"Tom Johnson's" plans - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

wiseguy182 · 02-17-2007, 07:31 AM

This was the stolen computer case. I got to thinking about it today. I'm not sure what his plans for the entire incident were, but I think his plans were somewhat ruined whatever they were. I think he would have ended up attacking Heather and her boyfriend anyways, but there a number of things that make me believe Tom Johnson had planned for things to go differently.

When he has Heather and her boyfriend wrap themselves up in the sheets, he says something to the effect of "Your company's going to get a certified check, I'm going to get my computer and that will be that." This kind of leads me to believe that he didn't plan on attacking them originally, as I don't know why he would say they were going to get a check if he planned on killing them. But then again I don't know. Did he just snap, or had he planned to kill/harm them after all?

Why did Tom Johnson stall all that time and then attack them? I believe he was waiting for his female accomplice, who never showed and instead reported a disturbance to the front desk coming from his room. I can't imagine "Tom" had originally planned to stall for that long.

I also wonder what role the female accomplice would have played, assuming the lady that came down to the desk was supposed to be the accomplice. Tom had already loaded the computer into his car, so he didn't need her there. He also ended up attacking his victims without needing his accomplice's help. So I wonder what Tom had originally intended for her to do.

And as if all that wasn't baffling enough, did he originally plan to use the gun, or did he plan to use the hammer.

This case really baffles me, any thoughts?

crystaldawn · 02-17-2007, 08:41 AM

I don't know if I believe he had an accomplice. Didn't all that lady do was report some noise? Maybe she heard some of the altercation and thought the couple was in trouble. Plus the guy victim didn't mention there was a woman did he? Thats probably just a police theory that I don't really agree with. Yes this truly was a senseless crime. They cooperated fully and its like at the last minute he decides they need to die. I can't imagine the torture the male victim went through having to hear his fiancee's murder. I wonder if he decided at the end to do it because they could identify him. Still, its just senseless.

kadrmas15 · 02-17-2007, 03:03 PM

Well I am on the fence as to whether or not the woman was an accomplice to Johnson. When you say accomplice it could b e that she was Johnson's girlfriend or wife perhaps. It could also b e she was staying in a neighboring room however I think they would have said this had she been staying in a neighboring room and if that was the case how else would she have heard the noise? I dont think she would have, I think she was involved in the scheme in some way although I think she was a relatively minor accomplice to Johnson, I am sure he probably just told her he planned on ripping off Jeremy's computer and that was it. Than at some point these plans changed and I think the woman didnt want to be involved in murder. While he had the hammer with him already, I think that is just a bizarre murder weapon when the guy pointed a small handgun at them first in order to subdue them and intimidate them. I do think the woman was connected to Johnson in some way. I just think she had originally thought he was going to rip off the computer and that was it. I think that when Jeremy and Heather went out for breakfast she briefly met back up with Johnson and he told her he was going to kill Jeremy and Heather and shortly thereafter she reported it.

wiseguy182 · 02-17-2007, 07:01 PM

Well the interesting thing here is that the lady reported the disturbance significantly earlier then when the attack actually occurred. that leads me to believe that she knew it was about to take place and wanted to do something about it before it actually went down. Unfortunately, the desk clerk didn't do anything about it. I believe this woman backed out of the whole thing before the murder took place, so she never made contact with Jeremy and Heather so that's probably why Jeremy didn't report her.

spark19 · 02-17-2007, 10:48 PM

I know that there's confusion concerning the gun, and why he pointed it at them, and instead of using it, was cruel and decided to use the hammer. I haven't seen this segment in quite sometime, and I'm assuming that the gun was not left at the scene...so could it be possible that it wasn't loaded? That may sound completely stupid...why would some guy intending to murder people (although some of you are questioning his actual intent) not bring bullets with his gun?

