Son of Sam - Do You Think Berkowitz was alone, or was he part of a gang of killers? - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

johnnyangel · 01-05-2007, 11:45 PM

My theory is similar to that of Maury Terry's on the episode, where he was a part of a gang of killers and maybe pulled off 2-3 of the 7.

The composites - 2 of them look just like John Carr, the very first composite (guy with just curly hair and striped shirt) looked like Michael Carr.

The guy withe the spikey hair who killed Moskowitz couldn't have been Berkowitz said witnesses, he ran to fast and just looked nothing like him.

This was a fascintaiong episode, even some of the background music and sound effects were chilling.

Huskerz85 · 01-06-2007, 01:01 AM

I think the Carrs and a small number of people.....perhaps anywhere from 2-4 others, including Berkowitz were in on the actual killings....though if Berkowitz and the Carrs were involved in a Satanic Cult......there could be more who knew about the whole deal.......

LooksLikeCRicci · 01-06-2007, 01:42 AM

I must be in the minority. I think Berkowitz acted alone.

DarkDante · 01-06-2007, 03:12 AM

While I'm not sure if we can take Berkowitz's affimative confirmation of everything Maury Terry said as the final word on the subject...I do however feel there is enough evidence to draw a logical conclusion that Berkowitz could have not been the lone killer at least in the Stacy Moskowitz killing.

I feel it would be highly improbable for the murder of Moskowitz to have been committed by Berkowitz being that his movements around the city that night suggest that if anything he was playing the role of accomplice that night. It is more probable that one of the Carrs or another murdered Moskowitz and possibly several other of the S.O.S. victims being that some of the composites bore an uncanny resemblance to John Carr (and not David Berkowitz)

As a final note in my opinion this is the best UM segment ever. I have first hand knowledge of people not being able to sleep FOR DAYS (thats right days!) after seeing this segment and a number of these same individuals were not at all phased by horror flims or stuff of that nature. UM truly pulled off something very dark and creepy with this one.

clj124 · 01-06-2007, 04:29 AM

One reason I kind of belive berkowtiz is that unlike other killers who say I am innocent let me go the man admits to killing people and says he belongs in prison so there might have been other people invloved.

Huskerz85 · 01-06-2007, 04:08 PM

Berkowitz could've been the lone gunman on some of the hits.........but I'm more likely to believe he was a patsy of sorts.

If you watch the segment again, you'll see a lil map of the area and hear Robert Stack describe how Berkowitz was spotted by a neighbor (Pearl something or other).......and then, a little more than a minute later, shots ring out. Then Tommy Zaino or someone remarks on how it'd be highly improbable for a pudgeball like Berkowitz to cover that great of a distance in that short amount of time.

Later on, when describing the interview, Stack's talking about the interviews Berkowitz gave and there's a question "Asked whether or not the Carrs were killed to ensure their silence, Berkowitz responded: Yes

So unless he was lying for some unknown reason.......that would seem to point to him going down as a patsy, part of a larger conspiracy

Dislimb · 01-06-2007, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LooksLikeCRicci

I must be in the minority. I think Berkowitz acted alone.

crystaldawn · 01-06-2007, 05:34 PM

I don't think he acted alone. Some of the composite sketches didn't resemble him at all.

Awsi Dooger · 01-07-2007, 03:01 AM

Alone.

Like the EAR-ONS case, there's always the possibility a similar event in the same time frame was wrongly attributed to the serial offender by law enforcement, but that hardly means there was a conspiracy, or multiple criminals acting together.

Huskerz85 · 01-07-2007, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awsi Dooger

Alone.

Like the EAR-ONS case, there's always the possibility a similar event in the same time frame was wrongly attributed to the serial offender by law enforcement, but that hardly means there was a conspiracy, or multiple criminals acting together.

This goes back to the more improbable of my two theories........

Berkowitz could've heard about what the Carrs were doing, even had intimate knowledge of it.........then gone off and done some killing on his own and later after he was caught, try to hang the whole thing on the Carrs and their Cult.

