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lilhave · 12-08-2006, 01:42 PM

Lawyer argues sex with dead deer not crime

MARIA LOCKWOOD, SUPERIOR DAILY TELEGRAM

Nov. 16, 2006

Prosecution of a Douglas County case involving alleged sexual contact with a dead deer may hinge on the legal definition of the word “animal.”

Bryan James Hathaway, 20, of Superior faces a misdemeanor charge of sexual gratification with an animal. He is accused of having sex with a dead deer he saw beside Stinson Avenue on Oct. 11.

A motion filed last week by his attorney, public defender Fredric Anderson, argued that because the deer was dead, it was not considered an animal and the charge should be dismissed.

“The statute does not prohibit one from having sex with a carcass,” Anderson wrote.

Judge Michael Lucci heard the motion Tuesday.

“I’m a little surprised this issue hasn’t been tackled before in another case,” Lucci said.

The Webster’s dictionary defines “animal” as “any of a kingdom of living beings,” Anderson said.

If you include carcasses in that definition, he said, “you really go down a slippery slope with absurd results.”

Anderson argued: When does a turkey cease to be an animal? When it is dead?

When it is wrapped in plastic packaging in the freezer? When it is served, fully cooked?

A judge should decide what the Legislature intended “animal” to mean in the statute, he said. “And the only clear point to draw the line in that definition, I believe, is the point of death.”

Assistant District Attorney James Boughner said the court can use a dictionary to determine the meaning of the word, but it doesn’t have to.

“The common and ordinary meaning of a word can be found in how people actually use the word,” Boughner wrote in his response to the motion.

When a person’s pet dog dies, he told Lucci, the person still refers to the dog as his or her dog, not a carcass.

“It stays a dog for some time,” Boughner said.

He referred to the criminal complaint, in which Hathaway told police he saw the dead deer in the ditch and moved it into the woods. Hathaway called it a dead deer, Boughner said, not a carcass.

“It did not lose its essence as a deer, an animal, when it died,” he said.

Anderson argued that the statute, which falls under the heading “crimes against sexual morality,” was meant to protect animals. That would be unnecessary in the case of a dead animal.

“If you look at the other crimes that are in this subsection, they all protect against something other than simply things we don’t like or things we find disgusting,” he said.

Other crimes in that subsection include incest, bigamy, public fornication and lewd and lascivious behavior.

Boughner said the focus of the statute was on punishing the human behavior, not protecting animals.

“It does not seem to draw a line between the living and the dead,” he said.

Interpreting the statute to exclude dead animals would also exclude freshly killed animals, Boughner said. That, he said, could lead to people who commit such acts with animals to kill them.

Lucci said he would render a decision by Hathaway’s next court appearance on Dec. 1.

The misdemeanor charge carries a maximum penalty of nine months in jail and a fine of up to $10,000. If convicted, Hathaway could serve a prison term of up to two years because of a previous conviction. In April 2005, Hathaway pleaded no contest to one felony charge of mistreatment of an animal for the shooting death of Bambrick, a 26-year-old horse, to have sex with the animal.

Brieannas21 · 12-08-2006, 02:08 PM

That's one sick sick sick man. They should lock him away in someones mental hospital than in prison. He has some serious issues he need to deal with.

Ireneparalegal · 12-08-2006, 02:20 PM

If having sex with a dead deer is not a crime, then the lawyer should allow that defendant to have sex with HIM!

Derek from NY · 12-08-2006, 06:15 PM

Last I checked, necrophilia was a crime(except in Wisconsin).

lilhave · 12-08-2006, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek from NY

Last I checked, necrophilia was a crime(except in Wisconsin).

You mean, Ed Gein, the "butcher of Plainfield"?. Now there was a sicko. Way back in the mid 50's and it made headlines right here in New York.

Ireneparalegal · 12-08-2006, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek from NY

Last I checked, necrophilia was a crime(except in Wisconsin).