kadrmas15 · 02-17-2007, 11:41 PM

Well it is possible it was unloaded. I do think he had no intention of using the gun mainly because it would cause a lot of noise and he didnt want to draw attention to himself. He did leave the hammer at the scene however I believe it said in the segment that they were not able to trace where he bought it from or anything. Wiseguy you made a good point as well about the woman reporting the noise in Johnson's room BEFORE Jeremy and Heather even returned to the room from breakfast. How we should have known there was a disturbance in there before it happened unless she was in on it with Johnson? I do think this woman had originally thought that Johnson was just going to rip off the computer from Jeremy and that was it. I think that she didnt want to be involved in a murder and didnt want to see that happen and so she attempted to sabatoge it without Johnson knowing it was her that sabatoged it. Some might ask, well why wouldnt she call the police? Johnson would have known it was her that turned him in had the police showed up before he even had a chance to attack.

SP4CE INV4DERZ · 02-17-2007, 11:59 PM

I still can't get past the whole 'lie down quietly and watch my fiancee get beaten to death n do nothing'...it's just not something that any normal man would do.

kadrmas15 · 02-18-2007, 12:53 AM

Well, I dont know. Space Invaderz this will lead to another argument LOL but I must say it. I find that interesting how you of all people would fault the victim. I mean any number of things could have been rushing through Jeremy's mind at that time. To fault hin is in my opinion a bit below the belt. I mean yes, it can be wondered, "well why didnt he tackle Johnson or struggle with him so Heather could run off?" However Johnson did have a gun and they were intimidated by that. If I remember right also he hit Jeremy first and not Heather. It is something I am sure unless you were in that situation you wouldnt truly know what to do.

wiseguy182 · 02-18-2007, 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Space Invaderz

I still can't get past the whole 'lie down quietly and watch my fiancee get beaten to death n do nothing'...it's just not something that any normal man would do.

2 things:

1. By the time Tom Johnson started attacking them, both Jeremy and Heather were rolled up in sheets, so it would have been difficult for him to escape from the sheets and start attacking. If they hadn't been rolled up in sheets, there is a possibility Jeremy and Heather would have made a dash for the door.

2. Jeremy probably had no idea that Tom was going to actually attack them. I recall Jeremy saying in the segment that he was caught totally offguard when Tom turned on them, and that Tom just seemed like a normal person. He probably just figured Tom would steal the computer and that was going to be it, but it ended up being far worse.

kadrmas15 · 02-18-2007, 03:46 AM

Wiseguy, I agree with you 100 percent. I at least agree with you in terms of what you said in your latest post. I just thought attacking Jeremy by space invaderz was a bit harsh.

SP4CE INV4DERZ · 02-18-2007, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kadrmas15

Well, I dont know. Space Invaderz this will lead to another argument LOL but I must say it. I find that interesting how you of all people would fault the victim. I mean any number of things could have been rushing through Jeremy's mind at that time. To fault hin is in my opinion a bit below the belt. I mean yes, it can be wondered, "well why didnt he tackle Johnson or struggle with him so Heather could run off?" However Johnson did have a gun and they were intimidated by that. If I remember right also he hit Jeremy first and not Heather. It is something I am sure unless you were in that situation you wouldnt truly know what to do.

I'm not meaning to totally fault the guy, well maybe somewhat...still I wasn't meaning to. I don't wanna get into the whole relationship thing but to say that was his fiancee and to me the most important thing in the world to that man and I still can't see how on Earth he could stand back (or in this case lie back) and do nothing while she gets beaten to death. You are right in the sense that most likely untill you're in that situation who know's what you'd do but I do know there is no way I could just do nothing. He'd have to kill me first is what I'm saying. Maybe it's different for you, I'm not in-love with myself and would value my fiancee's life more than my own... oh no, I ended up getting 'deep'

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiseguy182

2 things:

1. By the time Tom Johnson started attacking them, both Jeremy and Heather were rolled up in sheets, so it would have been difficult for him to escape from the sheets and start attacking. If they hadn't been rolled up in sheets, there is a possibility Jeremy and Heather would have made a dash for the door.

