone else who might have been involved.

Thiussat · 04-04-2007, 08:05 PM

Well, I am not looking for new suspects, as they are all obviously dead (or at least the known ones). I was just speaking in historical "whodunnit" terms.

What is interesting is one of the composites looked a lot like Berkowitz and the others looked a lot like the Carr bros. Then you had the cult meeting in the park, and this is documented by several witnesses and also by the remains of the dead dogs. Then you had the fact that Carr had the same symbol doodled on his phone book as Berkowitz wrote in the letters at the crime scene. Too much to ignore.

Later

Awsi Dooger · 04-04-2007, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thiussat

Later

You stole DarkDante's old line, in response to him.

Well, I thought it was funny.

DarkDante · 04-04-2007, 11:59 PM

^ You seriously need to get out more jk

Good catch there Awsi, I often wonder about the other suspects though. Are they responsible for any more homicides post "Son Of Sam" era? - Are they still at large? - Rotting away in a prison somewhere? - Set themselves on fire during one of their little bonfire meetings?

Who knows?

nohwheregirl · 04-05-2007, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awsi Dooger

You stole DarkDante's old line, in response to him.

Well, I thought it was funny.

OMG, I thought the same thing!

I'm spending way too much time with you people.

BTW, is there a good book on Son of Sam that you guys can recommend?

DarkDante · 04-05-2007, 06:18 AM

^ Yeah Maury Terry's "The Ultimate Evil" - its what the UM segment is based on although I caution you - its pretty graphic at times.

marlins3 · 09-12-2007, 03:33 PM

There's no way he acted alone. If you have any doubts, read the ultimate evil by maurey terry. I bought a hardback copy on ebay for $5. It's a great book but I had to force myself to stop reading after 6:00 pm each night. It's hard to put down but extremely spooky and disturbing (especially regarding the Moskowitz snuff film). Oddly enough, I have seen this book on ebay sell for $85. I may be willing to part with my copy for the right price.

On a side note, there are some stories (not in Terry's book) that eludes to a n affair Berkowitz had with serial killer gary evans in the early 80's (befoe Berkowitz became a born-again Christian). I've come to wonder if evans was also involved in the cult that committed the murders.

Todd Mueller · 09-12-2007, 04:00 PM

Ditto... Too much evidence that says he couldn't have done it alone.

kamy · 09-13-2007, 11:47 AM

Wait..what? Berkowitz is a born-again Christian? When did this happen?

Todd Mueller · 09-13-2007, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamy

Wait..what? Berkowitz is a born-again Christian? When did this happen?

Ever hear from a guy on death row (or in for life) that didn't become a B.A.C???

kamy · 09-14-2007, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd Mueller

Ever hear from a guy on death row (or in for life) that didn't become a B.A.C???

Yeah, I guess I had. but I never expected this guy to do it..........

Okay, so I looked up more info on this and was shocked to find David's official site and then find out that he has done a series of videos along w/ Pastor Steve Hill, an evangelist who I have personally attended his church in Las Colinas, TX! Wow! I'm shocked. ??????

marlins3 · 09-14-2007, 06:47 PM

I, too, am a Born Again Christian. I am not here to preach as this isn't the forum for it. However, I find the phenomenon of people on death row becoming born again intriguing. Sadly, I think most of them use it for publicity. From what I have studied on the Berkowitz thing, I do believe he is (one of the few) that is sincere. He has never once said he should be let off the hook for the murders (which a lot of people in his situation do) because of his faith. Also, he has a sincerity when he speaks about his life in 1977 as compared to now that is unlike others in his situation.

kadrmas15 · 09-16-2007, 05:25 AM

TM, I have heard from a few that are not "Born again Christians." Some Born again Christians in prison are legit, most are not, I actually dont think it is death row guys that become Born again Christians the most, it is guys in prison for life sentenes with parole eligibility that want to look good to increase their likelihood of getting paroled, It is because of those guys that act like that and then get out and re offend that make the ones that are actually legitimate born again not look authentic.

I also believe Berkowitz is sincere but I believe he is also probably afraid of getting killed on the outside if he were ever released from prison, he is actually safer inside than he is on the outside, although I believe his cult tried to kill Berkowitz back in the early 80's, they slashed his throat and he always refused to turn in whoever did it.

Berkowitz though became eligible for parole in 2002 and he in 2004 I believe asked now former Governor Pataki to cancel his parole hearing, Berkowitz has been denied parole in all three of his parole hearings in 2002, 2004 and 2006 but Berkowitz isnt exactly trying to get released either.

By the way, it is obvious, or should be obvious that Berkowitz did not act alone, he isnt an innocent man, as Maury Terry said, Berkowitz did do at least two of the murders and was present or involved in the others, but Berkowitz did not act alone based on what I have read on the case.

CanadianUMFan · 08-17-2008, 02:36 AM

I agree that Berkowitz is sincere in his remorse for his involvement in the Son of Sam murders and also that he did not act alone. It truly is incredible that more hasn't been done to flesh out exactly who was involved, especially if any of them are still alive. I know that the Carr brothers both died (at least one in an odd manner as I recall) within a few years of Berkowitz taking the fall for these murders.

04-04-2007, 11:53 AM	#1
Thiussat Member Forum Regular Join Date: Mar 09, 2007 Posts: 601	Berkowitz Act Alone? I saw this segment. I had seen it many, many years ago but had forgotten about it. The SOS case never was one of my favorites for some reason, so I wasn't aware of much of the info they presented. I am of the opinion that Berkowitz did not act alone. UM raised some very good questions. Three of the composites did not look anything like Berkowitz. The one eyewitness who saw the last shooting said it was definitely not Berkowitz. Berkowitz mentioned a "John Wheaties" in his letter. They found a man named John who lived close to Berkowitz and his nickname was "Wheaties." They investiagted and he was known to be a member of a cult. He later was found dead with a shotgun blast to the head. This John Wheaties also looked just like the composites -- dead ringer. Usually I don't consider eyewtinesses enough evidence to open or close a case, but since Berkowitz himself mentioned John Wheaties in one of his letters, and the fact that this guy looked just like 3 of the composite drawings, I do have to take it into serious consideration. Anyone disagree with this? if so, why?

