Jonestown

[kane7474]

I was wondering if UM ever did a show on Jonestown. After reading into this it seems there are enough mysteries and conspiracys that UM could have devoted an entire season to it.

[JuicyCoutureGirl]

Originally Posted by kane7474

I was wondering if UM ever did a show on Jonestown. After reading into this it seems there are enough mysteries and conspiracys that UM could have devoted an entire season to it.

I was wondering the same thing too, like why didn't enough people just turn on Jones, 300+ could have done something, Jones couldn't outnumber ALL of them. And why didn't the ones who escaped take their families, especially their kids with them and instead let them die?

[ClevelandTorsoFiend]

Originally Posted by JuicyCoutureGirl

I was wondering the same thing too, like why didn't enough people just turn on Jones, 300+ could have done something, Jones couldn't outnumber ALL of them. And why didn't the ones who escaped take their families, especially their kids with them and instead let them die?

Well I dont know everything about this case, but Jones had armed guards who were loyal to him that led the people to the poison vat. Some were more willing, and many that were less willing were pressed into doing it. The ones that escaped had the oppertunity for one reason or another but couldn't lead their families past the guards easily.

I remember seeing one guy interviewed on tv who escaped into the jungle while Jones sent him on an errand to give/take a message, and didn't really have the chance to gather his family and get them out of there.

[JuicyCoutureGirl]

Originally Posted by ClevelandTorsoFiend

Well I dont know everything about this case, but Jones had armed guards who were loyal to him that led the people to the poison vat. Some were more willing, and many that were less willing were pressed into doing it. The ones that escaped had the oppertunity for one reason or another but couldn't lead their families past the guards easily.

I remember seeing one guy interviewed on tv who escaped into the jungle while Jones sent him on an errand to give/take a message, and didn't really have the chance to gather his family and get them out of there.

Wow..but if I couldn't lead my family to escape then I wouldn't go, I would die with my family, no way would I be selfish enough to leave them behind, especially a child.

[kane7474]

There is alot more information about Jonestown then what you guys seem to know. For one, the men you speak of that left their families behind did not know that the mass suicide was going to take place. They had been ordered by Jones to deliver a brief case containing 1 million in cash to the Russian embassy in Guyana, Jones was planning on moving his entire community to Russia but for unknown reasons ordered the mass suicide just after sending these guys (sounds strange huh). It is also well established that a CIA agent by the name of Richard Dwyer was at Jonestown while killings were going on. During Larry Layton's trial ( gunman that shot people at the airstrip) Mr Dwyer testified that he was at the airfield following the shootings of Congressmen Ryan and others tending to the wounded throughout the night. However in a tape that was released years later that Jim Jones made when the mass suicide began Jones clearly states " Take Dwyer down to the east building" then he says " Get Dwyer out of here before something happens to him". Since the release of the tape Richard Dwyer has refused to talk to anyone about his role in the murders both at the airstrip and at the commune.
Recently through freedom of information request the government has released all of the audio tapes found at Jonestown. There was a tape found that was made the day after the suicides, on this tape you can hear news reports of Leo Ryan's death and on several occasions you hear newscasters give the date as Novemeber 19th 1978. You can also hear a variety of background voices both with American, British and Guyannse accents. Who made this tape? Why did it take our goverment so long to release it?
It is well established that the CIA took a strong interest in Jones and his followers, it is also well documented that Congressmen Ryan was a huge thorn in the side of the CIA. Ryan had introduced legislation that would force the CIA to make public all of their actions to the U.S. congress. Leo Ryan's family has openly accused the CIA and Ricard Dwyer of plotting his death.
Many of you have proabably seen the video recording of the murders at the airstrip. NBC camera's rolled as the murders took place. When the tape was first aired it clearly showed people in military uniforms moving into a diamond formation and gunning down people with precision. The faces of some of the killers were also evident on the tape. However, for some reason that original tape was destroyed and all that remains now is a heavily edited version that shows someone shooting in the distance.
One of the biggest unanswered questions has got to be, why there were only 7 autopsies done out of the 900+ that died. Why were the bodies left to decay in the heat for two days before a coroner was allowed in? The questions around this go on and on and on. There are still over 5,000 government documents yet to be released concerning Jim Jones and the People's temple. What are they hiding?

[buckeyeblogger]

I have always been fascinated by this story because it occured prior to my cognitive state (I was only 2). It always touched me that some 270 children died.

Some 14 or 15 years ago I saw "Guyana Tragedy" during the middle of the night on WGN and it haunted me. I was completely sucked in to the story and Powers Boothe's performance as Jones. Riveting, for a TV movie.

That said, it looks like a new documentary has been created in recent months about Jonestown.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonesto...Peoples_Temple

It's scheduled to air on PBS in April.

[kane7474]

Originally Posted by buckeyeblogger

I have always been fascinated by this story because it occured prior to my cognitive state (I was only 2). It always touched me that some 270 children died.

Some 14 or 15 years ago I saw "Guyana Tragedy" during the middle of the night on WGN and it haunted me. I was completely sucked in to the story and Powers Boothe's performance as Jones. Riveting, for a TV movie.