2. Jeremy probably had no idea that Tom was going to actually attack them. I recall Jeremy saying in the segment that he was caught totally offguard when Tom turned on them, and that Tom just seemed like a normal person. He probably just figured Tom would steal the computer and that was going to be it, but it ended up being far worse.

1 - I don't think a sheet would stop him from at least trying to do something.

2 - Yeah maybe so but as soon as he was aware that his fiancee was getting beaten to death he still did nothing. Question for ya; If that had been your wife in that situation, what do you think you would have most likely done?

Sorry guys, don't mean to argue (again

) but I can't get around what I've already stated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kadrmas15

I just thought attacking Jeremy by space invaderz was a bit harsh.

Attacking.....??? Hmmm

kadrmas15 · 02-18-2007, 04:23 PM

Space Invaderz you do realize that Jeremy was hit first right? Johnson was alternating back and forth between Jeremy and Heather and beating them it wasnt like Johnson was beating Heather non-stop first and Jeremy was just watching it and lying there. Faulting the victim, pretty incredible. That would be like blaming a person that got shot because they didnt try to wrestle around with the gunman and get the gun away from him.

wiseguy182 · 02-19-2007, 04:00 AM

Good points there, kadrmas. I'll add the following in response to space invaderz latest post on this thread:

-Jeremy and Heather probably figured that this was going to be an armed robbery, but it ended up being far worse. In the majority of armed robberies, usually what happens is the person(s) getting robbed don't retaliate, they let the robber take what they want, and the robber flees without shooting/hurting anyone. However, there are of course instances where it ends up being worse, and this was one of those cases. I think by the time Jeremy realized that this was more than a robbery, it was too late - he was getting attacked himself as kadrmas mentioned. Also, I'm assuming Tom left Jeremy for dead, and I believe intended to kill him as well, so while Jeremy survived, his injuries were probably very serious. This incident happened 15 years ago, and I'm not entirely sure if times were different back then, but nowadays most companies will tell you if a robbery occurs, you just hand over the money/goods and don't retaliate. I think if Jeremy knew he was going to get attacked and possibly murdered as well as fiancee, he would have put up more resistance, but again by the time he realized it it was too late.

To answer your other question, OF COURSE I would do anything in my power to protect a loved one if that were happening to them. Notice that Jeremy does try to help Heather out as he says "if you stop screaming, he'll go away.", and that does appear to happen. Jeremy could not physically get to Heather, so he talked to her and tried to help her.

On another note, another reason I think the lady that went down to the front desk was Tom's accomplice was that Tom was probably going to stall for even longer, but was cut short as Jeremy tried to speed things along. It seems to me that Tom was waiting for something or someone, but they never showed. This is a very atypical crime in that the guilty party lets their face be seen for so long, plus Jeremy survived (probably not Tom's intentions) so he got a very good look at this face. It seems most criminals will get in and out as soon as possible.

SP4CE INV4DERZ · 02-19-2007, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiseguy182

This incident happened 15 years ago, and I'm not entirely sure if times were different back then, but nowadays most companies will tell you if a robbery occurs, you just hand over the money/goods and don't retaliate. I think if Jeremy knew he was going to get attacked and possibly murdered as well as fiancee, he would have put up more resistance, but again by the time he realized it it was too late.

I agree but once your told to lie down, face to the ground, then you have death staring you in the face. You gotta do something, catch your attacker by surprise sorta thing. Least if you die, you die a hero rather than living the next 15 years with your fiancee's death screams ringing in your ears.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiseguy182

Notice that Jeremy does try to help Heather out as he says "if you stop screaming, he'll go away.", and that does appear to happen. Jeremy could not physically get to Heather, so he talked to her and tried to help her.

