Adam Walsh - Jeffery Dahlmer connection?

[wiseguy182]

FBI agent believes a possible connection should be re-examined. Here's more:

http://wfrv.com/local/local_story_033110000.html

[kadrmas15]

Hmm, that is an interesting connection, it was one I would have never thought of. I knew Dahmer had been in the Army at one time but I had no idea he had lived in South Florida in the early 1980's when Adam disappeared. I think it is likely Dahmer did it, there is certainly a decent chance.

[LooksLikeCRicci]

That is interesting. I could be wrong here, but didn't DNA match Otis Toole to Adam Walsh's murder? I may have to read Tears of Rage over again. In any case, if John Walsh is thinking that they need to investigate further, perhaps Toole wasn't linked to Adam's murder by DNA.

In any case, interesting new development. Thanks for posting!

[Thinman]

No way. Ottis Toole is clearly the murderer of Adam Walsh. Not only did he confess twice, but he knew things about Adam and the scene where Adam's head was found, that only the killer could know. John Walsh even stated that he is 99.9% certain that Toole is the killer. There never was a DNA match because the bumbling Hollywood police department lost Toole's impounded car. The car contained massive amounts of blood stains, by the way.

[Awsi Dooger]

I don't think Ottis Toole had anything to do with it. There are indications that the so-called inside info was nothing more than an overzealous police officer feeding Toole the information. That is hardly unheard of.

Consider how innacurate his initial "confession" was. He put Henry Lucas with him, even though it turned out Lucas was in jail at the time. His description of what Adam was wearing was not even close. Then naturally he had to go for the dramatic aspect, one of them holding Adam down while the other decapacitated him.

Plus, and this laughable claim is what made me reject Toole, he said he convinced Adam to go with him after 15 minutes of talking to him in the Sears parking lot. That's obscene. A situation like that doesn't take 1/10 of that time. We've seen that in case after case. It's basically grab and go. The career criminals know they can't risk anything longer. Even if there is conversation it is very brief. Just imagine someone who looked like Toole being seen talking to a kid like Adam Walsh for 15 minutes, or anything in that range, in a Sears parking lot. I've been to that mall and it is very well traveled. There would have been dozens of witnesses to come forward. Plus, he said he saw Adam running frantically around the parking lot. That doesn't match any description of Adam or his personality.

John Walsh obviously wants to believe it was Toole, but even Walsh's descriptions are contradictory. I saw him on Larry King several years ago say that a grandmother placed Toole in the same department of the store where Adam was last seen. But it turns out a young newly hired female security guard asked Adam and other children to leave the store. Toole in both so-called confessions said he found Adam outside the store.

Walsh also says authorities had possession of carpet sections from Toole's car, but I've seen that denied, that the car was in possession of a different law enforcement agency and the carpet samples never separated.

Remember, at the point Toole "confessed" in late 1983 two movies were in the news regarding child abductions, one a TV movie about Adam and a theater movie with a similar theme. It was perfect timing to claim responsibility and be granted widespread infamy.

Dahmer, as far as I know, did not have a history of targeting children of Adam's age. My memory is his victims were generally young teens up to 30s. The known victims of Toole and Lucas were also older.

[Thinman]

Points well taken. However, I have read Tears of Rage and believe firmly that it was Toole. And, if John Walsh is that sold on it, so am I.

[Awsi Dooger]

Anderson Cooper did a long segment on the Adam Walsh/Jeffrey Dahmer possibility tonight. More interesting than I expected.

When Dahmer was arrested in 1991, two people who claim they were at the Hollywood mall in 1981 said they instantly recognized Dahmer as the person who acted strangely that day. One said the person picked up a young boy and forcibly threw him into a blue van. The other said he saw the man he identifies at Dahmer go into the toy department where Reve left Adam to play with the video games. Again, that doesn't jive with the report that Adam was led outside.

Dahmer was apparently working 20 minutes away and may have had access to a blue van as part of his job.

Park Dietz was interviewed on the program and brought up some of the same things I did, that Dahmer never showed preference for boys of Adam's age. He also said that Dahmer never abducted victims, as opposed to various methods of seducing them into his apartment.

They also showed a brief clip of John Walsh, who said the case was back into the laps of the Hollywood police department.

I couldn't completely throw out Toole, or even Dahmer, but I'd guess it was someone whose name has never surfaced. Bringing up Dahmer's name reminds me of Kaczynski as a suspect in the Zodiac murders, or John List possible as DB Cooper. A high profile crime makes headlines, and then the person's background is tracked to the point he's claimed as a suspect in any unsolved crime that seems to match a location or point in time.

[wiseguy182]

I agree with Awsi: I can't rule out either Toole or Dahmer, but it's most likely neither of the two. In addition to what Awsi said about Dahmer's (and Toole's) victims being older, I read that all but one of Dahmer's victims were murdered between 1989 and 1991, in eihther Wisconsin or Ohio. So, Florida in 1981 doesn't fit either criteria. Not that is has to, but the odds would probably have it. If there is one thing that points to Dahmer, it's that we do know Adam was dismembered. Most of Dahmer's victims were dismembered. However, Dahmer usually kept the skull, so the fact that Adam's skull was found again leads me to believe it isn't Dahmer.