Necrophelia doesn't apply to animals, only humans.

Lex Luthor · 12-08-2006, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ireneparalegal

Necrophelia doesn't apply to animals, only humans.

I was not sure on that one from a legal aspect but doesn't the term refer to sexual attraction to dead "things". Either way this guy needs some SERIOUS help.

A dead deer, in broad daylight, in public. Isn't having sex in public regardless of the partner (term used very loosely here) not illegal.

Guy needs a straight jacket and rubber room for awhile.

Derek from NY · 12-08-2006, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ireneparalegal

Necrophelia doesn't apply to animals, only humans.

I don't see what the difference is. It's sick whatever way you look at it.

Ireneparalegal · 12-08-2006, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek from NY

I don't see what the difference is. It's sick whatever way you look at it.

I agree. However, there is a big difference between sex with a human being that is ALIVE and sex with an animal, whether that animal is DEAD OR NOT.

Courtnee · 12-08-2006, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ireneparalegal

Necrophelia doesn't apply to animals, only humans.

I think he means beastiality

I am Roboto · 12-09-2006, 09:11 AM

Reminds me of the guy in California who killed a horse by having sex wtih it while he was drunk. Luckily he's in prison.

Czas na Zywiec · 12-09-2006, 02:52 PM

I remember watching one of those "Caught on Camera" specials on FOX a few years ago. This one guy who was working the graveyard shift in a pinata factory was caught having sex with one of the pinatas because apparently he got himself "stuck" on some metal spring and had to call the fire department to come over and set him free.

lilhave · 12-09-2006, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ireneparalegal

I agree. However, there is a big difference between sex with a human being that is ALIVE and sex with an animal, whether that animal is DEAD OR NOT.

It's a way of life for the Gauchos on the Pampas in Argentina. As revolting as it sounds, it's the cowboys and their sheep.

Harvey

Czas na Zywiec · 12-09-2006, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilhave

It's a way of life for the Gauchos on the Pampas in Argentina. As revolting as it sounds, it's the cowboys and their sheep.

Harvey

Same with cowboys in Wyoming. Their state motto is "Wyoming - Where men are men...and the sheep are scared."

~LadyJess~ · 12-09-2006, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Czas na Zywiec

I remember watching one of those "Caught on Camera" specials on FOX a few years ago. This one guy who was working the graveyard shift in a pinata factory was caught having sex with one of the pinatas because apparently he got himself "stuck" on some metal spring and had to call the fire department to come over and set him free.

Omg, that's great. Can't say that I will ever look at pinatas the same way again though.

