Frank Olsen

[greatgarrett2]

Greetings,

I just finished watching the 'Frank Olsen' segment agin this weekend.

Very intriguing and perplexing case.

I believe Frank Olsen was possibly murdered (or kept quiet) to keep him from blowing the whistle on something. He might've been a security threat. What that something could've been, the LSD in their drinks, or whatever, is open to speculation. Like the former hotel night manager said at the time, "You don't jump through a window if you're going to jump. You open the ledge and quietly slip out if it was indeed a suicide." How did Frank receive such massive injuries on other parts of his body if he just fell through a window?

I think possibly there might've been a cover-up. Plus, the two 'officials' he went to see the doctor in New York with were still alive at the time of the broadcast but refused to take part in an interview. Something fishy there, IMHO.

If he did indeed commit suicide, why did he have to JUMP through a window? Opening the ledge and simply falling to his death could've easily done it.

Any thoughts?

[DarkDante]

Its been awhile since I've seen the Olsen case but it is certainly intriguing. I think you theory holds out though just because of all the evidence that Frank's sons have compiled over the years proving that at the very least their father's death was the direct result of some horrid "LSD experiment" gone wrong as conducted by the United States Government.

Was he murdered in order to keep him quiet? - It is very possible, however it is also possible that Frank did not intentionally commit suicide but was suffering the severe after effects (flashbacks, disorientation, confusion etc.) of taking the drug which may have caused him to jump to his death.

There are many acid stories from the 60s ranging from the slightly amusing (John Lennon and George Harrison after tripping were startled to see that the bar they were at which they assumed was packed with people had in fact been empty for several hours - George Harrison later explained that somehow in between taking the acid and the realization that the bar was empty they had somehow "lost" a period of time of around 4 hours) to the more horrific (many cases have been documented of people crashing their cars, mutilating themselves or jumping out of buildings) in some cases long after their initial acid experience.

It is hard to determine what caused the death of Frank Olsen due to the factor that acid was introduced into his life only a few weeks prior to his death. LSD is such a strange and dangerous drug that it is hard to predict the effect it will have on a human being without knowing the physical and more important emotional state of the person taking it. Judging by Frank's reaction he obviously did not have what would be termed as a "good experience" with the drug.

What we do not know is if he was murdered by his comrades to keep him quiet about the drug experimentation or if his death was the result of that experimentation. It is important to remember that prior to his death, Frank was observed walking the streets of New York participating in some very bizarre behavior akin to someone who was losing touch with reality, could've Frank's fall from the window simply have been another instance where due to the the traumas he was suffering from the drug that he again lost touch with reality (albeit temporarily) and jumped to his death.

That would easily explain why he would have jumped through the window rather than someone who was intentionally committing suicide, opening the window and then jumping. Either way, I'm sure this incident would've been something the government at that time would've wanted to keep as quiet as possible due to the possible ramifcations if the knowledge of the drugging of Olsen and others became public.

[Huskerz85]

I think a person or persons got into Olson's hotel room in New York and roughed him up a little bit before tossing him out of the window. As to why this had to happen.....well I believe a likely theory could be that Olson needed to be silenced before he said some very damaging things......

On the other hand, LSD is a very dangerous and unpredictable drug, so I find it just as likely that his after-effects could have been so severe so as to have him throw himself out the hotel window.......

In any event, I cannot imagine there ever being a resolution to this case just due to the fact that it's the CIA that is involved.......the only way a conclusion could be reached, is if a former employee/agent/operative were to come forward and provide information, anonymously or otherwise.

A most disturbing story to be sure.

[Kerouac98]

I am almost sure that his story was also in a book called Acid Dreams: A social political history of LSD!

[Karl Jade]

Wasn't there a similar UM case in which a women was thrown through a window, or off a hotel balcony?

[crystaldawn]

Originally Posted by Karl Jade

Wasn't their a similar UM case in which a women was thrown through a window, or off a hotel balcony?

There was a case of Michelle Witherall who "fell" off the balcony of her apartment. Some things didn't add up and her and her husband had a history of fighting. They did charge him with her death he was acquitted.

http://www.post-gazette.com/regionst...222arrest1.asp

http://www.post-gazette.com/regionst...witherell2.asp

Another UM segment was about Sandra Orellana. She was on a business trip and her boss claims she fell off the balcony. I believe he was also acquitted. Here are a few articles:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/...in540062.shtml

http://articles.latimes.com/2002/nov...al/me-salazar6

[nohwheregirl]

Originally Posted by Kerouac98

I am almost sure that his story was also in a book called Acid Dreams: A social political history of LSD!

That doesn't surprise me. I've seen this case featured in a documentary, although I can't remember where I saw it. National Geographic Channel, History Channel, one of those.

IIRC, the U.S. gov't has all but admitted guilt in this case. They even paid the family restitution at one point.