The Anderson Cooper segment I saw ran about 5 minutes so I must have got the short form version. It was around 5:30 this morning, so it must have been the rerun. I don't necessarily believe Ottis Toole's two confessions to the murder of Adam Welsh mean he is guilty: They had a clip of Toole on and he seemed quite insane and he probably didn't know what he was saying. I don't have the greatest knowledge on this case, but I want to know why on Earth did the security guard threw Adam out of the mall. One thing I do know: the way the police (in this case, the Hollywood FL dept) have colosally bungled this case, it makes me believe this would be a perfect case for Unsolved Mysteries.

[Thinman]

I hate that I missed the Anderson Cooper segment. If it comes on again, someone please alert the board.

Concerning Tears of Rage, has anyone here read it? I have, and it goes into depth on Ottis Toole and does a good job of convincing the reader that he was responsible for Adam's death. Plus, it was co-written by John Walsh, who firmly believes in Toole's guilt. I would have my doubts also if it was written by a reporter/author trying to push his own theories and/or agendas.

[Ireneparalegal]

Dahmer had nothing to gain nor lose by admitting to be the killer. Dahmer denied any involvement in his murder.

[greatgarrett2]

Originally Posted by Ireneparalegal

Dahmer had nothing to gain nor lose by admitting to be the killer. Dahmer denied any involvement in his murder.

That's what I think, just like the Unabomber had nothing to lose or gain saying he was Zodaic.....also, most all of Dahmer's other victim's were in the same adolescent/young man age group, weren't they? (The ones he murdered) That was Dahmer's 'niche'.

Just my thoughts.....

[Awsi Dooger]

Originally Posted by wiseguy182

I don't have the greatest knowledge on this case, but I want to know why on Earth did the security guard threw Adam out of the mall.

That aspect didn't surface until 1996, when the media got access to official paperwork on the case. A 17-year-old girl who had been hired as a security guard a week earlier was summoned to the toy department to break up an argument. There were a couple of black kids and two white kids, Adam and a 10 year old. The young security guard apparently thought Adam was with the 10 year old. She told the two groups of kids to leave the store, by separate exits. The Walsh's said Adam was very respectful of authority so he probably went along with it.

Yeah, I saw a shorter version of the Anderson Cooper segment on other shows later in the night. The longer segment included quite a bit with the writer who investigated the Dahmer aspect. His theory is another boy, older and more muscular, was Dahmer's target at the mall, but once that failed Dahmer turned to Adam instead. The writer had the kid's name and made a flat statement that there was "no doubt" the other boy was the original target. Sounded like the typical conspiracy stuff to me, conveniently making things up to try to explain this and that.

Dahmer was working at a sub shop at the time.

The second witness seemed very credible, saying he saw a young man pick the young boy up by one arm and toss him into the blue van before speeding away. The other witness was bizarre, in appearance and description of what he said. He claimed the young man shouted at him from only a few feet away, something innocuous. Then he said he followed the guy straight to the toy department. Both said they reported the incident to the Hollywood police department but were never contacted. The CNN program indicated neither one had previously told their story on camera.

There's probably a transcript of that program on CNN's website, but I don't know that it will re-air since it was a daily version of Anderson Cooper's show, not a special program.

[kadrmas15]

Well Dahmer killed Steven Hicks in 1978 and I have a hard time believing he didnt kill again until 1989. I know for a long time that was the popular theory but Dahmer I believe also confessed to a murder from 1987 and I think another one from 1981 that wasnt Adam Walsh. The Germans I know were also looking at Dahmer to see if he did any murders over there while he was stationed there while in the Army.

[LooksLikeCRicci]

I don't know. It doesn't make any sense to me that Dahmer would be the killer of Adam Walsh. While the crime of decapitation certainly fits Dahmer's MO, I sincerely do not see him as being Adam's killer. It has been mentioned on the board (in addition to my independent studies of Dahmer,) and I am a firm believer that Dahmer killed males in their late teens to mid twenties. Adam Walsh clearly does not fit that profile. Dahmer used these victims for sexual purposes and saved numerous tokens from his victims in his apartment. To my knowledge, there was nothing found in his apartment linking him to Adam Walsh's murder.

I bought Tears of Rage out of a clearance bin at Borders several years back (for $1!) and while I can understand why Walsh would want to see Adam's case reinvestigated, I tend to believe that Dahmer was NOT Adam's killer. I'm not sure if Toole was, either, but in my humble opinion, Toole is more likely of a suspect than Dahmer. As a final note, I DO agree with the comment made earlier: Walsh and the ghostwriter do a VERY convincing job of making the reader believe Otis Toole was responsible for the death of Adam Walsh. The part of me that worked criminal defense, however, does see the arguments pointing against it.

I hate to say this, but I don't think we'll ever know the truth behind Adam's death.

[wiseguy182]

Originally Posted by Awsi Dooger

The other witness was bizarre, in appearance and description of what he said. He claimed the young man shouted at him from only a few feet away, something innocuous. Then he said he followed the guy straight to the toy department.

I concur. The first witness looked and acted really bizarre, and I didn't get a good vibe off of him at all. The way I remember it, the witness said that the guy he saw said something to the effect of "Nice day outside, isn't it?" For whatever reason, the witness thought this was suspicious, and followed the guy around in the mall. I would trust the second witness more. Of course, the Hollywood, FL police dept. couldn't be bothered to investigate either of these leads.