I noticed that in the re-enactment he said that but I personally don't really see how that helped her at all.

kadrmas15 · 02-19-2007, 06:38 PM

Haha, wow space invaderz, I am still truly surprised by this. I guess I find that interesting. I dont know, if a guy is pointing a gun at you and tells you to get down, I think 9 times out of 10 people lie down and do as they are told. I think it is something unless you are put in that situation you honestly wouldnt know what to do so I wouldnt give Jeremy such a hard time about that when if you were in that situation you would probably lie down on the g round too.

I mean basically I dont really understand what you expected Jeremy to do or what different he could have done? The guy had a little pistol, he probably assumed it was loaded and thought if he lunged for it that Johnson would fire at him. I am assuming he thought that if they laid down that Johnson would just leave them alone. I mean what do you expect Jeremy to do? Do some kind of fiction Hollywood stunt where he lunges at Johnson and grabs for the gun and wrestles around with him on the floor? I mean I am sure in real life someone has successfully pulled that off but 9 times out of 10 if someone tried to do that they would wind up getting shot and probably killed.

Also I am sure that Heather would have rather had one of two of them survive than have both of them be dead which would have almost surely happened had Jeremy tried lunging at Johnson. It was obvious Jeremy felt horrible about it and I am sure he still does feel horrible about it. I am sure he misses Heather everyday and probably does beat himself up about wondering if there was more that he could have done. In my opinion there wasnt m ore he could have realistically done and I dont fault him for what happened. It seems you fault Jeremy just as much as Johnson for Heather's death and that is just wrong.

02-17-2007, 07:31 AM	#1
wiseguy182 Member Forum Veteran Join Date: Apr 11, 2006 Location: Wendy's salad bar Posts: 7,030	"Tom Johnson's" plans This was the stolen computer case. I got to thinking about it today. I'm not sure what his plans for the entire incident were, but I think his plans were somewhat ruined whatever they were. I think he would have ended up attacking Heather and her boyfriend anyways, but there a number of things that make me believe Tom Johnson had planned for things to go differently. When he has Heather and her boyfriend wrap themselves up in the sheets, he says something to the effect of "Your company's going to get a certified check, I'm going to get my computer and that will be that." This kind of leads me to believe that he didn't plan on attacking them originally, as I don't know why he would say they were going to get a check if he planned on killing them. But then again I don't know. Did he just snap, or had he planned to kill/harm them after all? Why did Tom Johnson stall all that time and then attack them? I believe he was waiting for his female accomplice, who never showed and instead reported a disturbance to the front desk coming from his room. I can't imagine "Tom" had originally planned to stall for that long. I also wonder what role the female accomplice would have played, assuming the lady that came down to the desk was supposed to be the accomplice. Tom had already loaded the computer into his car, so he didn't need her there. He also ended up attacking his victims without needing his accomplice's help. So I wonder what Tom had originally intended for her to do. And as if all that wasn't baffling enough, did he originally plan to use the gun, or did he plan to use the hammer. This case really baffles me, any thoughts?

02-17-2007, 08:41 AM	#2
crystaldawn Member Forum 4000 Club Member Join Date: Dec 17, 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,261	I don't know if I believe he had an accomplice. Didn't all that lady do was report some noise? Maybe she heard some of the altercation and thought the couple was in trouble. Plus the guy victim didn't mention there was a woman did he? Thats probably just a police theory that I don't really agree with. Yes this truly was a senseless crime. They cooperated fully and its like at the last minute he decides they need to die. I can't imagine the torture the male victim went through having to hear his fiancee's murder. I wonder if he decided at the end to do it because they could identify him. Still, its just senseless.