That said, it looks like a new documentary has been created in recent months about Jonestown.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonesto...Peoples_Temple

It's scheduled to air on PBS in April.

There was a new documentary that has been airing on the history channel. Its not bad but it really does not explore all the unanswered questions. Like all the others I have seen there is no mention made of Richard Dwyer, its like he was never there. It is definatley told from the point of view of Jone's enemies.

[buckeyeblogger]

Originally Posted by kane7474

It is definatley told from the point of view of Jone's enemies.

You mean Jones has non-enemies?

[LooksLikeCRicci]

I was gonna say, "You mean Jones was a GOOD guy?"

[Awsi Dooger]

Originally Posted by kane7474

It is also well established that a CIA agent by the name of Richard Dwyer was at Jonestown while killings were going on. During Larry Layton's trial ( gunman that shot people at the airstrip) Mr Dwyer testified that he was at the airfield following the shootings of Congressmen Ryan and others tending to the wounded throughout the night. However in a tape that was released years later that Jim Jones made when the mass suicide began Jones clearly states " Take Dwyer down to the east building" then he says " Get Dwyer out of here before something happens to him". Since the release of the tape Richard Dwyer has refused to talk to anyone about his role in the murders both at the airstrip and at the commune.

You always prefer the spooky CIA angle. But I've seen much more tame versions of Dwyer's involvement. In fact, many Jonestown experts believe the reference on the tape to Dwyer is nothing more than a misidentification by Jones, that he was actually talking about one of the Temple lawyers who looked a lot like Dwyer, and he happened to confuse the names in a time of chaos. I forget the name of the person but it made a lot of sense when I read it a few years ago. In fact, there's a book by one of the surviving Temple lawyers that seems to corroborate it.

[LooksLikeCRicci]

Originally Posted by Awsi Dooger

You always prefer the spooky CIA angle.

I'm glad you said it, Awsi. I've thought the same thing. Kane7474 is a fan of the conspiracy theories, that's for sure.

[Awsi Dooger]

Here's what I was referring to in my previous post. This isn't the source I was looking for, the one I read years ago, but it's got a similar theme, just not as detailed:

http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/AboutJones.../Q042comm.html

"The specific reference to Richard Dwyer is seemingly the most incomprehensible and hence most troubling detail. Everything else in the tape can be explained in context, but on the surface, this cannot. In my opinion, though, this does not prove the tape has been faked (especially since if someone takes the trouble to create a fiction to cover the truth of what happened, that agency would certainly edit out a loose end such as a man purported to be the agent who oversaw the carnage) or that something more sinister happened at Jonestown.

What I believe is that the tape simply shows that Jim Jones made a mistake. Moreover, the evidence of the mistake exists alongside the misidentification itself.

Jones says: "Take Dwyer on down to the East House... Take Dwyer." It doesn't immediately happen, so Jones repeats: "Get Dwyer out of here before something happens to him." After a pause, he says: "Dwyer? I'm not talking about Ujara. I said" – and he is emphatic about this – "Dwyer." This order and its repetition in the course of a few minutes tells me that the person Jones addresses is confused, and asks several times for clarification about who Jones meant.

It could be that Jones eventually corrects himself. Later in the tape – some time after his instructions about Dwyer – Jones says, "Make sure those attorneys stay where they belong." The attorneys are unnamed, and Jones' voice indicates he can't remember their names.

In fact, the only people who were not members of the Jonestown community but who stayed behind after the congressional party left on 18 November, were two Temple attorneys, Charles Garry and Mark Lane. The former, like Dwyer, was white, late middle-aged, with white hair. Could this be the man Jones called Dwyer?

Finally, according to Mark Lane in his book, The Strongest Poison, the two attorneys had been escorted to the East House, the place Jones had directed "Dwyer" to be taken.

For these reasons, I believe that Jones was instructing people to escort Garry, not Dwyer, to the East House. While there is certainly room for argument on this point, I think this is the most plausible explanation."

[Awsi Dooger]

Originally Posted by LooksLikeCRicci

I'm glad you said it, Awsi. I've thought the same thing. Kane7474 is a fan of the conspiracy theories, that's for sure.

I very seldom agree with that line of thinking but kane7474 always puts plenty of good detail in there and forms a well-structured argument.

[swtgrl4321]

I remember watching a Jim Jones movie with my mom years ago. I think it was on Lifetime, but can't be positive. Looking back I think my parents let me watch a lot of things on TV that I shouldn't have been watching. After watching it I was scared of preachers, kool-aid, and being slapped in church. My opinion is that Jones was simply a religious control freak who had a sixth sense for targeting vulnerable people. He moved slowly and attacked when he knew he was going to be cornered and stopped. I definitely remember the last part of the movie, it was heartbreaking. I can't imagine feeding my child poison kool-aid.

[LooksLikeCRicci]

Originally Posted by Awsi Dooger

I very seldom agree with that line of thinking but kane7474 always puts plenty of good detail in there and forms a well-structured argument.

Yes, he does. He was a very formidable opponent during our long debates in re: the death of Kurt Cobain. The comment was meant as a joke and I hope Kane7474 took it that way.