This of course would fly in the face of just about everything that was said/mentioned on that segment.......

clj124 · 01-08-2007, 11:15 AM

What I remember the most about this segment was the terrible actor who played berkowitz. The guys eyes were so over the top it was funny.

brando316 · 01-08-2007, 11:38 AM

I remember seeing an interview with Berkowitz where he admitted he wasn't the only killer. He said he didn't think the police ever really believed he was the only killer. He confirmed that both of the Carrs were shooters and the interviewer named each victim and Berkowitz had said which ones he had done the shooting. He also said that there were some shooters that at the time of the interview, were still alive.

drtom1966 · 01-08-2007, 04:59 PM

Maury Terry's book, "The Ultimate Evil," is an excellent read. He makes a very compelling case for multiple participants in the Son of Sam killings. And -- speaking of not being able to sleep for days -- I had bad, bad, BAD nightmares for weeks after reading the book! So...even though it's a fantastic book...YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!

AVERMAN · 01-12-2007, 03:05 AM

I don't think he acted alone. Especially at the last murder.

As seen in the Son of Sam segment on UM, A witness saw Berkowitz 1 minute before the shootings, SOME DISTANCE FROM THE SHOOTING LOCATION. It is believed that it is impossible for someone to travel that distance in that short time.

According to Wikipedia, "Berkowitz claims to have been a Satanist at the time of the murders, and suggested that he was part of a violent cult which actually perpetrated the crimes. Berkowitz claims that he did not act alone in the killings: he says he was part of an occult group which sacrificed animals to Satan and which ran a child pornography racket. Though he claims to be innocent of murder, Berkowitz says his involvement in other crimes should see him imprisoned for the rest of his life."

WatchYourLips · 01-12-2007, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVERMAN

I don't think he acted alone. Especially at the last murder.

As seen in the Son of Sam segment on UM, A witness saw Berkowitz 1 minute before the shootings, SOME DISTANCE FROM THE SHOOTING LOCATION. It is believed that it is impossible for someone to travel that distance in that short time.

According to Wikipedia, "Berkowitz claims to have been a Satanist at the time of the murders, and suggested that he was part of a violent cult which actually perpetrated the crimes. Berkowitz claims that he did not act alone in the killings: he says he was part of an occult group which sacrificed animals to Satan and which ran a child pornography racket. Though he claims to be innocent of murder, Berkowitz says his involvement in other crimes should see him imprisoned for the rest of his life."

Maybe I can buy that he didn't act alone, but I definately don't think he was "innocent of murder."

01-05-2007, 11:45 PM	#1
johnnyangel Member Frequent Poster Join Date: May 08, 2002 Posts: 329	Son of Sam - Do You Think Berkowitz was alone, or was he part of a gang of killers? My theory is similar to that of Maury Terry's on the episode, where he was a part of a gang of killers and maybe pulled off 2-3 of the 7. The composites - 2 of them look just like John Carr, the very first composite (guy with just curly hair and striped shirt) looked like Michael Carr. The guy withe the spikey hair who killed Moskowitz couldn't have been Berkowitz said witnesses, he ran to fast and just looked nothing like him. This was a fascintaiong episode, even some of the background music and sound effects were chilling.

01-08-2007, 11:38 AM	#12
brando316 Member Occasional Poster Join Date: May 18, 2002 Posts: 18	I remember seeing an interview with Berkowitz where he admitted he wasn't the only killer. He said he didn't think the police ever really believed he was the only killer. He confirmed that both of the Carrs were shooters and the interviewer named each victim and Berkowitz had said which ones he had done the shooting. He also said that there were some shooters that at the time of the interview, were still alive.
	__________________ Brando

01-08-2007, 04:59 PM	#13
drtom1966 Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Jul 22, 2005 Location: Collinsville, Oklahoma Posts: 28	I don't know if Berkowitz acted alone or with others, but... Maury Terry's book, "The Ultimate Evil," is an excellent read. He makes a very compelling case for multiple participants in the Son of Sam killings. And -- speaking of not being able to sleep for days -- I had bad, bad, BAD nightmares for weeks after reading the book! So...even though it's a fantastic book...YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!
	__________________ "I knew that he knew that I knew that he knew that I knew that he knew that I knew that he knew that I knew that he knew that I knew that he had done this." -- John Catchings (1947-1992)

01-06-2007, 01:01 AM	#2
Huskerz85 Member Forum Regular Join Date: Dec 31, 2006 Location: Westeros Posts: 740	I think the Carrs and a small number of people.....perhaps anywhere from 2-4 others, including Berkowitz were in on the actual killings....though if Berkowitz and the Carrs were involved in a Satanic Cult......there could be more who knew about the whole deal.......