02-17-2007, 03:03 PM	#3
kadrmas15 Retired from Board 03/03/11 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 11, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,910	Well I am on the fence as to whether or not the woman was an accomplice to Johnson. When you say accomplice it could b e that she was Johnson's girlfriend or wife perhaps. It could also b e she was staying in a neighboring room however I think they would have said this had she been staying in a neighboring room and if that was the case how else would she have heard the noise? I dont think she would have, I think she was involved in the scheme in some way although I think she was a relatively minor accomplice to Johnson, I am sure he probably just told her he planned on ripping off Jeremy's computer and that was it. Than at some point these plans changed and I think the woman didnt want to be involved in murder. While he had the hammer with him already, I think that is just a bizarre murder weapon when the guy pointed a small handgun at them first in order to subdue them and intimidate them. I do think the woman was connected to Johnson in some way. I just think she had originally thought he was going to rip off the computer and that was it. I think that when Jeremy and Heather went out for breakfast she briefly met back up with Johnson and he told her he was going to kill Jeremy and Heather and shortly thereafter she reported it.

02-17-2007, 07:01 PM	#4
wiseguy182 Member Forum Veteran Join Date: Apr 11, 2006 Location: Wendy's salad bar Posts: 7,030	Well the interesting thing here is that the lady reported the disturbance significantly earlier then when the attack actually occurred. that leads me to believe that she knew it was about to take place and wanted to do something about it before it actually went down. Unfortunately, the desk clerk didn't do anything about it. I believe this woman backed out of the whole thing before the murder took place, so she never made contact with Jeremy and Heather so that's probably why Jeremy didn't report her.

02-17-2007, 10:48 PM	#5
spark19 Member Frequent Poster Join Date: May 08, 2006 Location: USA Posts: 122	I know that there's confusion concerning the gun, and why he pointed it at them, and instead of using it, was cruel and decided to use the hammer. I haven't seen this segment in quite sometime, and I'm assuming that the gun was not left at the scene...so could it be possible that it wasn't loaded? That may sound completely stupid...why would some guy intending to murder people (although some of you are questioning his actual intent) not bring bullets with his gun?

02-17-2007, 11:41 PM	#6
kadrmas15 Retired from Board 03/03/11 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 11, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,910	Well it is possible it was unloaded. I do think he had no intention of using the gun mainly because it would cause a lot of noise and he didnt want to draw attention to himself. He did leave the hammer at the scene however I believe it said in the segment that they were not able to trace where he bought it from or anything. Wiseguy you made a good point as well about the woman reporting the noise in Johnson's room BEFORE Jeremy and Heather even returned to the room from breakfast. How we should have known there was a disturbance in there before it happened unless she was in on it with Johnson? I do think this woman had originally thought that Johnson was just going to rip off the computer from Jeremy and that was it. I think that she didnt want to be involved in a murder and didnt want to see that happen and so she attempted to sabatoge it without Johnson knowing it was her that sabatoged it. Some might ask, well why wouldnt she call the police? Johnson would have known it was her that turned him in had the police showed up before he even had a chance to attack.

02-17-2007, 11:59 PM	#7
SP4CE INV4DERZ 40-0 0WN3D Forum Regular Join Date: Dec 06, 2004 Posts: 630	I still can't get past the whole 'lie down quietly and watch my fiancee get beaten to death n do nothing'...it's just not something that any normal man would do.

02-18-2007, 12:53 AM	#8
kadrmas15 Retired from Board 03/03/11 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 11, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,910	Well, I dont know. Space Invaderz this will lead to another argument LOL but I must say it. I find that interesting how you of all people would fault the victim. I mean any number of things could have been rushing through Jeremy's mind at that time. To fault hin is in my opinion a bit below the belt. I mean yes, it can be wondered, "well why didnt he tackle Johnson or struggle with him so Heather could run off?" However Johnson did have a gun and they were intimidated by that. If I remember right also he hit Jeremy first and not Heather. It is something I am sure unless you were in that situation you wouldnt truly know what to do.

02-18-2007, 03:46 AM	#10
kadrmas15 Retired from Board 03/03/11 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 11, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,910	Wiseguy, I agree with you 100 percent. I at least agree with you in terms of what you said in your latest post. I just thought attacking Jeremy by space invaderz was a bit harsh.