04-04-2007, 12:50 PM	#2
DarkDante Member Senior Member Join Date: Jul 27, 2002 Posts: 1,569	Well the case is kind of at a dead end if you are looking for new suspects or new angles to this case. To this day the case is still technically open, although with both of the Carrs dead and Berkowitz refusing to identify any one else involved in the alleged cult, the chances of any more arrests being made are slim to none. I personally agree with the theory advanced by Maury Terry on this case but then again with most of the world believing and accepting that Berkowitz was the lone gunman there probably isn't much demand in finding anyone else who might have been involved.

04-04-2007, 08:05 PM	#3
Thiussat Member Forum Regular Join Date: Mar 09, 2007 Posts: 601	Well, I am not looking for new suspects, as they are all obviously dead (or at least the known ones). I was just speaking in historical "whodunnit" terms. What is interesting is one of the composites looked a lot like Berkowitz and the others looked a lot like the Carr bros. Then you had the cult meeting in the park, and this is documented by several witnesses and also by the remains of the dead dogs. Then you had the fact that Carr had the same symbol doodled on his phone book as Berkowitz wrote in the letters at the crime scene. Too much to ignore. Later

04-04-2007, 11:59 PM	#5
DarkDante Member Senior Member Join Date: Jul 27, 2002 Posts: 1,569	^ You seriously need to get out more jk Good catch there Awsi, I often wonder about the other suspects though. Are they responsible for any more homicides post "Son Of Sam" era? - Are they still at large? - Rotting away in a prison somewhere? - Set themselves on fire during one of their little bonfire meetings? Who knows?

04-05-2007, 06:18 AM	#7
DarkDante Member Senior Member Join Date: Jul 27, 2002 Posts: 1,569	^ Yeah Maury Terry's "The Ultimate Evil" - its what the UM segment is based on although I caution you - its pretty graphic at times.

09-12-2007, 03:33 PM	#8
marlins3 Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Aug 22, 2007 Posts: 474	There's no way he acted alone. If you have any doubts, read the ultimate evil by maurey terry. I bought a hardback copy on ebay for $5. It's a great book but I had to force myself to stop reading after 6:00 pm each night. It's hard to put down but extremely spooky and disturbing (especially regarding the Moskowitz snuff film). Oddly enough, I have seen this book on ebay sell for $85. I may be willing to part with my copy for the right price. On a side note, there are some stories (not in Terry's book) that eludes to a n affair Berkowitz had with serial killer gary evans in the early 80's (befoe Berkowitz became a born-again Christian). I've come to wonder if evans was also involved in the cult that committed the murders.

09-12-2007, 04:00 PM	#9
Todd Mueller Member Senior Member Join Date: Feb 11, 2005 Posts: 1,626	Ditto... Too much evidence that says he couldn't have done it alone.

09-13-2007, 11:47 AM	#10
kamy UM Fanatic Forum Regular Join Date: Apr 25, 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 625	Wait..what? Berkowitz is a born-again Christian? When did this happen?

09-14-2007, 06:47 PM	#13
marlins3 Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Aug 22, 2007 Posts: 474	I, too, am a Born Again Christian. I am not here to preach as this isn't the forum for it. However, I find the phenomenon of people on death row becoming born again intriguing. Sadly, I think most of them use it for publicity. From what I have studied on the Berkowitz thing, I do believe he is (one of the few) that is sincere. He has never once said he should be let off the hook for the murders (which a lot of people in his situation do) because of his faith. Also, he has a sincerity when he speaks about his life in 1977 as compared to now that is unlike others in his situation.

09-16-2007, 05:25 AM	#14
kadrmas15 Retired from Board 03/03/11 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 11, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,910	TM, I have heard from a few that are not "Born again Christians." Some Born again Christians in prison are legit, most are not, I actually dont think it is death row guys that become Born again Christians the most, it is guys in prison for life sentenes with parole eligibility that want to look good to increase their likelihood of getting paroled, It is because of those guys that act like that and then get out and re offend that make the ones that are actually legitimate born again not look authentic. I also believe Berkowitz is sincere but I believe he is also probably afraid of getting killed on the outside if he were ever released from prison, he is actually safer inside than he is on the outside, although I believe his cult tried to kill Berkowitz back in the early 80's, they slashed his throat and he always refused to turn in whoever did it. Berkowitz though became eligible for parole in 2002 and he in 2004 I believe asked now former Governor Pataki to cancel his parole hearing, Berkowitz has been denied parole in all three of his parole hearings in 2002, 2004 and 2006 but Berkowitz isnt exactly trying to get released either. By the way, it is obvious, or should be obvious that Berkowitz did not act alone, he isnt an innocent man, as Maury Terry said, Berkowitz did do at least two of the murders and was present or involved in the others, but Berkowitz did not act alone based on what I have read on the case.

08-17-2008, 02:36 AM	#15
CanadianUMFan Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Jun 21, 2007 Location: St Catharines, Ontario, Canada Posts: 215	I agree that Berkowitz is sincere in his remorse for his involvement in the Son of Sam murders and also that he did not act alone. It truly is incredible that more hasn't been done to flesh out exactly who was involved, especially if any of them are still alive. I know that the Carr brothers both died (at least one in an odd manner as I recall) within a few years of Berkowitz taking the fall for these murders.