12-08-2006, 01:42 PM	#1
lilhave Member Senior Member Join Date: Jul 03, 2004 Location: N.Y.C. Posts: 2,294	Good Grief Lawyer argues sex with dead deer not crime MARIA LOCKWOOD, SUPERIOR DAILY TELEGRAM Nov. 16, 2006 Prosecution of a Douglas County case involving alleged sexual contact with a dead deer may hinge on the legal definition of the word “animal.” Bryan James Hathaway, 20, of Superior faces a misdemeanor charge of sexual gratification with an animal. He is accused of having sex with a dead deer he saw beside Stinson Avenue on Oct. 11. A motion filed last week by his attorney, public defender Fredric Anderson, argued that because the deer was dead, it was not considered an animal and the charge should be dismissed. “The statute does not prohibit one from having sex with a carcass,” Anderson wrote. Judge Michael Lucci heard the motion Tuesday. “I’m a little surprised this issue hasn’t been tackled before in another case,” Lucci said. The Webster’s dictionary defines “animal” as “any of a kingdom of living beings,” Anderson said. If you include carcasses in that definition, he said, “you really go down a slippery slope with absurd results.” Anderson argued: When does a turkey cease to be an animal? When it is dead? When it is wrapped in plastic packaging in the freezer? When it is served, fully cooked? A judge should decide what the Legislature intended “animal” to mean in the statute, he said. “And the only clear point to draw the line in that definition, I believe, is the point of death.” Assistant District Attorney James Boughner said the court can use a dictionary to determine the meaning of the word, but it doesn’t have to. “The common and ordinary meaning of a word can be found in how people actually use the word,” Boughner wrote in his response to the motion. When a person’s pet dog dies, he told Lucci, the person still refers to the dog as his or her dog, not a carcass. “It stays a dog for some time,” Boughner said. He referred to the criminal complaint, in which Hathaway told police he saw the dead deer in the ditch and moved it into the woods. Hathaway called it a dead deer, Boughner said, not a carcass. “It did not lose its essence as a deer, an animal, when it died,” he said. Anderson argued that the statute, which falls under the heading “crimes against sexual morality,” was meant to protect animals. That would be unnecessary in the case of a dead animal. “If you look at the other crimes that are in this subsection, they all protect against something other than simply things we don’t like or things we find disgusting,” he said. Other crimes in that subsection include incest, bigamy, public fornication and lewd and lascivious behavior. Boughner said the focus of the statute was on punishing the human behavior, not protecting animals. “It does not seem to draw a line between the living and the dead,” he said. Interpreting the statute to exclude dead animals would also exclude freshly killed animals, Boughner said. That, he said, could lead to people who commit such acts with animals to kill them. Lucci said he would render a decision by Hathaway’s next court appearance on Dec. 1. The misdemeanor charge carries a maximum penalty of nine months in jail and a fine of up to $10,000. If convicted, Hathaway could serve a prison term of up to two years because of a previous conviction. In April 2005, Hathaway pleaded no contest to one felony charge of mistreatment of an animal for the shooting death of Bambrick, a 26-year-old horse, to have sex with the animal.
	__________________ My List http://www.freewebs.com/lilhave/index.htm

12-08-2006, 02:20 PM	#3
Ireneparalegal LEGAL SPICE ;) Forum Legend Join Date: Jul 25, 2005 Location: OXNARD, CA - WHERE THE DALLAS COWBOYS TRAIN & PRACTICE Posts: 38,691	If having sex with a dead deer is not a crime, then the lawyer should allow that defendant to have sex with HIM!
	__________________ DALLAS COWBOYS ARE HERE AT TRAINING CAMP!!!

12-08-2006, 06:15 PM	#4
Derek from NY Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Oct 31, 2006 Posts: 88	Last I checked, necrophilia was a crime(except in Wisconsin).
	__________________ Derek's quotes: "Looks like Mom fed you well"- After I saw my friend for the first time in 3 years after he grew to 6'6" "Michael Jordan and Ron Jeremy have one thing in common. They both take it to the hole." "Welcome to the twilight zone."- 9/11 "M-O-N-E-Y"- After my dad couldn't figure out why Ben Wallace left the Pistons for the Bulls "No smaller than yours"-After my friend asked how big Mini Me's gun was

12-09-2006, 09:11 AM	#11
I am Roboto wtfmate Forum 4000 Club Member Join Date: Jul 17, 2003 Location: Virginia Posts: 4,224	Reminds me of the guy in California who killed a horse by having sex wtih it while he was drunk. Luckily he's in prison.
	__________________ Chris.

12-08-2006, 02:08 PM	#2
Brieannas21 Member Forum Fanatic Join Date: Apr 05, 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 9,792	That's one sick sick sick man. They should lock him away in someones mental hospital than in prison. He has some serious issues he need to deal with.

12-09-2006, 02:52 PM	#12
Czas na Zywiec what up Forum Star Join Date: Jun 28, 2001 Location: Southwest Side, Chicago Posts: 18,398	I remember watching one of those "Caught on Camera" specials on FOX a few years ago. This one guy who was working the graveyard shift in a pinata factory was caught having sex with one of the pinatas because apparently he got himself "stuck" on some metal spring and had to call the fire department to come over and set him free.