I always found this case very compelling. Truth is truly stranger than fiction. I just feel sorry for his family.

[Karl Jade]

Originally Posted by crystaldawn

There was a case of Michelle Witherall who "fell" off the balcony of her apartment. Some things didn't add up and her and her husband had a history of fighting. They did charge him with her death he was acquitted.

http://www.post-gazette.com/regionst...222arrest1.asp

http://www.post-gazette.com/regionst...witherell2.asp

Another UM segment was about Sandra Orellana. She was on a business trip and her boss claims she fell off the balcony. I believe he was also acquitted. Here are a few articles:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/...in540062.shtml

http://articles.latimes.com/2002/nov...al/me-salazar6

Think it was the latter. Thanks for that.

[detective batman]

i've been interested in and reviewing this case for awhile. haven't seen the UM segment nor read about this case for a little bit so this is from what i can remember and (IMO) believe is true. feel free to correct me if i'm mistaken bout anything. frank olsen was an army scientist for "germ" warfare if i recall correctly he specialized in nuclear, biochemical, and biological warfare. from what i've read around this time the scientist in our country and that of britain, australia, germany, and slovakia were conducting experiments on humans involuntarily (not in the U.S.). they were using individuals who were in imprisonment to conduct these experiments on. they were trying to use "psychic driving" in other words use drugs, electroshock, deprivation, interrogation techniques, hypnosis to control and alter personality. i know it seems somewhat farfetched.

[detective batman]

if i recall correctly frank olsen died in july of 1952. well its confirmed sometime in the 1950's that he used a passport to go to germany on a business trip. i believe this is where he witnessed humans being used as guinea pigs for the "mind control" experiments. he greatly disapproved wanted nothing to do with it and wanted out (olsen shared his disapproval with some british psychiatrist) but by then he already knew too much.
(IMO) they held that meeting or party where they laced his drink with LSD in attempt to fry olsen's brain thinking it would erase his past memories. after that failed to work "they" murdered olsen and started their cover up.
(IMO) olsen was hit on the head with a hammer (probably knocked out) then the assailant used that hammer to break the glass window that he was thrown out of.

[nohwheregirl]

Originally Posted by detective batman

well its confirmed sometime in the 1950's that he used a passport to go to germany on a business trip. i believe this is where he witnessed humans being used as guinea pigs for the "mind control" experiments. he greatly disapproved wanted nothing to do with it and wanted out (olsen shared his disapproval with some british psychiatrist) but by then he already knew too much.

This part of the story was not in the UM segment. Where did you find this info? I've don't remember reading about this aspect of the case before, but it's possible that I have an I just forgot.

Also, is there some evidence that a hammer was used (i.e., a bloody hammer?) or is that just an educated guess on your part?

[detective batman]

Originally Posted by nohwheregirl

This part of the story was not in the UM segment. Where did you find this info? I've don't remember reading about this aspect of the case before, but it's possible that I have an I just forgot.

Also, is there some evidence that a hammer was used (i.e., a bloody hammer?) or is that just an educated guess on your part?

this was not featured in the UM segment (not surprised) at all considering he was murdered for national security. i'll try to post the link of the article(s) this was found in but if i do find them i'm not exactly sure how to post it. do you? if i remember correctly the whole "mind control" experiment is referred as UK ULTRA project. as for the hammer theory, i read something about that too and that they re-exhumed his body for another autopsy in the 90's. if i recall correctly the first autopsy reported cuts all over his face resulting in jumping thru the glass but the newly performed autopsy contradicts that stating there were no cuts.

[detective batman]

Originally Posted by detective batman

if i recall correctly the first autopsy reported cuts all over his face resulting in jumping thru the glass but the newly performed autopsy contradicts that stating there were no cuts.

also i think reported in the newly performed autopsy were fractures and "bruising" resulting in a blow of alot of force/energy delivered to a small circular part of olsen's head (possibly a hammer).

[nohwheregirl]

Originally Posted by detective batman

this was not featured in the UM segment (not surprised) at all considering he was murdered for national security. i'll try to post the link of the article(s) this was found in but if i do find them i'm not exactly sure how to post it. do you? if i remember correctly the whole "mind control" experiment is referred as UK ULTRA project. as for the hammer theory, i read something about that too and that they re-exhumed his body for another autopsy in the 90's. if i recall correctly the first autopsy reported cuts all over his face resulting in jumping thru the glass but the newly performed autopsy contradicts that stating there were no cuts.

UM did not shy away from the theory that he was murdered in order to protect national security.
In order to post the link, copy the link, click on the little globe icon above the reply box, then paste the link in the pop-up box.

[TracyLynnS]

I think this has been posted here before but this website is said to be run by Frank Olson's family. I clicked on the "2002 Family Statement" link at the top of the page, which seemed to have the most information

http://www.frankolsonproject.org/