01-06-2007, 01:42 AM	#3
LooksLikeCRicci Likes to live in a clean house Moderator Forum 4000 Club Member Join Date: Nov 27, 2005 Posts: 4,050	I must be in the minority. I think Berkowitz acted alone.

01-06-2007, 03:12 AM	#4
DarkDante Member Senior Member Join Date: Jul 27, 2002 Posts: 1,569	While I'm not sure if we can take Berkowitz's affimative confirmation of everything Maury Terry said as the final word on the subject...I do however feel there is enough evidence to draw a logical conclusion that Berkowitz could have not been the lone killer at least in the Stacy Moskowitz killing. I feel it would be highly improbable for the murder of Moskowitz to have been committed by Berkowitz being that his movements around the city that night suggest that if anything he was playing the role of accomplice that night. It is more probable that one of the Carrs or another murdered Moskowitz and possibly several other of the S.O.S. victims being that some of the composites bore an uncanny resemblance to John Carr (and not David Berkowitz) As a final note in my opinion this is the best UM segment ever. I have first hand knowledge of people not being able to sleep FOR DAYS (thats right days!) after seeing this segment and a number of these same individuals were not at all phased by horror flims or stuff of that nature. UM truly pulled off something very dark and creepy with this one.

01-06-2007, 04:29 AM	#5
clj124 Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Dec 11, 2006 Posts: 12	One reason I kind of belive berkowtiz is that unlike other killers who say I am innocent let me go the man admits to killing people and says he belongs in prison so there might have been other people invloved.

01-06-2007, 04:08 PM	#6
Huskerz85 Member Forum Regular Join Date: Dec 31, 2006 Location: Westeros Posts: 740	Berkowitz could've been the lone gunman on some of the hits.........but I'm more likely to believe he was a patsy of sorts. If you watch the segment again, you'll see a lil map of the area and hear Robert Stack describe how Berkowitz was spotted by a neighbor (Pearl something or other).......and then, a little more than a minute later, shots ring out. Then Tommy Zaino or someone remarks on how it'd be highly improbable for a pudgeball like Berkowitz to cover that great of a distance in that short amount of time. Later on, when describing the interview, Stack's talking about the interviews Berkowitz gave and there's a question "Asked whether or not the Carrs were killed to ensure their silence, Berkowitz responded: Yes So unless he was lying for some unknown reason.......that would seem to point to him going down as a patsy, part of a larger conspiracy

01-06-2007, 05:34 PM	#8
crystaldawn Member Forum 4000 Club Member Join Date: Dec 17, 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,261	I don't think he acted alone. Some of the composite sketches didn't resemble him at all.

01-07-2007, 03:01 AM	#9
Awsi Dooger Member Senior Member Join Date: Feb 18, 2003 Location: Miami Posts: 1,537	Alone. Like the EAR-ONS case, there's always the possibility a similar event in the same time frame was wrongly attributed to the serial offender by law enforcement, but that hardly means there was a conspiracy, or multiple criminals acting together.

01-08-2007, 11:15 AM	#11
clj124 Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Dec 11, 2006 Posts: 12	What I remember the most about this segment was the terrible actor who played berkowitz. The guys eyes were so over the top it was funny.

01-12-2007, 03:05 AM	#14
AVERMAN Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Jan 12, 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 241	I don't think he acted alone. Especially at the last murder. As seen in the Son of Sam segment on UM, A witness saw Berkowitz 1 minute before the shootings, SOME DISTANCE FROM THE SHOOTING LOCATION. It is believed that it is impossible for someone to travel that distance in that short time. According to Wikipedia, "Berkowitz claims to have been a Satanist at the time of the murders, and suggested that he was part of a violent cult which actually perpetrated the crimes. Berkowitz claims that he did not act alone in the killings: he says he was part of an occult group which sacrificed animals to Satan and which ran a child pornography racket. Though he claims to be innocent of murder, Berkowitz says his involvement in other crimes should see him imprisoned for the rest of his life."