02-18-2007, 04:23 PM	#12
kadrmas15 Retired from Board 03/03/11 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 11, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,910	Space Invaderz you do realize that Jeremy was hit first right? Johnson was alternating back and forth between Jeremy and Heather and beating them it wasnt like Johnson was beating Heather non-stop first and Jeremy was just watching it and lying there. Faulting the victim, pretty incredible. That would be like blaming a person that got shot because they didnt try to wrestle around with the gunman and get the gun away from him.

02-19-2007, 04:00 AM	#13
wiseguy182 Member Forum Veteran Join Date: Apr 11, 2006 Location: Wendy's salad bar Posts: 7,030	Good points there, kadrmas. I'll add the following in response to space invaderz latest post on this thread: -Jeremy and Heather probably figured that this was going to be an armed robbery, but it ended up being far worse. In the majority of armed robberies, usually what happens is the person(s) getting robbed don't retaliate, they let the robber take what they want, and the robber flees without shooting/hurting anyone. However, there are of course instances where it ends up being worse, and this was one of those cases. I think by the time Jeremy realized that this was more than a robbery, it was too late - he was getting attacked himself as kadrmas mentioned. Also, I'm assuming Tom left Jeremy for dead, and I believe intended to kill him as well, so while Jeremy survived, his injuries were probably very serious. This incident happened 15 years ago, and I'm not entirely sure if times were different back then, but nowadays most companies will tell you if a robbery occurs, you just hand over the money/goods and don't retaliate. I think if Jeremy knew he was going to get attacked and possibly murdered as well as fiancee, he would have put up more resistance, but again by the time he realized it it was too late. To answer your other question, OF COURSE I would do anything in my power to protect a loved one if that were happening to them. Notice that Jeremy does try to help Heather out as he says "if you stop screaming, he'll go away.", and that does appear to happen. Jeremy could not physically get to Heather, so he talked to her and tried to help her. On another note, another reason I think the lady that went down to the front desk was Tom's accomplice was that Tom was probably going to stall for even longer, but was cut short as Jeremy tried to speed things along. It seems to me that Tom was waiting for something or someone, but they never showed. This is a very atypical crime in that the guilty party lets their face be seen for so long, plus Jeremy survived (probably not Tom's intentions) so he got a very good look at this face. It seems most criminals will get in and out as soon as possible.

02-19-2007, 06:38 PM	#15
kadrmas15 Retired from Board 03/03/11 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 11, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,910	Haha, wow space invaderz, I am still truly surprised by this. I guess I find that interesting. I dont know, if a guy is pointing a gun at you and tells you to get down, I think 9 times out of 10 people lie down and do as they are told. I think it is something unless you are put in that situation you honestly wouldnt know what to do so I wouldnt give Jeremy such a hard time about that when if you were in that situation you would probably lie down on the g round too. I mean basically I dont really understand what you expected Jeremy to do or what different he could have done? The guy had a little pistol, he probably assumed it was loaded and thought if he lunged for it that Johnson would fire at him. I am assuming he thought that if they laid down that Johnson would just leave them alone. I mean what do you expect Jeremy to do? Do some kind of fiction Hollywood stunt where he lunges at Johnson and grabs for the gun and wrestles around with him on the floor? I mean I am sure in real life someone has successfully pulled that off but 9 times out of 10 if someone tried to do that they would wind up getting shot and probably killed. Also I am sure that Heather would have rather had one of two of them survive than have both of them be dead which would have almost surely happened had Jeremy tried lunging at Johnson. It was obvious Jeremy felt horrible about it and I am sure he still does feel horrible about it. I am sure he misses Heather everyday and probably does beat himself up about wondering if there was more that he could have done. In my opinion there wasnt m ore he could have realistically done and I dont fault him for what happened. It seems you fault Jeremy just as much as Johnson for Heather's death and that is just wrong.